Chinese tariffs, who pays?

[smallvoice]

This is not about teenagers. In my country for example the minimum wage for people under 23 is a lot lower than people over 23. This is because most people under 23 have a lot lower expenditure than people who are ready to go and buy themselves a house or have a family.

I always had higher wage than the minimum wage because I used to do heavy jobs in shifts. But for businesses like restaurants and fast food joints these kind of jobs were done by minimum wage youths until they finish their education (the same for supermarkets and the businesses like that).

But it is well known that a lot of people in the US have trouble getting by on one wage or even two if both parents work.

And you are right, these people usually are not skilled. I had a reasonably high education but it was a general education, not fit for much other than entry level jobs, that changed when I got unemployed and the unemployment agency offered me a 1 year education (36 weeks full time education followed by a minimum of 13 weeks on the job training). I got interested in customs work (hence my later career as a customs employee and after that I was not unemployed for 1 more day until I got too sick to work anymore. I think investing a year of that kind of training on youthful job seekers is a lot better than letting them work low end jobs for the rest of their lives.

"...it is well known"? That coming from a foreigner, who admits his skills are in heavy labor, in shifts is ludicrous.

So you got trained. Did someone hold your hand? That won't happen much here. Employees who want to improve will make the effort to improve, those that don't won't, but they will be quick to whine that the "man is keeping them down". Thank you for making my point.

 

[smallvoice]

Wait. What? :lol:

Trouble reading, or understanding?

 

[smallvoice]

Nope. My particular job is completely reactive. I don't care what people do unless someone gets dead. The person that killed them has already broken the law, the dead person(s) are no longer capable of it.

Ok, a coroner.....a S****Y job, but someone has to do it. Same question, did you earn your pay?

 

[smallvoice]

I do stuff. I don't produce things.

There's nothing particularly honorable in only "doing stuff". Be happy you have a good paying job that is non-productive. There aren't many of those.

 

[joko104]

What a FALSE poll choice selection.

The OPer apparently does NOT understand that China sells products from China shipped directly to Americans. There aren't that many America companies left. Most "American" companies aren't American owned.

For example, Apple - now worth $2 Trillion dollars and more than all but 6 countries in the world - is NOT an American company. It was Ireland, but Apple then stiffed Ireland $14 billion taxes. Apple Refuses to Pay Ireland $14 Billion in Back Taxes Ordered by EU | Observer

Their TAX HQ now is on a small tax shelter island.

Before the recent tax code overhaul, the company would’ve paid $78.6 billion in taxes if it brought the money home, according to the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy. Apple didn’t want to pay this tax, so it let the cash sit offshore for years.

In the meantime, Apple and its peers have been working furiously to tilt the tax code in their favor. Apple spent $2.3 million in the third quarter of 2017 alone lobbying. The other four big tech companies—Microsoft, Facebook, Alphabet (which owns Google), and Amazon—chipped in another $14 million.
Commentary: How Apple Avoided Paying $40 Billion in Taxes | Fortune

Biden personally assured the super rich he will NOT raise their taxes and "fundamentally nothing will change" if he becomes president. All the talk about the evil rich people at the Democratic convention are all lies. Hell will freeze over before Biden or Harris will breathe ANY taxes on the richest corporations on earth.

Tariffs are absolutely necessary to:
1. Protect American jobs
2. To indirectly make mega billion (and now trillion) dollar corporations pay taxes that they otherwise do not pay.
3. To level the playing field at least a little for small companies than can't afford to have offshore tax havens.

Who pays for not having tariffs are Americans - via lost jobs, unemployment benefits, welfare, crime and prison costs - and smaller American businesses run out of business by having to pay taxes the super rich don't pay.

The stance of the Democratic Party - certainly Biden - is that it is best if you have no job - but pay 25% less for imports that you don't have income to buy with.

China will spend tens of billions indirectly to elect Joe Biden. He is worth eliminating $550 billion in tariffs to China just for starters. A Biden presidency will put hundreds of billions and then trillions into China's pockets and their super rich business partners like Apple, Amazon etc.

 

[joko104]

Ok, a coroner.....a S****Y job, but someone has to do it. Same question, did you earn your pay?

Wouldn't it be better to freeze corpses to ship to China for autopsies? For cremations too. You would win on that too according to the Democratic Party because while you might be out of a job, you could get relatives cremated for less.

