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Christianity - the real target of hate in gay issue

MikeyC

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Shamgar said:
No irony. Christianity is the victim of the God haters called homosexuals and their supporters. Hate and intolerance is from the God haters who hate the word of God and are intolertant to God's people.



Toleracne is the buzzword used by the God haters to promote their hateful messages.

You are a God hater apparently. I'd say you hate my God. Can't you accept that people love their own God? Live your life according the the virtues and teachings of your God and let us non-Christians love our God(s) in our own way. We are not God haters for having our own beliefs. Maybe according to your God we are God haters, but as a person in a diverse culture, you should accept that not everybody is Christian. And if you cannot, then I suppose you are a Christian Dominionist out to establish the Theocratic States of America. Tolerance is a good word. It means the willingness to accept things, even if they are different. Who has preached tolerance in the name of a hateful message? Just because it's not Christian doesn't make it evil or hateful.
 
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Dogger807

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Shamgar said:
No irony. Christianity is the victim of the God haters called homosexuals and their supporters. Hate and intolerance is from the God haters who hate the word of God and are intolertant to God's people.



Toleracne is the buzzword used by the God haters to promote their hateful messages.


once again you try to play the victim.

To you, someone who doesn't share your view must hate God, no middle ground. So this gives you the right to treat them less.

Well sir know this, evil done in the name of religion is still evil. Hate preached in the name of religion is still hate.
 

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dogger807 said:
once again you try to play the victim.

To you, someone who doesn't share your view must hate God, no middle ground. So this gives you the right to treat them less.

Well sir know this, evil done in the name of religion is still evil. Hate preached in the name of religion is still hate.
Well since my view is from the Scriptures and what I quoted was from the Scriptures it appears you are the one who does not share the views of God . . .which of course make you a God hater. And according to your definition good (excluding homosexuals from the kingdomof heaven) is evil and evil (giving equal rights to homosexuals as Christians) is good then you are a God hater.

Isaiah 5: 20 Woe to them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! {call...: Heb. say concerning evil, It is good, etc}

btw if anyone claiming to be a Christian does compromise and come to the middle ground . . . rest assured they are a pseudochristian . . . as there is no middle ground . . . not an inch of ground given. . . period!
 
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shuamort

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Shamgar said:
Well since my view is from the Scriptures and what I quoted was from the Scriptures it appears you are the one who does not share the views of God . . .which of course make you a God hater. And according to your definition good (excluding homosexuals from the kingdomof heaven) is evil and evil (giving equal rights to homosexuals as Christians) is good then you are a God hater.

Isaiah 5: 20 Woe to them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! {call...: Heb. say concerning evil, It is good, etc}

btw if anyone claiming to be a Christian does compromise and come to the middle ground . . . rest assured they are a pseudochristian . . . as there is no middle ground . . . not an inch of ground given. . . period!
I guess it's safe to assume that if you're against slavery, you're against scripture and you're against god. How's that working for you?
 

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Shamgar said:
Well since my view is from the Scriptures and what I quoted was from the Scriptures it appears you are the one who does not share the views of God . . .which of course make you a God hater. And according to your definition good (excluding homosexuals from the kingdomof heaven) is evil and evil (giving equal rights to homosexuals as Christians) is good then you are a God hater.

Isaiah 5: 20 Woe to them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! {call...: Heb. say concerning evil, It is good, etc}

btw if anyone claiming to be a Christian does compromise and come to the middle ground . . . rest assured they are a pseudochristian . . . as there is no middle ground . . . not an inch of ground given. . . period!

Well considering that the scriptures you use to validate your view are one of the greatest evils ever created by man it is obvious that we two can not even agree to disagree. We see each other as the greatest threat to modern society.

You are an uncompromising theist where as I am an educated atheist.

Quite frankly I don't care what you believe. The problem arises when you force your views on others to the point where the views of others are innately evil.

