Christian Proof-Texting

[Guno]

The claim of Paul and the "New" Testament authors is that Jesus fulfilled many prophecies connected to the Hebrew Scriptures (so-called Old Testament) and a true believer will easily be able to see them. The gospel according to Matthew, in particular, attempts to cross-reference the miraculous birth, deeds and proclamations attributed to Jesus with relevant passages found in Tanach. What are the differences in Christianity vs Judaism?

Closer scrutiny, however, reveals a great conspiracy and tampering of the evidence. Not one verse from Tanach proves the messiahship of Jesus. On the contrary, our Jewish sages, for two millennium have had ample time to analyze and decipher all 22,000+ verses in Tanach, and have concluded that Jesus did not fulfill any of its prophecies, nor are there any passages that unambiguously allude to his life or ministry. On the contrary, we will discover how the New Testament distorts and contorts Tanach to make it “bend” to their a priori agenda to “prove” their beliefs about Jesus. Let’s see!

In a certain way, Fundamentalist missionaries shoot the arrow in the target and then draw the bull’s eye around the arrow. In this fashion, they claim to always be correct, making the evidence conform to their foregone conclusions.

Matthew 1:22-23
What is significant here is not only is this verse being taken out of context, it is also being mistranslated (more examples of this to follow). This verse is the basis for Christian theology concerning the miraculous “Virgin Birth” of Jesus. The manufacture of this myth fits a 1st Century mindset where it was very common amongst pagans to venerate their leaders as being “born of God.” It freed them from the “taint” of being conceived by “sinful” human flesh. It is also one of the main verses that attempt to prove the idea of a corporeal god and the divinity of Jesus from the translation of the name “Immanuel,” as “God with us.”

Jews for Judaism | Christian Proof-Texting

 

[RAMOSS]

The claim of Paul and the "New" Testament authors is that Jesus fulfilled many prophecies connected to the Hebrew Scriptures (so-called Old Testament) and a true believer will easily be able to see them. The gospel according to Matthew, in particular, attempts to cross-reference the miraculous birth, deeds and proclamations attributed to Jesus with relevant passages found in Tanach. What are the differences in Christianity vs Judaism?

Closer scrutiny, however, reveals a great conspiracy and tampering of the evidence. Not one verse from Tanach proves the messiahship of Jesus. On the contrary, our Jewish sages, for two millennium have had ample time to analyze and decipher all 22,000+ verses in Tanach, and have concluded that Jesus did not fulfill any of its prophecies, nor are there any passages that unambiguously allude to his life or ministry. On the contrary, we will discover how the New Testament distorts and contorts Tanach to make it “bend” to their a priori agenda to “prove” their beliefs about Jesus. Let’s see!

In a certain way, Fundamentalist missionaries shoot the arrow in the target and then draw the bull’s eye around the arrow. In this fashion, they claim to always be correct, making the evidence conform to their foregone conclusions.

Matthew 1:22-23
What is significant here is not only is this verse being taken out of context, it is also being mistranslated (more examples of this to follow). This verse is the basis for Christian theology concerning the miraculous “Virgin Birth” of Jesus. The manufacture of this myth fits a 1st Century mindset where it was very common amongst pagans to venerate their leaders as being “born of God.” It freed them from the “taint” of being conceived by “sinful” human flesh. It is also one of the main verses that attempt to prove the idea of a corporeal god and the divinity of Jesus from the translation of the name “Immanuel,” as “God with us.”

Jews for Judaism | Christian Proof-Texting

Many Jewish names have traits of God as their meaning. Isaiah, for example, means 'God is our salvation', and Hezekiah means 'God is our strength' Joshua (which is the English translation of the name Jesus) was a very common name too.

 

[Guno]

Matthew 2:14
This passage is found in the beginning of the gospel of Matthew where we find Joseph, the husband of Mary, fleeing from Herod with his wife and infant son. The writer wants us to identify this event with a verse that seems to refer to a person called “son” – that is, to prove Jesus was called then “son of God.” Matthew also attempts to demonstrate that the passage identifies one detail of the life of Jesus – namely his exile to Egypt and eventual ascendancy from there.

Here is the passage in Tanach Matthew was trying to “latch on to” for his “proof:”

Among the major problems with Matthew’s attribution of this verse to Jesus is that in context the entire chapter in Hoshea is clearly speaking about the Jewish people as “My son.” This is a very common metaphor in Tanach, where the collective body of the Jewish people is called “God’s son,” or “first born.”

Note: “When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.”



How can the birth of a virgin be a sign for anyone? Only God knows the inner secrets of a person, thus, one’s virginity is ultimately a hidden matter

 

[Guno]

 

[RAMOSS]

Matthew 2:14
This passage is found in the beginning of the gospel of Matthew where we find Joseph, the husband of Mary, fleeing from Herod with his wife and infant son. The writer wants us to identify this event with a verse that seems to refer to a person called “son” – that is, to prove Jesus was called then “son of God.” Matthew also attempts to demonstrate that the passage identifies one detail of the life of Jesus – namely his exile to Egypt and eventual ascendancy from there.

