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Christianity - the real target of hate in gay issue

Montalban

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JustineCredible said:
Let us not also forget the words of Rev. Fred Phelps of the Westboro Baptist Church: "God hates F*gs"

I think it would be fair to say "God detests sin", rather than "sinner"
 

Shamgar

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MikeyC said:
No, Christianity isn't a target because a Christian Church can still deny any marriage they choose. It's the government that shouldn't have the ability to deny a homosexual marriage.

Oh comrade your infiltrators are spreading your hate in the church . . . .

Acts 20: 29 For I know this, that after my departure grievous wolves shall enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also from your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

. . . as no Christina chiurch even considered a gay marriage until your hate groups started spreading hate for Christianity in the form of "equal rights" for the God haters called homosexuals . . . .

Montalban said:
I think it would be fair to say "God detests sin", rather than "sinner"

Chapter and verse to back your smooth words please . . .

Isaiah 30: 9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD: 10 Who say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not to us right things, speak to us smooth things, prophesy deceits: 11 Withdraw from the way, turn aside from the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us. 12 Therefore thus saith the Holy One of Israel, Because ye despise this word, and trust in oppression and perverseness, and relied on them: {oppression: or, fraud} 13 Therefore this iniquity shall be to you as a breach ready to fall, swelling out in a high wall, whose breaking cometh suddenly at an instant. 14 And he shall break it as the breaking of the potter's vessel that is broken in pieces; he shall not spare: so that there shall not be found in the bursting of it a piece to take fire from the hearth, or to take water out of the pit. {the potters'...: Heb. the bottle of potters}
 

MikeyC

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Shamgar said:
Oh comrade your infiltrators are spreading your hate in the church . . . .
My infiltrators? I have an army of people that enter the church with me or something and spread hate? I don't understand how allowing Christians to practice their way, and others to practice theirown way is in any way "hate". For the most part, I respect the teachings of the church, just not the teachings that you've been preaching. I have no interest in changing church beliefs...Maybe the only threat to Church beliefs is the truth and doubt, something I do spread, though I wouldn't go into a church to do it because that's just disprespectful. You still haven't proved that the Bible is a historical document, you still haven't responded to my explanation of why virgin birth is impossible, you haven't explained how I hate everything. All I see are scriptures which you haven't proven are actually the words of God...
 

JustineCredible

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Montalban said:
I think it would be fair to say "God detests sin", rather than "sinner"

Montalban; You know I never noticed before, when you used to post on 4forums.com, that you were as unversed in American Political radicals. Why, if you are so unaware, why do you bother trying to comment on it? That really is a bit distrubing.
 

Shamgar

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MikeyC said:
My infiltrators? I have an army of people that enter the church with me or something and spread hate? I don't understand how allowing Christians to practice their way, and others to practice theirown way is in any way "hate". For the most part, I respect the teachings of the church, just not the teachings that you've been preaching. I have no interest in changing church beliefs...Maybe the only threat to Church beliefs is the truth and doubt, something I do spread, though I wouldn't go into a church to do it because that's just disprespectful.

Oh but you poison the minds of people with your hate speech and they bring that hate speech into the church to spread that hate speech . . . .

 

JustineCredible

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Shamgar said:
Oh but you poison the minds of people with your hate speech and they bring that hate speech into the church to spread that hate speech . . . .



Whoa there Nelly. Who brings what into who's church? Jerry Falwell brings hate speech into the Christian church and dares to call himself a Christian. Pat Robertson out and out lies, yet dares to call himself a Christian.
James Bakker brought the same lies into the Christian church yet still attempted to call himself a Christian.
It would seem to the casual observer that Christians themselves bring lies and hate into the Christian church, not the gays. Most of us try to stay out of your so-called Christian churches.
When we are called abominations, detestable, sinners, liars, fornicators...all because of mans laws and when those man made laws are then twisted into a supposed "God's law", it's quite evident that we are not welcome in the hypocritical Christian Church.
 

MikeyC

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Shamgar said:
Oh but you poison the minds of people with your hate speech and they bring that hate speech into the church to spread that hate speech . . . .

