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Christian preacher yells faggots during sermon

RAMOSS said:
The 'Messianic Jews' are not considered to be of the Jewish faith by the mainstream Jews. In fact, many of them do not even have Jewish heritage. If you look at who initially funded all the Messianic temples, they tended to be evangelistic Christians who wanted to proselytize to the Jews, either Southern Baptist or some of them were Lutheran. The people of Jewish heritage in those temples tend to be people that were brought up secular
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What a load of hooey. It's the same old "No True Scotsman" bull.

You've taken no polls, and if you've interviewed any Jewish believers it's probably not more than a handful.

There's even Messianic Synagogues in Israel. List of Messianic Congregations & Ministries in Israel

So do try to curb your self-serving over-generalizations.
 
CLAX1911 said:
It colored my idea of religion. Its a base for my opinion.

Do you practice shunning for people that don't follow your goofy rules?

I've talked to many recovering JWs. The way your cult treats people who don't follow its nonsense anymore is despicable.

The way your cult treats people that report sexual abuse perpetuated by its zealots is profoundly despicable.

Pretty sure it would make Christ weep.

But you go ahead and sneer down your sanctimonious nose at all the unwashed heathens outside your cult. We're smart enough not to join.
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You are deflecting by changing the subject...I am sure you have read enough of my posts to know your claim that we don't follow Jesus is not true...are you willing to retract that claim? If so, I'll be glad to explain disfellowshipping to you...if not we have nothing further to discuss...
 
Logicman said:
What a load of hooey. It's the same old "No True Scotsman" bull.

You've taken no polls, and if you've interviewed any Jewish believers it's probably not more than a handful.

There's even Messianic Synagogues in Israel. List of Messianic Congregations & Ministries in Israel

So do try to curb your self-serving over-generalizations.
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There are other Christian organizations in Israel too. Messianic Jews are not subject to the Law of Return in Israel
Developments in the Family Member Clause of the Law of Return - Israel Today | Israel News
n HCJ 265/87 Beresford v. the Interior Ministry, it was determined that a Messianic Jew/Christian is a member of another religion, and is therefore considered not Jewish, in accordance with the Jewish definition given in Section 4(b) of the Law of Return.
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So, in addition to the general attitude of the mainstream Jews, the law in Israel is the Messianic Jews are NOT Jewish. They are treated the same as Christians, Hindu's, Buddhists and Muslims.
 
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SheWolf said:
No, I promise I am not messing with you. There could be a few different reasons why I don't know much about Baptists, but I find your post to be really interesting.

I knew a Calvinist, and she believed people were either destined to go to Heaven or Hell and what you did, didn't matter. Is that the same as "predestination?" How does the concept work? Again, I apologize is my questions are really dumb. I am curious to know this.
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Yes. That is predestination in a nutshell. The main part though is that it is NOT a decision we make or an action we perform. I would compare it to love. You cannot control if someone loves you. You can only decide to accept or reject it. But it is still their choice. Not yours. Similar concept.

This is the reason you hear about being “saved.” To baptists that is a huge thing because that is when you become a Christian. When you get accepted into heaven. You have accepted Jesus into your heart. It is usually some kind of moment for them and they can usually tell you when they were saved. If you were to ask a Presbyterian...they would look at you funny and say...about 2000 years ago. We believe we were saved when Jesus died on the cross. Thus baptism is ceremonial and a recognition of the sacrifice. That we all sin and we are at God’s mercy. And his grace. And it is his grace that gives us life and gets us into heaven. It is Not an affair of me making a choice to be Christian and becoming destined for heaven.

:)

If that makes sense at all. :)
 
Elvira said:
You are deflecting by changing the subject...I am sure you have read enough of my posts to know your claim that we don't follow Jesus is not true...are you willing to retract that claim?
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I have read enough of your posts that to know that you are brainwashed by your cult. Sad really.

If so, I'll be glad to explain disfellowshipping to you...if not we have nothing further to discuss...
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You don't have to explain it to me disfellowship is what you do to people to keep them from convincing brainwashed followers into leaving the cult.

It's something every cult has done.

I don't care to hear your explanation cuz you're just going to try and justify this despicable practice. I don't care what your opinion it's because it's programmed into you by the Watchtower I can go get their books and read it
 
RAMOSS said:
There are other Christian organizations in Israel too. Messianic Jews are not subject to the Law of Return in Israel
Developments in the Family Member Clause of the Law of Return - Israel Today | Israel News

So, in addition to the general attitude of the mainstream Jews, the law in Israel is the Messianic Jews are NOT Jewish. They are treated the same as Christians, Hindu's, Buddhists and Muslims.
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The law doesn't change their heritage, and it only applies to immigration. So nice try.
 
Logicman said:
The law doesn't change their heritage, and it only applies to immigration. So nice try.
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Nice attempt for diversion. It is proof positive that mainstream Jews do not accept Messianic Jews at part of the Jewish faith. You can deny that all you want, but that's the truth. They are legally a different religion in Israel.
 
RAMOSS said:
Nice attempt for diversion. It is proof positive that mainstream Jews do not accept Messianic Jews at part of the Jewish faith. You can deny that all you want, but that's the truth. They are legally a different religion in Israel.
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No, it's evidence some bigoted government officials don't accept them.
 
