choose marxism ?

[tshade]

 

[ttwtt78640]

Name any nation that has a Marxist economy. Marxism seems OK as a theory, but in practice only changes who exploits the workers.

 

[Centrist]

Theory:
-> "a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained."

Practical:
-> "the practical aspects of something involve real situations and events, rather than just ideas and theories."

In Romania during the 70's almost everyone loved Ceausescu and took part in the utopia. What happened? Well the difference between theory and practical use happened. So how do you maintain the theory if the practical aspect fails in the long term? They arm the young, idealists like you, students, etc. to go take care of business.

Maybe when we change our DNA will be a possibility. This idea killed more people than religious fanaticism in my opinion.

It would be an easy cure. To live in such a system, when you wait in line for a couple of hours and there is no food while the "Marxist elite" eats stakes at the palace you realize very much the game. However, if you only lived just reading the theory then is hard to understand if you don't have a relative point.

---> I also read Das Kapital, well I had too. 😂 There were random checks sometimes by the members of the police to see if you have it in the library.

 

[NatMorton]

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No, that's not reading Marx objectively. That's reading him credulously.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Marx was right about a lot of things and a very good observer of human nature and social dynamics. However, what he was wrong about, he was really wrong about. My point is, that everyone can learn something from Karl Marx, but what you can't learn is how to organize a nation's government and economy just from Karl Marx.

 

[MrWonka]

Name any nation that has a Marxist economy. Marxism seems OK as a theory, but in practice only changes who exploits the workers.

Well, according to Republicans every Democrat of the last 80 years has been a Marxist, yet somehow the economy consistently does better when we're in charge of it.
According to Republicans Scandanavia and much of Europe are Marxists, yet they almost all have a higher quality of life than America has.

 

[tshade]

Name any nation that has a Marxist economy. Marxism seems OK as a theory, but in practice only changes who exploits the workers.

Marxism is NOT practiced anywhere, nor ever. If it was, it would work.....

 

[tacomancer]

The discussions of flaws are n market economies was accurate but the solution has been proven not to work (at least if adhered to too strictly)

It looks like a mixed economy works well though, which is why it’s practiced in all wealthy nations.

 

[aociswundumho]

Workers are not "exploited" under capitalism. Most, but not all, of the value workers create goes to them. If none of the value went the employer, then the employer wouldn't hire anyone, and the jobs wouldn't exist.

 

[aociswundumho]

It looks like a mixed economy works well though,

Mixed economies work better than socialist economies, because the capitalist side of the economy actually creates wealth.

which is why it’s practiced in all wealthy nations.

Slavery was practiced nearly everywhere at one point, is that an argument for slavery?

 

[tacomancer]

Mixed economies work better than socialist economies, because the capitalist side of the economy actually creates wealth.

And its the mixed piece that keeps capitalism from concentrating too much wealth and eventually failing once people get desperate for food.

Slavery was practiced nearly everywhere at one point, is that an argument for slavery?

No, and I suspect mixed economies will probably be replaced by something else as technology progresses, just as technology supplanted slavery.

 

[Acadia]

Name any nation that has a Marxist economy. Marxism seems OK as a theory, but in practice only changes who exploits the workers.

Exactly. There will always be The Elite.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Marxism is NOT practiced anywhere, nor ever. If it was, it would work.....

OK, so it is much like alchemy (if it could be made to work). Alchemy is a great theory, using various inexpensive base metals (and a hefty dose of magic?) to produce gold, but has never actually worked.

 

[Nomad4Ever]

Name any nation that has a Marxist economy. Marxism seems OK as a theory, but in practice only changes who exploits the workers.

Well there certainly were countries that had at least what I would call a socialist economy. I don't know what a Marxist economy is, I don't think that is a real political science term. They were not perfect but an I would say were a good example of working industrialized socialism before the fascist (not a euphemism) Spanish government crushed them.

In response to these problems, the Generalitat of Catalonia, backed by the CNT approved a decree on "Collectivization and Workers' Control" on 24 October 1936. Under this decree all firms with more than 100 workers were to be collectivized and those with 100 or less could be collectivized if a majority of workers agreed.[14][15][16] All collectivized enterprises were to join general industrial councils, which would be represented in a decentralized planning agency, the Economic Council of Catalonia.

Although there were early issues with production in certain instances, however, Emma Goldman attested that industrial productivity doubled almost everywhere across the country, with agricultural yields increased "30-50%".[20]

Anarchic communes often produced more than before the collectivization. The newly liberated zones worked on entirely libertarian principles; decisions were made through councils of ordinary citizens without any sort of bureaucracy. The CNT-FAI leadership was at this time not nearly as radical as the rank and file members responsible for these sweeping changes.

Revolutionary Catalonia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Marxism is NOT practiced anywhere, nor ever. If it was, it would work.....

If only that were so lol. But at least you are optimistic.

 

[tshade]

OK, so it is much like alchemy (if it could be made to work). Alchemy is a great theory, using various inexpensive base metals (and a hefty dose of magic?) to produce gold, but has never actually worked.

Marxism was laid out for all to see, but never practiced......................not like alchemy

 

[ttwtt78640]

Marxism was laid out for all to see, but never practiced......................not like alchemy

You seem to be confusing practiced (attempted?) with actually made to work.

 

[tshade]

You seem to be confusing practiced (attempted?) with actually made to work.

never attempted either........the leaders chose to ignore it's principles from the get-go

 

[NolanVoyd]

View attachment 67385087

"I, for one, am not a marxist"

-----Karl Marx.

 

[Bullseye]

View attachment 67385087

Yeah, and it's never been tried before, huh? Reading what Marx wrote while someone else paid his living expenses and assuming that it has any merit a a governing phiosophy makes no sense.

 

[NatMorton]

never attempted either........the leaders chose to ignore it's principles from the get-go

Do you ever wonder why the Marxist end-state is never created and why every band of comrades who has every attempted to create it “ignore its principles from the get-go?” The answer is quite simple, actually.

Marxism demands a suspension of individual liberty in order for the state to reign supreme, and it starts with the suspension of property rights from “the get-go.” And what so many folks on the left simply do not understand is that property rights and human rights are inextricably linked: if you don’t respect what’s mine you don’t respect me. The path to a Marxist utopia begins by amassing a high degree of centralized, political authority such that property can be seized “for the benefit of the people,” and once that authoritarian power structure is in place it’s game-over. That authority is never given up, and you never get your individual liberties back without yet another revolution.

Marxism’s end state has never been archived at any scale — and never will be achieved — because the entire philosophy is flawed. It assumes early-stage centralization of political authority will be used for good. History tells us over and over again that such a concentration of power will not.

Embrace democracy. Embrace markets. We’ll all be better for it.

 

[NatMorton]

"I, for one, am not a marxist"

-----Karl Marx.

Wanted to know whether that was an actual quote and came across this one. Rather good:

Experience shows that there are two sides to every contradiction. And one would be stupendously naïve to think that anti-Marxism hasn’t for some years now been an article of faith as robust as the genuine article. “I am not a Marxist,” Marx was alleged to have told his son-in-law Paul Lafargue, when the latter brought news from Paris of French “Marxists.” But there is no reason to believe him. Marx was no less vain and insecure in respect of his own intellectual legacy than most of his rivals and opponents, which explains why so many of the letters people sent him went missing, no doubt destroyed by their correspondent. It is difficult to believe that Marx would have been indifferent to the propagation of his own mythology, and to claim that he wasn’t a Marxist is about as convincing and self-critical as Groucho Marx’s hilarious assertion that he wouldn’t wish to join any club that would have him as a member.

Source: here.