Here is the passage in Tanach Matthew was trying to “latch on to” for his “proof:”

Among the major problems with Matthew’s attribution of this verse to Jesus is that in context the entire chapter in Hoshea is clearly speaking about the Jewish people as “My son.” This is a very common metaphor in Tanach, where the collective body of the Jewish people is called “God’s son,” or “first born.”

Note: “When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.”



How can the birth of a virgin be a sign for anyone? Only God knows the inner secrets of a person, thus, one’s virginity is ultimately a hidden matter

In addition, if you read Isaiah in context, the story line continues after chapter 7, and all the way through chapter 8... where son of the maiden is shown to be Isaiah's own son. and he declares the he and his sons are the signs to Israel.

 

[Daisy]

Many prophecies have a two-fold, sometimes a three-fold fulfillment...a large number of prophecies had their initial application or fulfillment on the contemporaries of that day, yet these prophecies did not lose their value for later generations, as for the Christian congregation, either in the 1st century CE or right down to our own time...just as Paul stated...

“For all the things that were written aforetime were written for our instruction, that through our endurance and through the comfort from the Scriptures we might have hope.” Romans 15:4

That is one reason why we can say God's Word is alive...

 

[TypicalRussian]

The claim of Paul and the "New" Testament authors is that Jesus fulfilled many prophecies connected to the Hebrew Scriptures (so-called Old Testament) and a true believer will easily be able to see them. The gospel according to Matthew, in particular, attempts to cross-reference the miraculous birth, deeds and proclamations attributed to Jesus with relevant passages found in Tanach. What are the differences in Christianity vs Judaism?

Closer scrutiny, however, reveals a great conspiracy and tampering of the evidence. Not one verse from Tanach proves the messiahship of Jesus. On the contrary, our Jewish sages, for two millennium have had ample time to analyze and decipher all 22,000+ verses in Tanach, and have concluded that Jesus did not fulfill any of its prophecies, nor are there any passages that unambiguously allude to his life or ministry. On the contrary, we will discover how the New Testament distorts and contorts Tanach to make it “bend” to their a priori agenda to “prove” their beliefs about Jesus. Let’s see!

In a certain way, Fundamentalist missionaries shoot the arrow in the target and then draw the bull’s eye around the arrow. In this fashion, they claim to always be correct, making the evidence conform to their foregone conclusions.

Matthew 1:22-23
What is significant here is not only is this verse being taken out of context, it is also being mistranslated (more examples of this to follow). This verse is the basis for Christian theology concerning the miraculous “Virgin Birth” of Jesus. The manufacture of this myth fits a 1st Century mindset where it was very common amongst pagans to venerate their leaders as being “born of God.” It freed them from the “taint” of being conceived by “sinful” human flesh. It is also one of the main verses that attempt to prove the idea of a corporeal god and the divinity of Jesus from the translation of the name “Immanuel,” as “God with us.”

Jews for Judaism | Christian Proof-Texting

i dont think so, Jesus is not the Hebrew Jewish messiah

 

[tosca1]

About Hosea 11:1 and Matthew 2:13-15



Hosea 11: 1
“When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son.”


Matthew 2
13 When they had gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream. “Get up,” he said, “take the child and his mother and escape to Egypt. Stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to search for the child to kill him.”

14 So he got up, took the child and his mother during the night and left for Egypt, 15 where he stayed until the death of Herod. And so was fulfilled what the Lord had said through the prophet: “Out of Egypt I called my son.”


Those verses involve the relationship God has with Israel - the analogous love of a Father for His son, Israel, as shown in this Exodus passage.


Exodus 4:22-23
22 Then you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus says the Lord, Israel is my firstborn son,
23 and I say to you, “Let my son go that he may serve me.” If you refuse to let him go, behold, I will kill your firstborn son.’ ”



Hosea 11:1 is not a Messianic prophecy. It is a Biblical Typology (type) - a special kind of symbolism.
A biblical type can be a person or thing in the Old Testament that represent or typify a person or thing in the New Testament.



Matthew 2 is an analogy. He used the Hosea statement in showing that the Messiah is an extension of God's love to His people.
Matthew does not say that Jesus was in the mind of Hosea when Hosea wrote that verse.
Matthew was simply matching that experience of Jesus with the experience of Israel as written by Hosea.

Out of Egypt I called my son.

Jesus was God’s Son, and He made a trip from Egypt to the land of Israel. Matthew was showing that Jesus completed what began with the exodus, connecting Jesus with the promise of Abraham and the leadership of Moses. The “calling” of God’s “son” (Israel) began in ages past and found its completion in the coming of Christ to fulfill the Law and the Prophets.