Logicman said:
No, it's evidence some government officials don't accept them.
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And, it has been passed into law. It's the law, and that is that.

And, I can assure you, that you won't find any mainstream Jewish group that accepts Messianic Jews as anything but Christian.
 
CLAX1911 said:
I have read enough of your posts that to know that you are brainwashed by your cult. Sad really.


You don't have to explain it to me disfellowship is what you do to people to keep them from convincing brainwashed followers into leaving the cult.

It's something every cult has done.

I don't care to hear your explanation cuz you're just going to try and justify this despicable practice. I don't care what your opinion it's because it's programmed into you by the Watchtower I can go get their books and read it
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Good...because I was not looking forward to wasting my time explaining anything to you anyway...
 
RAMOSS said:
And, it has been passed into law. It's the law, and that is that.

And, I can assure you, that you won't find any mainstream Jewish group that accepts Messianic Jews as anything but Christian.
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Doesn't mean squat anyway. It just reminds me of the rebellion of Korah against Moses, and the Israeli's rebellions against God's prophets. There's always been push back against the truth and it's no different with the push back against Messianic Jews.
 
Logicman said:
Doesn't mean squat anyway. It just reminds me of the rebellion of Korah against Moses, and the Israeli's rebellions against God's prophets. There's always been push back against the truth and it's no different with the push back against Messianic Jews.
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Why, yes it does. It shows your claim that Messianic Jews are Jews is false.
 
RAMOSS said:
Why, yes it does. It shows your claim that Messianic Jews are Jews is false.
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Hogwash.

The Apostle John was a Messianic Jew and he was Jewish, so the whole foundation of what you're trying to push is an exercise in folly.
 
Logicman said:
Hogwash.

The Apostle John was a Messianic Jew and he was Jewish, so the whole foundation of what you're trying to push is an exercise in folly.
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He gave up his Jewish faith, and become an apostate. And, it has nothing to do with the so called 'messianic Jewish' groups, and how the mainstream Jewish groups view them.
 
RAMOSS said:
He gave up his Jewish faith, and become an apostate. And, it has nothing to do with the so called 'messianic Jewish' groups, and how the mainstream Jewish groups view them.
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Nope, he didn't give up his Jewish faith, he realized its true fulfillment in Jesus Christ.

You see, Ramoss, this whole Christianity movement was birthed by Jews. Jesus was a Jew and so were all of his disciples. And you don't have to like it.
 
Logicman said:
Nope, he didn't give up his Jewish faith, he realized its true fulfillment in Jesus Christ.

You see, Ramoss, this whole Christianity movement was birthed by Jews. Jesus was a Jew and so were all of his disciples. And you don't have to like it.
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Not according to the Jewish faith. In the Jewish faith, God does not become a man, the messiah is not God, and the Messiah has not come.
 
RAMOSS said:
Not according to the Jewish faith. In the Jewish faith, God does not become a man, the messiah is not God, and the Messiah has not come.
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History has shown otherwise. And you don't have to like it.
 
shrubnose said:
He was 1/2 Jewish-his father was God.How did a 1/2Jewish guy in Palestine end up with a Mexican name like Jesus two thousand years ago?Explain that if you can.

:lol:
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Cause 2000 years ago there were no Mexicans and, at the time, it was a Hebrew name meaning "God saves"
 
CLAX1911 said:
I have read enough of your posts that to know that you are brainwashed by your cult. Sad really.


You don't have to explain it to me disfellowship is what you do to people to keep them from convincing brainwashed followers into leaving the cult.

It's something every cult has done.

I don't care to hear your explanation cuz you're just going to try and justify this despicable practice. I don't care what your opinion it's because it's programmed into you by the Watchtower I can go get their books and read it
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I wonder how long before DP locks down this thread too.
 
Considering this is in the religious forum, I highly doubt it...though you would never know it from some of the responses...
 
Logicman said:
Nope, he didn't give up his Jewish faith, he realized its true fulfillment in Jesus Christ.

You see, Ramoss, this whole Christianity movement was birthed by Jews. Jesus was a Jew and so were all of his disciples. And you don't have to like it.
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You are exactly right, LM...a little background on John...

After being introduced to Jesus as the Christ in the fall of 29 C.E., John undoubtedly followed Jesus into Galilee and was an eyewitness to His first miracle at Cana. (Joh 2:1-11) He may have accompanied Jesus from Galilee to Jerusalem, and again on his return through Samaria to Galilee, for the vividness of his account seems to stamp it as that of an eyewitness to the events described. However, the record does not so state. (Joh 2-5) Nevertheless, John did not leave his fishing business for some time. In the following year, as Jesus walked alongside the Sea of Galilee, James and John were in the boat with their father Zebedee repairing their nets. He called them to the full-time work of being “fishers of men,” and the account by Luke informs us: “So they brought the boats back to land, and abandoned everything and followed him.” (Mt 4:18-22; Lu 5:10, 11; Mr 1:19, 20) Later they were selected to be apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ.—Mt 10:2-4.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200002489#h=33:0-33:405
 
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