We don't even have a common foundation agreed upon to conduct an intelligent argument. So for the sake of argument I will address your deity as if I believed in his existence on the fundamental level that you do.

Get off your rear you sadistic tyrant. You started something centuries ago with half answers and riddles starting the worst line of cruelty in your name.
Since you exist and you claim to be a caring and loving entity then you owe us, as sentient beings , proof of your will and proof that you are truly good. We are not toys to be played with and then tossed away because we don't follow your rules. Such an attitude is malicious and demeaning. Yes your all powerful but that doesn't make you always right. First you say we have free will then you establish a bunch of contractor little blurbs and expect us to find a good and responsible path. Satan had a darn good reason to repel against you didn't he? You tell us you will make us accountable for or actions when you won't for your or those who follow you.



Well.. if you are gonna call me a God hater.. I might as well play the part.

There now I guaranteed my ticket to hell.. whew what a relief. I've seen those who think they are going to heaven and I want no part of them for eternity.

But I've allowed you to distract me from the tread's original claim once again.
An attack against christianity is not what the "gay agenda" is about. (and no I'm not gay.. see I interject the standard homophobic disclaimer.) It's nothing more than a group of people demanding their right to be treated as equals no mater their view or religious preference, or for that mater their sexual preference.
 

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dogger807 said:
We see each other as the greatest threat to modern society.
I wouldn't say you are the greatest but you certainly have competition for first place.

dogger807 said:
You are an uncompromising theist where as I am an educated atheist.
Oh compromise = educated. Now that is a funny fallacy. But then again I am sure you are full of funny fallacies.




dogger807 said:
Quite frankly I don't care what you believe. The problem arises when you force your views on others to the point where the views of others are innately evil.
Well since you are an unrighteous judge you have no clue what is good or evil.



dogger807 said:
We don't even have a common foundation agreed upon to conduct an intelligent argument. So for the sake of argument I will address your deity as if I believed in his existence on the fundamental level that you do.
Oh you want me to "debate" on your foundation of "knowedge" which of course is cobbled together from a variety of pagan civilizations. Sorry not falling into that trap. I don't worship the philosophy of false gods like you do.

1 Tim 6: 20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: {science: Gr. knowledge} 21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen. The first to Timothy was written from Laodicea, which is the chiefest city of Phrygia Pacatiana.

1 Cor 1: 19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For when in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

dogger807 said:
Get off your rear you sadistic tyrant. You started something centuries ago with half answers and riddles starting the worst line of cruelty in your name. Since you exist and you claim to be a caring and loving entity then you owe us, as sentient beings , proof of your will and proof that you are truly good. We are not toys to be played with and then tossed away because we don't follow your rules. Such an attitude is malicious and demeaning. Yes your all powerful but that doesn't make you always right. First you say we have free will then you establish a bunch of contractor little blurbs and expect us to find a good and responsible path. Satan had a darn good reason to repel against you didn't he? You tell us you will make us accountable for or actions when you won't for your or those who follow you.
Well it is understandable you don't like the rule since you don't like the one making the rules . . . God. However, God was here before you and He didn't make the place for you but for the vessels of mercy. . . Christians. However since you hate God so much and are intolerate to His people you want THEM to compromise their beliefs and bow down to your demands . . .not going to happen. God rules not you.



Romans 9: 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? By no means. 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy. 17 For the scripture saith to Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might show my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18 Therefore he hath mercy on whom he will have mercy , and whom he will he hardeneth. 19 Thou wilt say then to me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it , Why hast thou made me thus? {repliest...: or, answerest again, or, disputest with God?} 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel to honour, and another to dishonour? 22 What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: {fitted: or, made up} 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had before prepared for glory, 24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

dogger807 said:
But I've allowed you to distract me from the tread's original claim once again.
An attack against christianity is not what the "gay agenda" is about. (and no I'm not gay.. see I interject the standard homophobic disclaimer.) It's nothing more than a group of people demanding their right to be treated as equals no mater their view or religious preference, or for that mater their sexual preference.
Don't worry the supporters of God haters have the same fate.