Therefore, according to the Democratic Party and most Democrats you win if you lost your job to offshoring. In their economic calculations, other than government employees, no American should work. Rather, they should gain the savings of their jobs being down in other countries for a discount. To pay for those products, the government would send everyone a check every week. That's the Democratic Party's policy goals now. No Americans work except government jobs. In return, the government will send them their income that they can use to buy imported products with, ideally from Amazon so that Jeff Bezos continues to use his newspapers to support Democratic politicians.

NOTHING is more important to the Democratic Party than getting as much money for Bezos, the WalMart heirs and the other richest people and corporations on earth for maximum profits by foreign, non-white slave-labor made products.

 

[Grand Mal]

Well, globalization is real. You can thank president Clinton for this.

Sorry, bud, but things like the growth of globalization are gonna happen no matter what an American President does or does not do. America's influence now is that of a market, a mass of consumers and American consumers have no tolerance for deprivation or inconvenience. That's obvious to everyone, including any potential trade-war adversaries. An American President might try to remove the USA from the global economy but the American people would not sit still long enduring the consequences of the isolation that would result.

 

[Peter King]

"...it is well known"? That coming from a foreigner, who admits his skills are in heavy labor, in shifts is ludicrous.

So you got trained. Did someone hold your hand? That won't happen much here. Employees who want to improve will make the effort to improve, those that don't won't, but they will be quick to whine that the "man is keeping them down". Thank you for making my point.

1. Never claimed my skill was heavy labor, it was a means to an end because I hated taking money from the government, it is ridiculous that you are trying to make that sound like something ludicrous or bad.

2. there are 13 million working Americans who need multiple jobs. And then there are elderly people needing to work because they never saved up enough money to retire properly. Also there are huge numbers of people who need to take personal bankruptcy.

And did someone hold my hand? Nope, it was all done on personal responsibility but was done by someone at the department of employment looking into how serious I was. It was a big expense but better than a life of being unemployed from time to time to time.

 

[Luce]

Ok, a coroner.....a S****Y job, but someone has to do it. Same question, did you earn your pay?

No, not a coroner. They make much more than I do. Just a detective.

 

[smallvoice]

1. Never claimed my skill was heavy labor, it was a means to an end because I hated taking money from the government, it is ridiculous that you are trying to make that sound like something ludicrous or bad.

2. there are 13 million working Americans who need multiple jobs. And then there are elderly people needing to work because they never saved up enough money to retire properly. Also there are huge numbers of people who need to take personal bankruptcy.

And did someone hold my hand? Nope, it was all done on personal responsibility but was done by someone at the department of employment looking into how serious I was. It was a big expense but better than a life of being unemployed from time to time to time.

Well, I wasn't talking to you. When you become an American, you may have a voice in our discussions. Until then, not so much.

 

[Peter King]

Well, I wasn't talking to you. When you become an American, you may have a voice in our discussions. Until then, not so much.

Yeah, that is not how this website (freedom of speech) or the world wide web works. You may dislike what I have to say, fine no problem but the bull crap "you are not allowed to have a voice in our discussions" is a nonsense. The world is not a vacuum. The internet is not a vacuum and this website allows everyone to give their opinion, if you don't like people giving opinions, don't read my posts. Simple solution.

 

[smallvoice]

Yeah, that is not how this website (freedom of speech) or the world wide web works. You may dislike what I have to say, fine no problem but the bull crap "you are not allowed to have a voice in our discussions" is a nonsense. The world is not a vacuum. The internet is not a vacuum and this website allows everyone to give their opinion, if you don't like people giving opinions, don't read my posts. Simple solution.

Ok, I will give your opinion all the consideration it deserves.

The Netherlands must be a vacuum, it brought you here for stimulating discussion. So there's that.

 

[Peter King]

Ok, I will give your opinion all the consideration it deserves.

The Netherlands must be a vacuum, it brought you here for stimulating discussion. So there's that.

Well the Netherlands has great conversations but the one forum I used to post on closed down a long time ago. It had gone stale and boring and one thing you cannot say about Debate Politics is that it is boring/stale.

Dutch politics is pretty boring IMO, elections usually last 6 weeks from the start to the end of the campaign. Only the leaders of the party debate a few times on television. Nobody gets called, no massive ad campaign video's. Nothing of that at all. People debate on the issues (besides the populists) and voting is simple, one day voting, you have to identify yourself by driving license or passport/identity card (not an issue it is mandatory for everybody to have you). You get your voting card in the mail, you go to one of the numerous voting offices in your city and then just vote. Even the busiest voting office means a 10 minute wait normally.

