Christ is a Gentile (1 Viewer)

[ptsdkid]

"Galilee of the Nations" (Gentiles)--that is what the prophet Isaiah called it, and such indeed it was--all of it, east and west of the Jordan--Gentile in race though partially Judaised in the cult of the Jews, and from time to time also in nationality.

Fifty years after Christ, the Governor of Galille, Josephus, the Jewish historian, describes the Galileans as a people wholly unlike the Jews in temperament and ideals--so different indeed that they could not have been of the same race.

In a word, Christ as the Son of man was a Galilean, and the Galileans were not Jews. This is the verdict of history. It is the verdict of nature which she stamped upon the characteristics of Galilean and Jew. If any hold otherwise the burden of proof is upon themselves.

Palestine, the western arm of the "fertile crescent," had been inhabited by Gentiles for more than a thousand years when Joshua appeared with his Hebrew tribes about 1300 B.C. These Gentiles or non-Jews were not even Semite, but were Aryan like ourselves--members of the Caucasion or white race, known to the Jews or Hebrews as Canaanites. The history of the Aryans in all that part of the world goes back some centuries beyond the year 4000 B.C. Hence, the Hebrew tribes came as raiders or invaders, just as the Midianites or Arabs came on many a subsequent occasion. They succeeded in establishing themselves in the homeland of the Canaanites as most unwelcome guests. In fact, they claimed all this excellent territory as their own by prior right, saying that it had been given to a legendary ancestor named Abraham centuries before they arrived to lay claim to it--an argument that failed to appeal to the Canaanites with any show of justice.

Excerpts from "Christ was not a Jew" by Jacob Elon Conner, AB., Ph.D.

 

[Joby]

uhhhh.....

Matthew 1:2-16
Luke 3:23-38

1 Corinthians also gives us the vision of paul, in which God tells him that it is now commanded that he preach among the Gentiles as well. That makes No Sense if Jesus and his apostles were Gentiles.

 

[ptsdkid]

uhhhh.....

Matthew 1:2-16
Luke 3:23-38

1 Corinthians also gives us the vision of paul, in which God tells him that it is now commanded that he preach among the Gentiles as well. That makes No Sense if Jesus and his apostles were Gentiles.

***I fail to see where Jesus preaching to other Gentiles makes no sense.

When I have time, I'll post a few more lines that help prove that Jesus is not a Jew.

 

[Spartacus FPV]

***I fail to see where Jesus preaching to other Gentiles makes no sense.

When I have time, I'll post a few more lines that help prove that Jesus is not a Jew.

:spin: :rofl

Next you're gonna insist he was white wont ya...

 

[zymurgy]

I'd be happy with proof that he even existed, let alone what race he was.

Gospel isn't proof.

altered Josephus isn't proof.

Anything from 50 years after his supposed death isn't proof.

 

[talloulou]

I'd be happy with proof that he even existed, let alone what race he was.

Gospel isn't proof.

altered Josephus isn't proof.

Anything from 50 years after his supposed death isn't proof.

I agree with ya completely. I have yet to find any concrete proof that Jesus existed as a real man and certainly his story is arguably not unique and I'd even go so far as to say plagerized from other stories of other gods.

 

[MSgt]

There's a whole lot of religious retardation on this site lately.

According to gospel...

1) Mary was a Jew.

2) Jesus was a Jew.

3) The Jews were never labeled as "Satan's children" as one religious nut likes to say.

History revisionists are the most disgusting creatures in history. They ensure that lies and deceit become truth and set the course for further conflict between peoples.

 

[talloulou]

There's a whole lot of religious retardation on this site lately.

According to gospel...

1) Mary was a Jew.

2) Jesus was a Jew.

3) The Jews were never labeled as "Satan's children" as one religious nut likes to say.

History revisionists are the most disgusting creatures in history. They ensure that lies and deceit become truth and set the course for further conflict between peoples.

Well if you want to get into religious retardation why are we even talking about what nationality Jesus was when supposedly he had no human father and his mother was a virgin? Clearly in literature he is some sort of alien half god half man creature right? Unless of course christians have come to accept that Mary if she was a woman who in fact gave birth to this man she probably wasn't a "virgin" as much as she was a young woman.