Rom 1: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they who commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. {have...: or, consent with}
 

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Shamgar said:
Oh you want me to "debate" on your foundation of "knowedge" which of course is cobbled together from a variety of pagan civilizations. Sorry not falling into that trap. I don't worship the philosophy of false gods like you do.
HAHAHAHA!That's the funniest thing I've ever heard. Christianity is an amalgam of other mythologies. I think you've really tipped your hand on the shallow depth of knowledge you have about Christianity. Snerk!
 

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shuamort said:
HAHAHAHA!That's the funniest thing I've ever heard. Christianity is an amalgam of other mythologies. I think you've really tipped your hand on the shallow depth of knowledge you have about Christianity. Snerk!
See another fallacy you would have to prove that Christianity is a myth or untrue. To do that you would have to prove that God does NOT exist. You have that proof? Your answer is of course "No!" See I knew you guys were full of funny fallacies.
 

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Shamgar said:
See another fallacy you would have to prove that Christianity is a myth or untrue. To do that you would have to prove that God does NOT exist. You have that proof? Your answer is of course "No!" See I knew you guys were full of funny fallacies.
That makes no sense. I could prove Christianity is an amalgam of myths without having to prove or disprove the existance of a deity.

Mithraism is pre-mythology to Christianity where its adherents believed:

Virgin birth
Twelve followers
Killing and resurrection
Miracles
Birthdate on December 25
Morality
Mankind's savior
Known as the Light of the world

Sounds like a copywrite problem right there!
 

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Virgin births are impossible. You need a sperm. I suppose a laboratory birth may accomlish this, but this only exception doesn't really apply to the birth of Jesus. God would have to be a man, why would an omnipotent being have a sex? It takes over a billion years for a sex to develope on a planet. Jesus was really born 6BC, because the celestial event that occured at his birth occured closest to 6BC, not 1AD. Astromomers proved that. Christianity is not innately good. As I recall the Pope sanctioned wars against Muslims (Crusades). Do Christians believe they have the right to kill anyone who will not enter their Kingdom of Heaven? You Shmgar are a Christian Dominionist and go against all the ideals of our founding fathers. Our nation ideals have been tolerance and acceptance. You have made it clear you have no tolerance of anything other than your interpretation of Chrstianity. An extreme interpretation to say the least. I was raised Catholic and I could have sworn when I had a Christian relationship with God that tolerance was a good virtue for Christians. I believe God exists, but I believe God is the creator and nothing more. God created the laws of nature and does not interfere in our lives. The Bible stories are for the most part, no more believable than UFO sightings you see on TV. Moses can't part the Red Sea because a man cannot act outside the laws of nature. That can be explained by different winds coming to the Red Sea to part it, still an amazing story, but much more believable than "God did it." Jesus couldn't walk on water. It's just impossible. God couldn't have made the Ten Commandmants because how would an omnipotent being defy his own laws and magically create something? Sounds Harry-Potter'ish to me. Jesus turned water to wine? Last I recall, that's also impossible unless Jesus had some very powerful chemicals up his sleeve. You are also unable to prove that souls exist. And don't say I can't prove they don't exist because that's where you get in the argument of just having faith. You believe because of your faith one way. I believe another way because of my faith. This is why you should respect all faiths.
 

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once again Shamgar you exemplify that christianity is not the victim here but the intolerant aggressor. All you do is rationalize your aggression. We let religion rule the world once and we know that time as the dark ages.

There is no difference in your point of view than that of the islamic sects that preach women are object. Just a different man made religion with a different set of rules. Your persecution of "God haters" is just a Jihad by a different name.
 