But I have been a huge (based on my education) about the US political system as it is so different to ours. Your election is very long, very complicated and in that way interesting. I am just a history and political buff and that is one of the reasons I have been here for 8 years. And I have been discussing on US forums ever since 2005 (Terri Shiavo mostly) and on a website for the disappearance of Natalee Holloway and after that I started here and I love discussing.

 

[Visbek]

There's nothing particularly honorable in only "doing stuff".

Oh, really?

There is nothing particularly honorable about the career choices of...
• Nurses?
• Doctors?
• Teachers?
• Police?
• Software engineers?
• Accountants?
• Medical and pharmaceutical researchers?
• All the people who work to make sure your Internet connection functions?

You do realize that the most lucrative careers now are in the service sector? E.g.:
• Bankers
• Venture capitalists
• IT management
• Business management
• Doctors
• Lawyers

Meanwhile, the people who "make stuff" don't make much money in the US these days. A lawyer can earn $150k/yr, while a factory worker is lucky to break $40k.

Who's at the top of the Fortune 500?
• Walmart (#1)
• Amazon (#2)
• CVS (#5)
• UnitedHealth (#7)
• McKesson (#8)
• AT&T (#9)
• Amerisource Bergen (#10)

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

You don't understand economics. Raising the prices on Chinese goods give American industries an opportunity to compete for American sales. As long as Chinese prices are better than American ones, American industry suffers.

My guess is Chinese wages are so low that the Chinese profit margin is huge, and we are as a real disadvantage, partly because our wages are so high, and theirs are so low.

Wages in China are not that low anymore especially on the east coast. As a result industrial robots are being installed at very high rates in China. Low skill low wage manufacturing has been leaving China for a good 8 years

 

[Grand Mal]

Well, I wasn't talking to you. When you become an American, you may have a voice in our discussions. Until then, not so much.

Oh yeah, that's gonna work for you.

 

[post]

Trouble for Trump and Erik Prince? We'll see che sera, sera....

Former Green Beret charged with spying for Russia

A former active-duty officer in the U.S. Army was arrested Friday and accused of conspiring to spy for the Russian government over a period of 15 years.
The Washington PostYesterday



https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-re...07186/download



https://mobile.twitter.com/lrozen/st...16919107432450

Laura Rozen
@lrozen
Peter Debbins had a 2015 article in the American Thinker about Ukraine
https://admin.americanthinker.com/ar..._approach.html

Laura Rozen
@lrozen
Person indicted today, Pete Debbins, Erik Prince, James Woolsey, Bud McFarland, etc. at Foster Friess hosted event at NY Metropolitan Club on Sept. 13, 2017 http://americancatalyst.org/table24.html

 

[Luther]

Tariffs are paid by the importer, who ever that is

Now the effects can be varied. The exporter might lower prices to remain competitive, or do final assembly somewhere else to avoid tariffs, or if their product is good enough leave the prices as is. The importer faces higher prices generally, and has three options eat the cost, pass the cost on to the customer or a mix of the two

pass the cost on to the customer or a mix of the two

Me thinks its this one

 

[Dacke]

I'll tell you who pays and it sure ain't Mexico (ha-ha) - It is you.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Me thinks its this one

Depends on the level of competition among companies, in the US Chinese companies do not have brand recognition to be able to charge premiums like Apple or Dyson

 

[noonereal]

Yesterday Trump was still claiming that China paid the tariffs.

His moron cultists believe him.

Do we ever need to vote Trump out.

 

[Waddy]

Both the poll choices are inaccurate. The end user pays the tariff. End users pay ALL taxes, though a producer may be able to eat the tax hike for a while. Eventually, the end user (consumer) always pays all taxers. But sometimes tariffs, which favor domestic products over imports, are necessary to level the playing field and punish illegal activities, like copyright infringement, dumping, and counterfeiting. Hopefully, the tariff is harsh enough to make the importers reform their practices, and at the same time giving domestic producers a well deserved advantage. If everyone plays fair no tariffs are necessary. If you do not fight unfair practices you lose yet another domestic industry, and the jobs and taxes that go along with it. The consumer, and the taxpayer, also pay for this.