 

[ngdawg]

The legend of Jesus Christ is probably just that-a legend borne of other myths from other beliefs. So it would stand to reason that someone who is anti-semitic would try to find 'proof' that the person he believes is real to not be Jewish.
The most common comparisons to the myth of Jesus is the myth of Mithra, a persian sun god.
In part:
According to Persian mythology, Mithras was born of a virgin given the title 'Mother of God'. The god remained celibate throughout his life, and valued self-control, renunciation and resistance to sensuality among his worshippers. Mithras represented a system of ethics in which brotherhood was encouraged in order to unify against the forces of evil.

The worshippers of Mithras held strong beliefs in a celestial heaven and an infernal hell. They believed that the benevolent powers of the god would sympathize with their suffering and grant them the final justice of immortality and eternal salvation in the world to come. They looked forward to a final day of judgement in which the dead would resurrect, and to a final conflict that would destroy the existing order of all things to bring about the triumph of light over darkness.

Purification through a ritualistic baptism was required of the faithful, who also took part in a ceremony in which they drank wine and ate bread to symbolize the body and blood of the god. Sundays were held sacred, and the birth of the god was celebrated annually on December the 25th. After the earthly mission of this god had been accomplished, he took part in a Last Supper with his companions before ascending to heaven, to forever protect the faithful from above. Source: http://www.innvista.com/culture/religion/deities/mithra.htm
Other sources state that the birth of Mithra (just one of many names for the same god) is the basis for the story or Christmas; many of the Nordic traditions for winter solstice/ sun god celebrations are incorporated into our own modern Christmas, ie; the Christmas tree, grog and eggnog, etc.

 

[talloulou]

The legend of Jesus Christ is probably just that-a legend borne of other myths from other beliefs. So it would stand to reason that someone who is anti-semitic would try to find 'proof' that the person he believes is real to not be Jewish.
The most common comparisons to the myth of Jesus is the myth of Mithra, a persian sun god.
In part:
According to Persian mythology, Mithras was born of a virgin given the title 'Mother of God'. The god remained celibate throughout his life, and valued self-control, renunciation and resistance to sensuality among his worshippers. Mithras represented a system of ethics in which brotherhood was encouraged in order to unify against the forces of evil.

The worshippers of Mithras held strong beliefs in a celestial heaven and an infernal hell. They believed that the benevolent powers of the god would sympathize with their suffering and grant them the final justice of immortality and eternal salvation in the world to come. They looked forward to a final day of judgement in which the dead would resurrect, and to a final conflict that would destroy the existing order of all things to bring about the triumph of light over darkness.

Purification through a ritualistic baptism was required of the faithful, who also took part in a ceremony in which they drank wine and ate bread to symbolize the body and blood of the god. Sundays were held sacred, and the birth of the god was celebrated annually on December the 25th. After the earthly mission of this god had been accomplished, he took part in a Last Supper with his companions before ascending to heaven, to forever protect the faithful from above. Source: http://www.innvista.com/culture/religion/deities/mithra.htm
Other sources state that the birth of Mithra (just one of many names for the same god) is the basis for the story or Christmas; many of the Nordic traditions for winter solstice/ sun god celebrations are incorporated into our own modern Christmas, ie; the Christmas tree, grog and eggnog, etc.

The legend for the sun god Horus is also very similar to Jesus.

 

[ngdawg]

One or two things the sungods have in common, regardless of what name he/they go by(Mithra being used since that name predates modern times by over 3,500 years) and they are: The birth of the sun, which was the winter solstice-the shortest day of the year. Calendars put this date at December 25, before changes to the Gregorian calendar came to be (I believe that'd be the 18th century, give or take). The twelve 'disciples', sometimes referred to as the 12 signs of the zodiac, depending on which belief is followed. A 'virgin birth' of the sungod, a common thread regardless of name or area. Resurrection is another common thread through all these beliefs, as is the sungod's mediations between earth and heavenly gods.
Simple logic and comparison would tell most that the story of Jesus is merely a rewriting of more ancient beliefs and myths. Personally, I truly don't get the fervor over thinking the myth of Jesus is any more 'real' than those identical stories. The names have been changed, that's it.

 

[jennyb]

wow poor kid...you just cant stand the fact that christ was a jew can you,,,,
the fact is that whether or not christ was the savior the christians think he was..if nothing else , he was in all likelyhood the rightful heir to the crown of the king of israel and king of the jews. he was a decendant from david...
a savior and leader and king of the jews.