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MikeyC said:
Virgin births are impossible.
You have scientific proof that God cannot create a virgin birth?


galenrox said:
I beg to differ. In my church (which is christian), our rector is gay, as is about half of our clergy.
Being Christian in name doesn't equate to being Christian accroding to Scriptures. You are nothing more then a den of wolves.

Acts 20: 29 For I know this, that after my departure grievous wolves shall enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also from your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.




shuamort said:
That makes no sense. I could prove Christianity is an amalgam of myths without having to prove or disprove the existance of a deity.
Okay you concede God exists. The Scriptures are the dictates of God along with the history of God' people. Therefore it is not a myth since there is a record history of fact. Fact is not myth. You lose.


dogger807 said:
once again Shamgar you exemplify that christianity is not the victim here but the intolerant aggressor. All you do is rationalize your aggression. We let religion rule the world once and we know that time as the dark ages.
Of course it is the ONLY victim. . . it is the only one asked to compromise it's very beliefs. So it is the homosexuals and their supporters which are the intolerant aggressors.

dogger807 said:
There is no difference in your point of view than that of the islamic sects that preach women are object. Just a different man made religion with a different set of rules. Your persecution of "God haters" is just a Jihad by a different name.
Oh see another fallacy like "compromise=education" . . . now we have "Islam view = Christianity view" You are so full of fallacies. I was wondering are you going to bring any facts or just fallacies? Oh but God said to persecute God haters . . .

 

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dogger807 said:
once again Shamgar you exemplify that christianity is not the victim here but the intolerant aggressor. All you do is rationalize your aggression. We let religion rule the world once and we know that time as the dark ages.

There is no difference in your point of view than that of the islamic sects that preach women are object. Just a different man made religion with a different set of rules. Your persecution of "God haters" is just a Jihad by a different name.

(note, this post is NOT a disagreement with the above statements...as a matter of fact, I agree completely here.)


What's worse is that not all who disagree with Sham "hate" God.
I don't hate God, I hate the distortion of what God means. I don't attend church because I don't think anyone knows my personal relationship with God nor do I feel they have a right to tell me how to worship.
What's worse is when there is a clearly secular government which allows the Church to tell it how to govern.
That disgusts me.
I am an AMERICAN, I was born an American and am proud of my citizenship under a SECULAR government.
I chose to serve this country because I believed in it's secular government and the concept of seperation between Church and State. My religious beliefs are my own. They are NOT up for debate or discussion.
I do not come here to debate or discuss my beliefs, nor do I want the beliefs of others thrown in my face. Let alone wanting to be judged for my beliefs because they may differ from someone else's.
What I find completely insulting is Sham's absolute inability to respect his fellow citizens of the natural world by keeping his religious beliefs to himself.
 

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The Bible is only a collection of words, and is no more or less holy or inherently factually accurate than your own words on this website. To create the necessary 2nd portion of DNA Mary's egg would have needed, it would have needed to have been put in their some way. As a woman, Mary is not capable of creating this 2nd portion of DNA and it can't be proven that you can create something out of nothing. God would have needed to create something out of nothing to put this DNA into Mary.

-Edit- I guess I was writing at the same time as JustineCredible. I agree with your statements 100%.
 
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Shamgar said:
You have scientific proof that God cannot create a virgin birth?
Do you have scientific proof of God? Do you have proof that I can't put your god in a bundt cake and eat him?


Shamgar said:
Okay you concede God exists.
The hell? Where did I concede that?


Shamgar said:
The Scriptures are the dictates of God along with the history of God' people.
It's a book. Like Stephen King's "Christine" or Dan Brown's "the Da Vinci Code". Yes, they're based in reality in the fact that there are cars, people, a Mona Lisa et al, but they're all works of fiction.

Shamgar said:
Therefore it is not a myth since there is a record history of fact. Fact is not myth. You lose.
Therefore? Where are you getting the therefore from? You can't just say that since the Bible exists that it proves all of the things contained in it. You have to prove it outside of the Bible. And so far, nope. Hasn't happened. After 2000+ years, no proof of an immaculate conception, a burning bush, a parting sea, the scientific impossibility of a global flood, etc.