I don't even discuss religious beliefs with my Christian friends because I am able to respect their beliefs. You are the only Christian I've discussed religion with, that I've actually had to prove my own beliefs. I respect people who have faith in Christianity. I don't respect those who use Christianity for intolerance. I guess it would be reasonable for a Christian to say I have faith in science and that there is a God. You cite scriptures, Shamgar and call them irrefutable. I respect people who understand that the their belief that the Bible is truly the word of God is based on faith, not scientifically provable facts. You poison the minds of everyone on this board with ideas of intolerance and that your interpretation is the only interpretation of God' s words. On these boards I have given reasons why I support Deism, and you have given reasons why you have faith in the Bible. But you can't accept that other beliefs have reason to exist, as well as your own. You are an unreasonable person who accepts nothing but what you think God said. You can't prove God exists any better than I can. Again, people claim to have seen UFO's more often than God's word is claimed to have been heard in that Bible of yours. Your beliefs will and should be attacked because I think ideas of intolerance have no place in society. BTW, I'm not trying to invade the Kingdom of Heaven like your cartoon implies. I'll be honest, I don't know if there is an afterlife, but if there is, I'm sure everybody gets to enter it as equals.
 

Shamgar

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MikeyC said:
I don't even discuss religious beliefs with my Christian friends because I am able to respect their beliefs.

Of course that is a lie since humanism is your religion and you have been spewing it here on each an every post . . . .as you do throughout your everyday life . . .

hu·man·ism n.

1. A system of thought that centers on humans and their values, capacities, and worth.
2. Concern with the interests, needs, and welfare of humans: “the newest flower on the vine of corporate humanism” (Savvy).
3. Medicine. The concept that concern for human interests, values, and dignity is of the utmost importance to the care of the sick.
4. The study of the humanities; learning in the liberal arts.
5. Humanism A cultural and intellectual movement of the Renaissance that emphasized secular concerns as a result of the rediscovery and study of the literature, art, and civilization of ancient Greece and Rome.

MikeyC said:
But you can't accept that other beliefs have reason to exist, as well as your own. You are an unreasonable person who accepts nothing but what you think God said. You can't prove God exists any better than I can. Again, people claim to have seen UFO's more often than God's word is claimed to have been heard in that Bible of yours. Your beliefs will and should be attacked because I think ideas of intolerance have no place in society.

Funny God seems to be intolerant to other people's religions, beliefs, forms of governments, lifestyles, etc . . . . . and it appears He attacked people who promoted "tolerance" which God called . . . .EVIL!

MikeyC said:
BTW, I'm not trying to invade the Kingdom of Heaven like your cartoon implies. I'll be honest, I don't know if there is an afterlife, but if there is, I'm sure everybody gets to enter it as equals.

One the day of wailing and gnashing of teeth you will find out your theory was just an unsubstantiated claim . . . . . but that see to be your nature . . . unsubstantiated claims . . . .
 

V.I. Lenin

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I love it. Yes you Christians and your religion, under constant attack. Such underdogs. Your religion is hated by so many and has so few followers I don't even know how you're still around!

I do hope someday you'll be a large religion, perhaps the biggest in the USA if you believe enough! And maybe you'll have a Pro-Christian president someday. Goodness, I can only hope.
 

shuamort

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Shamgar said:
One the day of wailing and gnashing of teeth you will find out your theory was just an unsubstantiated claim . . . . . but that see to be your nature . . . unsubstantiated claims . . . .
Really? I think we're all still waiting for your unsubstantiated claims that science has proven that there is a god.
 

MikeyC

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I'd like you to prove that it's possible to defy the laws of physics. IE. Jesus walking on water.
 

shuamort

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MikeyC said:
I'd like you to prove that it's possible to defy the laws of physics. IE. Jesus walking on water.
Come to Minnesota in February :mrgreen:
 

Shye

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shuamort said:
Come to Minnesota in February :mrgreen:


haha good one
 

JustineCredible

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shuamort said:
Come to Minnesota in February :mrgreen:


I saw a bumpersticker just today that read: "Next time you think you're perfect, try walking on water." I thought to myself; "Sure, wait 'til it freezes over."
 

Montalban

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V.I. Lenin said:
I love it. Yes you Christians and your religion, under constant attack. Such underdogs. Your religion is hated by so many and has so few followers I don't even know how you're still around!

I do hope someday you'll be a large religion, perhaps the biggest in the USA if you believe enough! And maybe you'll have a Pro-Christian president someday. Goodness, I can only hope.