 

[Joby]

One or two things the sungods have in common, regardless of what name he/they go by(Mithra being used since that name predates modern times by over 3,500 years) and they are: The birth of the sun, which was the winter solstice-the shortest day of the year. Calendars put this date at December 25, before changes to the Gregorian calendar came to be (I believe that'd be the 18th century, give or take). The twelve 'disciples', sometimes referred to as the 12 signs of the zodiac, depending on which belief is followed. A 'virgin birth' of the sungod, a common thread regardless of name or area. Resurrection is another common thread through all these beliefs, as is the sungod's mediations between earth and heavenly gods.
Simple logic and comparison would tell most that the story of Jesus is merely a rewriting of more ancient beliefs and myths. Personally, I truly don't get the fervor over thinking the myth of Jesus is any more 'real' than those identical stories. The names have been changed, that's it.

Very, very good! Many cultures have belief structures that are mirrored by their neighbors!

Now, how could that be. Hmmm, it makes little sense Indians and Greeks could come up with similiar creation stories, doesn't it? They were living thousands of miles apart, no contact, how?...

Could it be that-gasp!-they came from the same people?

Flood stories appear in 217 cultures from around the world: 95% say it was a global flood, 73% animals and a boat were involved, and 35% say a bird was sent out at the end.

Now, after landing near Mt. Aratat, a very, very long time ago, Noah and his family began to repopulate the world. This is why the 'Fertile Crescent' is sometimes calld the birthplace of humanity. Anyway, after the fall of the tower of Babel, this already large group, that had probably already begun to split a ong time before, was finally seperated. Different tribes and, eventually, cultures began to form.

And many years later Abram was leaving Ur and the rest, as they say, is history.

Now, Doesn't it make sense that many of these cultures retained at least some of the beliefs of their ancestors?

This 'globalization' of belief, if you will, shows that many of these different cultures may be intertwined from some original starting point.

Just don't bet on the apes.

 

[tecoyah]

Just don't bet on the apes.

We don't. But I'm damn sure not going to bet on a 2000 yr old book of fables either.

If you want to play the Odds game....OK?

bet #1) overwhelming Data, which cannot possibly be understood by only one person, forming several fields of study and requiring thousands of researchers in an ongoing study of timeline and evolution through history. Support for factual accuracy taken from massive observation, scientific testing, and stringent application of peer review, coupled with several means of agreed upon accurate dating techniques.

bet#2) a 2000 yr old series of revised books, bearing little resemblance to the original documents (where they exist), proclaiming a story disproven time and again by science. Though in fairness some aspects of a few of the myths are physically possible, the story, when taken as a whole is absolutely impossible unless a "God" changed multiple aspects of this planet to allow for such an event.

So....given the two bets, I would need to place my $ on #1. But then again....I am rather fond of reality, and dont like to lose.

 

[jennyb]

i dont know that it was exactly apes per say, but a parting of the ways between one homo and the other........ driving out the weaker...the ones that couldnt adapt.....to climate and hunting,(food and clothing..same thing .)
the name of which acually escapes me right now:doh (the fun of memory gone astray:3oops: )
i do ascribe, however to your second theory.....except i believe in God

 

[ngdawg]

Very, very good! Many cultures have belief structures that are mirrored by their neighbors!

Now, how could that be. Hmmm, it makes little sense Indians and Greeks could come up with similiar creation stories, doesn't it? They were living thousands of miles apart, no contact, how?...

Could it be that-gasp!-they came from the same people?

Flood stories appear in 217 cultures from around the world: 95% say it was a global flood, 73% animals and a boat were involved, and 35% say a bird was sent out at the end.

Now, after landing near Mt. Aratat, a very, very long time ago, Noah and his family began to repopulate the world. This is why the 'Fertile Crescent' is sometimes calld the birthplace of humanity. Anyway, after the fall of the tower of Babel, this already large group, that had probably already begun to split a ong time before, was finally seperated. Different tribes and, eventually, cultures began to form.

And many years later Abram was leaving Ur and the rest, as they say, is history.

Now, Doesn't it make sense that many of these cultures retained at least some of the beliefs of their ancestors?

This 'globalization' of belief, if you will, shows that many of these different cultures may be intertwined from some original starting point.

Just don't bet on the apes.