You can no more prove the existance of God than I can prove the existance of an Invisible Pink Unicorn, or kissing Hank's butt.
 

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QUOTE=Shamgar]


Oh see another fallacy like "compromise=education" . . . now we have "Islam view = Christianity view" You are so full of fallacies. I was wondering are you going to bring any facts or just fallacies? Oh but God said to persecute God haters . . .

[/QUOTE]


First.. all of you so called facts are in of themselves debatable and do not meet the definition of such.

Second at no time did I say compromise is equal to education, though in hindsight I would say the two go hand in hand. My statement was that we abose each others views on a very basic level you as an uncompromising fundamentalist who neither considers the right of others to be different from you nor do you have the ability to see your faith from the other point of view so you defend it as if it's truth was fundamentally apparent to all. This brings up the second absolute statement you mistakenly dirive from my postings. Islam view = Christianity view .. I never said nor implied it. I did however draw atention to the similarity between fanatics justifing their actions and beliefs on the sole merit of their religious scriptures. Your views may be different but your execution is very similar.

The only difference in your arguments and theirs is your relgious point of view.

And just in case you missed it ..the bible is not fact.
 
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Shamgar

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dogger807 said:
First.. all of you so called facts are in of themselves debatable and do not meet the definition of such.
Oh that is why you forgot to bring proof to back up your unsubstantiated claims.

dogger807 said:
Second at no time did I say compromise is equal to education, though in hindsight I would say the two go hand in hand.
Oh of course you did when you made the “apples to oranges” comparison here:

dogger807 said:
Post #54 You are an uncompromising theist where as I am an educated atheist.
You sure can stack the deck in your favor that way. . .especially when it is undeserved. . .


dogger807 said:
My statement was that we abose each others views on a very basic level you as an uncompromising fundamentalist who neither considers the right of others to be different from you nor do you have the ability to see your faith from the other point of view so you defend it as if it's truth was fundamentally apparent to all. This brings up the second absolute statement you mistakenly dirive from my postings. Islam view = Christianity view .. I never said nor implied it. I did however draw atention to the similarity between fanatics justifing their actions and beliefs on the sole merit of their religious scriptures. Your views may be different but your execution is very similar. The only difference in your arguments and theirs is your relgious point of view.
Such fallacies . . . certainly we see our faith from the points of view from others. . . we see them hating use for our beliefs. . . which is evidenced from you posts . . . And certainly we consider the rights of others to be different ( you can certainly sin as much as you want) . . . we don't believe we have to fund nor protect such sins . . .

See another fallacy as Christians are not fanatics for a false religion but zealots for a true religion. And we certainly do not need to "justify" our actions as would a false religion since we are commanded by the True God to do those actions. So your comparison is another apples to oranges comparison.

dogger807 said:
And just in case you missed it ..the bible is not fact.
Again, you forgot to bring proof to back up your unsubstantiated claims.
 

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shuamort said:
Do you have scientific proof of God?
Yup. Scinetist have proven the existence of God through their research/observations time and time again.

Romans 1: 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from Heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness,
19 because the thing which may be known of God is clearly revealed within them, for God revealed it to them. 20 For the unseen things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being realized by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, for them to be without excuse. 21 Because, knowing God, they did not glorify Him as God, neither were thankful. But they became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man, and birds, and four-footed animals, and creeping things. 24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves. 25 For they changed the truth of God into a lie, and they worshiped and served the created thing more than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
 

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I do not hate Christians. I do not approve of intolerance. And you missed that whole list of proof of why the Bible is false?
shuamort said:
That makes no sense. I could prove Christianity is an amalgam of myths without having to prove or disprove the existance of a deity.