You're doing your clown impersionation again.

Christianity lives on. Communism is dead.
 

shh!

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V.I. Lenin said:
I love it. Yes you Christians and your religion, under constant attack. Such underdogs. Your religion is hated by so many and has so few followers I don't even know how you're still around!

I do hope someday you'll be a large religion, perhaps the biggest in the USA if you believe enough! And maybe you'll have a Pro-Christian president someday. Goodness, I can only hope.

Hahaha! Saying Christianity is under constant attack and is somehow threatened reminds me of the Klu Klux Klan saying that white people are threatened by blacks, or anti-Semites claiming they are threatened by Jews who want to take over the world. Utter stupidity and paranoia. And I would sure love to be able to have a rational conversation about civil rights without bible scripture being thrown around....
 

Shamgar

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shh! said:
Hahaha! And I would sure love to be able to have a rational conversation about civil rights without bible scripture being thrown around....

How could you have this "rational" conversation since you would be involved? :lol: :lol:
 

Pacridge

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shh! said:
Hahaha! Saying Christianity is under constant attack and is somehow threatened reminds me of the Klu Klux Klan saying that white people are threatened by blacks, or anti-Semites claiming they are threatened by Jews who want to take over the world. Utter stupidity and paranoia. And I would sure love to be able to have a rational conversation about civil rights without bible scripture being thrown around....

Christians are an oppressed majority. Don't you realize that?
 

Shamgar

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Pacridge said:
Christians are an oppressed majority. Don't you realize that?

Hardly the majority when your kind have had your propagandists promoting your God hating venom in the churchs for years. . . .they just put little sheep costumes over the wolf hide. . .
 
S

sebastiansdreams

JustineCredible said:
Clear? Give me a break, the man spoke in parables half the time! Honey, parables are stories which are highly subjective. I've noticed you have quite the issue with subjective and direct in many of your arguments.
Okay Justine, assuming you believed in God, what about the message of salvation are you not understanding?
Parables are not subjective, they are applicable. There is a difference. In parables the final message is not nogitiable. Parables were a very simplified version of a complex issue, so that his audience (the illiterate and naive) of that time could better understand them, as they were they were told in cotenct of application. There's nothing subjective about any of it, but rather, it allows for applicability throughout the centuries (if you dissagree give me a parable and I'll gladly show you).
 

Naughty Nurse

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Shamgar said:
Hardly the majority when your kind have had your propagandists promoting your God hating venom in the churchs for years. . . .they just put little sheep costumes over the wolf hide. . .

Oh, puh-leeze!
 
S

sebastiansdreams

JustineCredible said:
The sun rising and setting was considered a miracle until science proved that our galaxy revolves around the sun and not the other way around.

All miracles you infer will one day be understood by science. Does this diminish their incredible impact, no. But are they miracles? Not really.

Unexplained remission of cancer is just that, unexplained. It seems like a miracle simply because we don't understand the science of it as of yet.

Sweetie, birth was considered a "medical miracle" until science figured out how it all worked.
Or do you not know the history of it's misunderstanding which actually allowed Henry VIII to behead Anne Boleyn because she couldn't bear him a son? They didn't know back then that it was actually Henry's fault that he didn't have but one sickly son. They didn't know the science of genetics, we still don't fully understand all of it even today.
But we have a much better understanding of it than we did five hundred years ago.
But no one is suggesting that these miracles exist outside of the laws of nature, only that they are not understood or are some how utilized by its creator. Jesus walking on water sounds impossible to us, but if he is in fact the Son of the Creator, then is it impossible that he can manipulate nature to His own bidding, or that God cannot manipulate these laws at our sincere request? And just so you know, some of us still consider a sunrise miraculous. The very idea that the entire universe could be under such strictly defined laws and could function in the way it does, is in and of itself, unexplainable and miraculous.
 

MikeyC

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The problem is, if you manipulate these laws, then the universe falls apart. We are in a very delicate balance and I feel that God has to abide by his own rules. Or at the very least, understands the consequences of breaking his rules. One of the reasons I believe there is a God is because everything works in such perfect balance, but I also feel he doesn't interefere in our lives or offer us eternal salvation if we read and follow a book written by men. But at least I respect your position as opposed to Shamgar's because you seem to understand that your beliefs are guided by faith, as our mine I suppose in science.
 
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