You're making an insinuation that these beliefs started after the 'great flood'??
Were these people who descended from Mt. Ararat carrying pamphlets or were they just taught to memorize? Were they like Jehovah Witnesses going door to door?
Why were the stories similar? Let's look at a really simple scenario: put 20 people in a room. Tell them one story about an incident in your own childhood. I guarantee at least one person will say, "Me too!!"
The 'no contact' isn't completely true. Tribes, cultures, empires interconnected for thousands of years, for trade, war, mobility....look how far Rome is from Egypt, how far from China, yet Cleopatra(Egypt) knew Marc Antony(Rome) and Marco Polo (Italy) travelled to China. If your theory were true, the Romans would never have heard of Christ, yet a book written 2000 years ago says they had.
I love Creationists. They're so..............creative.:mrgreen:

 

[Joby]

You're making an insinuation that these beliefs started after the 'great flood'??
Were these people who descended from Mt. Ararat carrying pamphlets or were they just taught to memorize? Were they like Jehovah Witnesses going door to door?
Why were the stories similar? Let's look at a really simple scenario: put 20 people in a room. Tell them one story about an incident in your own childhood. I guarantee at least one person will say, "Me too!!"
The 'no contact' isn't completely true. Tribes, cultures, empires interconnected for thousands of years, for trade, war, mobility....look how far Rome is from Egypt, how far from China, yet Cleopatra(Egypt) knew Marc Antony(Rome) and Marco Polo (Italy) travelled to China.

Yes, these beliefs did, for the most part, come from the people who survived the great flood. Because they happened to be the only people left.

For the most part, the language was the in the "language of Adam", and was ,I imagine, mostly transferred orally. Any archaeologist will tell you a story can last for thousands of years without ever being written down. Anyway, until the fall of the tower, this is how it was passed down, to answer your question. Developing creation stories is not like learning to ride a bike. What do you think happened, people just sat around and debated what story to go with, then voted? Tribal council style, right?

And yes, I understand that empires have existed. The Sumerians, Egyptians, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, and finally the Romans all controlled Mesopotamia. But I was refering to Indians in the Americas, whose myths resemble the eastern myths.

And yes, I read Antony & Cleopatra and realize Rome was a large empire. And by the time Marco Polo travelled to China, the world had entered the dark ages, in which most people couldn't even read the bible because of the language barrier.

Anyway, most of this is talked about in the book of isaiah, so you may want to start there to answer yor questions.

If your theory were true, the Romans would never have heard of Christ, yet a book written 2000 years ago says they had.

But obviously, like the assyrians and babylonians before them, they did not adopt any of the Jewish customs.

 

[Joby]

We don't. But I'm damn sure not going to bet on a 2000 yr old book of fables either.

If you want to play the Odds game....OK?

bet #1) overwhelming Data, which cannot possibly be understood by only one person, forming several fields of study and requiring thousands of researchers in an ongoing study of timeline and evolution through history. Support for factual accuracy taken from massive observation, scientific testing, and stringent application of peer review, coupled with several means of agreed upon accurate dating techniques.

bet#2) a 2000 yr old series of revised books, bearing little resemblance to the original documents (where they exist), proclaiming a story disproven time and again by science. Though in fairness some aspects of a few of the myths are physically possible, the story, when taken as a whole is absolutely impossible unless a "God" changed multiple aspects of this planet to allow for such an event.

So....given the two bets, I would need to place my $ on #1. But then again....I am rather fond of reality, and dont like to lose.

how do I put this. I don't believe every single screw to be 'there', but I believe the building as a whole is correct. There are many researchers out there who feel if they can prove that this screw or that screw is correct, it proves it. If they prove this screw or that screw is improbable, that proves the whole thing is imossible.

And that brings up the argument as to whether or not the screw matter at all, but what matters is that I worship the same God that my fathers worshipped thousands of years ago.

 

[ngdawg]

Yes, these beliefs did, for the most part, come from the people who survived the great flood. Because they happened to be the only people left.

How do you explain then, the differences in language, both written and oral, the differences in physical attributes, cultural differences?

For the most part, the language was the in the "language of Adam", and was ,I imagine, mostly transferred orally. Any archaeologist will tell you a story can last for thousands of years without ever being written down. Anyway, until the fall of the tower, this is how it was passed down, to answer your question. Developing creation stories is not like learning to ride a bike. What do you think happened, people just sat around and debated what story to go with, then voted? Tribal council style, right?