Mithraism is pre-mythology to Christianity where its adherents believed:

Virgin birth
Twelve followers
Killing and resurrection
Miracles
Birthdate on December 25
Morality
Mankind's savior
Known as the Light of the world

Sounds like a copywrite problem right there!
I believe you failed to read my response about virgin births.

MikeyC said:
The Bible is only a collection of words, and is no more or less holy or inherently factually accurate than your own words on this website. To create the necessary 2nd portion of DNA Mary's egg would have needed, it would have needed to have been put in their some way. As a woman, Mary is not capable of creating this 2nd portion of DNA and it can't be proven that you can create something out of nothing. God would have needed to create something out of nothing to put this DNA into Mary.
Prove to me that anything that happened in the Bible that goes against science could possibly happen. Seriously, prove how Jesus could have walked on water etc...Without proof, I still see all the mysticism in the Bible as something that couldn't happen. Without proof, these stories are no more truthful than the UFO's people claim to have seen. I need proof that the Bible is true. BTW, your above statement doesn't show any use of any acceptable scientific method. It's impossible to prove God exists, but equally impossible to prove He doesn't exist, which is why I go with that he exists as the Creator of the universe, nothing more. I see NO evidence that God interferes in our lives.
 
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Shamgar said:
Yup. Scinetist have proven the existence of God through their research/observations time and time again.
No they haven't. Show your work. Give us 3 examples since you're acting as though they're that common of a scientist proving that there is indeed the existence of God through empirical evidence.
 

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MikeyC said:
I believe you failed to read my response about virgin births.
Your response about how they're impossible? Well, they're impossible using most standards from before, they are possible now. A woman may have a fertilized egg inserted and carry it to term without having sexual intercourse. An immaculate conception on the other hand, where a deity instead of a human inseminates an egg, well that's just silly.

The point of my post re: Mithraism was done to show that Christianity is a piecemeal mythology based on previous myths as was shown in that list which included a virgin birth. (In other words, I'm not supporting any reality about Christianity/virgin birth, just showing that the myth isn't new with the Bible was written).
 

Kelzie

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shuamort said:
No they haven't. Show your work. Give us 3 examples since you're acting as though they're that common of a scientist proving that there is indeed the existence of God through empirical evidence.
I think the scripture was his proof. Makes sense to me :lol: Proving that the bible is fact by quoting the bible...
 

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MikeyC said:
I do not hate Christians. I do not approve of intolerance.

Of course you do since you want them to compromise their beliefs . . . compromising their beliefs would bring the wrath of God down on them . . . and that is exactly what you desire. . .

MikeyC said:
And you missed that whole list of proof of why the Bible is false?
A magical list . . . . . which proved what . . . that it is a list? You forgot the scientific evidence that God could not create a virgin birth. . . .

MikeyC said:
It's impossible to prove God exists, but equally impossible to prove He doesn't exist, which is why I go with that he exists as the Creator of the universe, nothing more. I see NO evidence that God interferes in our lives.
Ah you would have to prove that something is impossible before you could claim it is impossible. And since the SCriptures clearly state it is possible and scientists have proven those facts then you are blowing hot air . . . .
 

shuamort

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Shamgar said:
Ah you would have to prove that something is impossible before you could claim it is impossible. And since the SCriptures clearly state it is possible and scientists have proven those facts then you are blowing hot air . . . .
And Stephen King's "Christine" clearly states it's possible for a car to have a mind to kill on its own. And scientists have proven that cars can kill. So it must be true!

Seriously, you still need to show where scientists have proven with empirical evidence the existence of a god. Show your work.
 

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shuamort said:
And Stephen King's "Christine" clearly states it's possible for a car to have a mind to kill on its own. And scientists have proven that cars can kill. So it must be true!
Yes, a book of fiction proves cars can have a mind to kill . . . . . hahahahahahaha! Yes I can see where you get all your "facts" . . . . books of fiction. . . . you must enjoy your medication.
 
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