Is “out of Egypt I called my son” in Hosea 11:1 a Messianic prophecy? | GotQuestions.org

 

[RAMOSS]

Many prophecies have a two-fold, sometimes a three-fold fulfillment...a large number of prophecies had their initial application or fulfillment on the contemporaries of that day, yet these prophecies did not lose their value for later generations, as for the Christian congregation, either in the 1st century CE or right down to our own time...just as Paul stated...

“For all the things that were written aforetime were written for our instruction, that through our endurance and through the comfort from the Scriptures we might have hope.” Romans 15:4

That is one reason why we can say God's Word is alive...

that is only true if you have a false claim to try to promote

 

[tosca1]

Responses to Jews For Judaism, which is given as the basis for the OP of this topic: Jews for Judaism | Christian Proof-Texting


As shown in the previous explanation regarding the verses from Hosea and Matthew 2, the apologist for Jews for Judaism is the one who misunderstood - and thereby, had taken the statement of Matthew out of context.

The writer for that article did not recognize the symbolism called, Biblical Typology.

Biblical typology

Typology is a method of biblical interpretation whereby an element found in the Old Testament is seen to prefigure one found in the New Testament. The initial one is called the type and the fulfillment is designated the antitype. Either type or antitype may be a person, thing, or event, but often the type is messianic and frequently related to the idea of salvation. The use of Biblical typology enjoyed greater popularity in previous centuries, although even now it is by no means ignored as a hermeneutic.

Typological interpretation is specifically the interpretation of the Old Testament based on the fundamental theological unity of the two Testaments whereby something in the Old shadows, prefigures, adumbrates something in the New. Hence, what is interpreted in the Old is not foreign or peculiar or hidden, but arises naturally out of the text due to the relationship of the two Testaments.

https://www.theopedia.com/biblical-typology


Therefore......that alone, shows that the writer for that article, lacks some insight on what he's criticizing.
If he failed to see and recognize a Biblical Typology, how on earth can his views be taken seriously?

 

[tosca1]

Responses to Jews For Judaism

• The word “Immanuel” does not mean "God has become a man and walks among us" nor does it mean "God has become flesh and is with us as a man". Such assertions contradict the word of God. According to God, he isn't a man, as we find in (Numbers 23:19) “God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? Or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?”

Jews for Judaism | Christian Proof-Texting


Lol. Boy, how he really twisted that around. Let me ask you:


Did Joseph/Mary actually named the baby Immanuel?

Yes, according to God He isn't a man. He is spirit. HOWEVER, is there anything impossible with God?
Is it impossible for God to appear to man in any shape or form He wants?

It's obvious, the writer for that article hasn't heard of THEOPHANY - the physical appearance of God to man.

3 Kinds of Theophanies

God did not limit himself to one type of appearance in the Old Testament.

The reasons for the different manifestations are not clear, but they fall into three categories.

Appearance in nonhuman form. In Exodus, God appeared in a burning bush, as a pillar of cloud by day, and as a pillar of fire by night. God appeared as a "whisper" to Elijah and in visions to other prophets. The Lord appeared to King Solomon in a dream, promising to grant what he asked.

Appearance as a man. The most famous revelation of God in the form of a man happened at Peniel ("face of God"), where Jacob wrestled with a man all night.
The wrestling was real but also symbolized Jacob's struggles with men and God. Moses spoke with God "face to face" on Mount Horeb, but Jesus revealed that "God is spirit," (John 4:24, NIV), so any human manifestation of God is not his true form.

Appearance as an angel. By far the most common revelations of God were as "the angel of the Lord." The term occurs over 60 times in Scriptures. Some Bible commentators think those Old Testament manifestations were actually Chistophanies, or pre-incarnate appearances of Jesus Christ, but that is not spelled out in any of those incidents. The "angel of the Lord" is unique from other angels and is linked to Yahweh himself.

Theophany - How God Appears to Man in the Old Testament




Genesis 32

Jacob Wrestles With God

22 That night Jacob got up and took his two wives, his two female servants and his eleven sons and crossed the ford of the Jabbok. 23 After he had sent them across the stream, he sent over all his possessions. 24 So Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him till daybreak.
25 When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacob’s hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man.
26 Then the man said, “Let me go, for it is daybreak.”

But Jacob replied, “I will not let you go unless you bless me.”

27 The man asked him, “What is your name?”

“Jacob,” he answered.

28 Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with humans and have overcome.”

29 Jacob said, “Please tell me your name.”

But he replied, “Why do you ask my name?” Then he blessed him there.

30 So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, “It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared.”




Did the writer for that article ever read the Old Testament?






Christian Proof-texting, my foot!

Jews for Judaism can't even recognize the serious flaws in that so-called proof-texting - the same goes for the author of the OP,
along all those who agreed with it! Lol. Don't just copy-paste anything you find on-line!



Btw, what was that article used for the basis of the OP? An essay for High School? :lol:

Okay....I'm outa here. Wasting time on this bs pseudo-apologetic by Jews For Judaism.