Actually that is not that far off the mark. Entires books have been known to be left out of the bible. The recent discovery of the book of Judas is only one example of this. There is wide speculation that there exists a book of Magdalene somewhere as well.

And yes, I understand that empires have existed. The Sumerians, Egyptians, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, and finally the Romans all controlled Mesopotamia. But I was refering to Indians in the Americas, whose myths resemble the eastern myths.

And yes, I read Antony & Cleopatra and realize Rome was a large empire. And by the time Marco Polo travelled to China, the world had entered the dark ages, in which most people couldn't even read the bible because of the language barrier.

Anyway, most of this is talked about in the book of isaiah, so you may want to start there to answer yor questions.



But obviously, like the assyrians and babylonians before them, they did not adopt any of the Jewish customs.

The 'book of Isaiah', like other books in the bible, are moralistic fables and are proof of nothing and therefore would not answer any questions, had I actually had any to begin with.

 

[Joby]

How do you explain then, the differences in language, both written and oral, the differences in physical attributes, cultural differences?

There were few cultures befor the tower of babel had been built, but that act pretty much divided people until the apocolypse. Read genesis for more answers.

Actually that is not that far off the mark. Entires books have been known to be left out of the bible. The recent discovery of the book of Judas is only one example of this. There is wide speculation that there exists a book of Magdalene somewhere as well.

The 4 Gospels are the most complete. Catholic editing did enough damage, but William Tindell and, later, King James' men did an excellent job, at the time, of translating the bible for the common man.

The 'book of Isaiah', like other books in the bible, are moralistic fables and are proof of nothing and therefore would not answer any questions, had I actually had any to begin with.

sigh

The Book of Isaiah is mainly prophecy. It concerns mainly the coming of the Christ, both times. Oldest copies were found as far back as 400 BC, and the book in its entirety states that the Christ will be born of a virgin, be of the line of david, be crucified by the jews, be resurected after, a state of apostasy will emerge, a new dispensation will begin, people will become the most wicked at pretty much any time on the planet, and the Christ will return.
BASICALLY. there is of course much more, and much of it has come to pass.

Anyway, the Bible is incomplete. That is why God gave the World the Book of Mormon, to open the last dispensation and give the people of God another testament of Jesus the Christ. But that's another argument

 

[ngdawg]

I can see that you are a firm believer in this book and have no interest in pondering anything beyond what it tells you, so I'll end this discussion now.
Suffice it to say that while the stories have decent morals, etc., they are in no way proof of anything or true, from floods to what Jesus looks like any more than mythology and Zeus sitting on Mt. Olympus are.

 

[Joby]

I can see that you are a firm believer in this book and have no interest in pondering anything beyond what it tells you, so I'll end this discussion now.
Suffice it to say that while the stories have decent morals, etc., they are in no way proof of anything or true, from floods to what Jesus looks like any more than mythology and Zeus sitting on Mt. Olympus are.

No, there is absolutely no proof. You are absolutely right.

There is evidence that what was written in the Bible may be true, and there is evidence that what was prophesied may have come to pass. But of course, if everything were proven to be true, what would be the point of us being sent here from heaven? It would be like a vacation, not the test it is meant to be.

Faith is believing insomething you cannot see, feel, or touch, but know to be true.

 

[tecoyah]

Faith is believing insomething you cannot see, feel, or touch, but know to be true.

I think the point here is.....there is a fine line between "Faith", and "Blinders". Having faith in God is one thing, and helps many people lead caring and productive lives. Believing in the flood myth as stated in the Bibles, cannot be justified by this faith, however. You mention China above, and ask we look into biblical passages for insight into questions placed in this thread....I would ask you to look at the history of China, and see how that works with the flood myth.

Would not this culture have been Destroyed, along with everyone Else?

 

[Joby]

I date the flood to be about 6,000 BC. That would have given populations enough time to reach large levels, and would have predated China

 

[Gibberish]

I date the flood to be about 6,000 BC. That would have given populations enough time to reach large levels, and would have predated China

Traditional Christianity dates Noah's Flood at 2300 BCE (and the creation of the world at about 4000 BCE). The flood of Gilgamesh (which is very similar to the genesis story and possibly inspired it) is dated at about 5000 BCE.

Where do you get the conclusion of 6000 BC?