Chinese tariffs, who pays?

[Visbek]

That is nonsense, the liberal/Dim unions have artificially forced our prices up by demanding ever increasing wages without increasing production.

Nope, nope, wrong. Wages have NOT kept up with productivity. The two started to diverge around the time that unions started to weaken.

The Chinese don't have that weight around their neck, and can beat us on price everytime.

Nope, nope, wrong. Wages are lower in China because the cost of living is significantly lower there. And wages are, in fact, increasing in China; they have for a long time now. This is because... wait for it... the cost of living in manufacturing centers is rising, as they become more populated, and it costs more for workers to live in those cities.

The tariffs only make Chinese products more expensive so that American industry can compete. So, you may thank the unions for that.

Nope, nope, wrong. That's sheer nonsense. It's an inept attempt to apply political pressure to China and change the balance of trade. And if that was its goal, then it didn't work; US manufacturing output didn't soar while the tariffs were applied.




Also, US manufacturing employment did not soar when the tariffs were applied:

 

[smallvoice]

Nope, nope, wrong. Wages have NOT kept up with productivity. The two started to diverge around the time that unions started to weaken.

Nope, nope, wrong. Wages are lower in China because the cost of living is significantly lower there. And wages are, in fact, increasing in China; they have for a long time now. This is because... wait for it... the cost of living in manufacturing centers is rising, as they become more populated, and it costs more for workers to live in those cities.



Nope, nope, wrong. That's sheer nonsense. It's an inept attempt to apply political pressure to China and change the balance of trade. And if that was its goal, then it didn't work; US manufacturing output didn't soar while the tariffs were applied.

View attachment 67291916


Also, US manufacturing employment did not soar when the tariffs were applied:

View attachment 67291917

Thank you for making my point, obfuscated as you tried to make it. The key phrase in your attempt is "...because the cost of living is significantly lower there". The reason it is lower is because the unions haven't arrived in China -yet.

 

[Visbek]

Thank you for making my point, obfuscated as you tried to make it. The key phrase in your attempt is "...because the cost of living is significantly lower there". The reason it is lower is because the unions haven't arrived in China -yet.

LOL

Yet more nonsense. The mere presence of unions doesn't triple wages or the cost of living.

Not to mention that yeah, everything else you wrote in your post was also wrong. Go back and check.

 

[Vadinho]

I'm always open to a discussion about the best way to shift US imports away from China, who is not our friend and is not even an honest trading partner. Tariffs are a tool, not a goal.

I get the impression that many people's opposition to tariffs is situational and depends more on Trump supporting them than anything else. But no matter. What would you propose instead of tariffs? What should president Biden do regarding China trade policy and containment?

Tariffs destroyed our soybean industry and were blunt instruments that a brute would use, they did not work as intended, did not move industries home, did not really punish China much at all and did not result in any new trade initiatives by Trump to encourage companies to move away from China. In essence, they were a tax on US consumers so that Trump could fool his followers into thinking he was a strong man when in fact, he was just a fool.

 

[noonereal]

In the short term, we pay. In the long term, China pays dearly when Americans quit buying their products. We actually gain long term because well paying jobs come back to America. I thought you guys wanted to help American jobs? What you actually want is to let the $30 per hour full time jobs with good benefits leave the country so you can tell Americans you've got a part time $15 per hour job waiting for them at Walmart or McDonalds with MFA.

not the point

Trump has said repeatedly how China sends him a check from the tariffs and he uses the money to pay farmers for there lost market.

 

[noonereal]

As a former smoker I quit because of the cost and so did a lot of other people I know who smoked. The money from the tax was used to teach our children the dangers of smoking. Are you really this clueless. I assure the tobacco companies didn't educate our children on the dangers of smoking. But going from 75 cents a pack to almost 10 dollars a pack clearly has made a lot of people decide to stop smoking.

and it bleeds the poor, are you that clueless?

good grief

 

[smallvoice]

LOL

Yet more nonsense. The mere presence of unions doesn't triple wages or the cost of living.

Not to mention that yeah, everything else you wrote in your post was also wrong. Go back and check.

Our history has shown that , yeah mere presence of unions does triple wages hence the cost of living. I did not address your obfuscation, so there is nothing wrong about what I said.

 

[Visbek]

Our history has shown that , yeah mere presence of unions does triple wages hence the cost of living.

Assertion is not an argument. You have a nice day now.

 

[jakiejakester]

Ultimately, no one will pay the tariffs. People are rational and will seek lower cost, non-tariff alternatives.

OTOH, if you a consumer who thinks China is a great country and thinks Chinese products are just the best, then I suppose you'll pay the premium to get your hands on that renowned Chinese manufacturing quality and integrity.

What about all the clothing that we import from China? It's not simply "buy American" or "buy Vietnamese" because the majority of clothing is imported from China. WE pay the tariffs when WE buy the clothing. Trump, as usual, lies about this all the time and pretends we're collecting from China but we're not. The US consumer is the loser!

 

[jakiejakester]

China pays with reduced profitability.

Tariffs give countries an incentive to move their supply chain from China to somewhere else. That means the profits do not go to China!

The answer to “Who pays” is a tricky one. In simple pure economics, the buyer pays by paying more. But this higher price attracts others in to the tariff-free market, causing prices to go down again.

So the simple answer becomes “Yes and yes”, because you need to mix in lost opportunity costs of lost domestic wages and “institutional amnesia” caused by forgetting how, over time, to make certain things.

(There will be a quiz on Friday!)

For clothing, the US importer pays. China has not lowered their prices. I work in the fashion industry (and other industries) as an Executive Recruiter and our fashion clients are getting hit hard and more than a few have gone out of business because Covid has reduced demand dramatically but the tariffs are really hurting them.

 

[jakiejakester]

They do and they pay by the billions. The tariffs are collected at import, not when sold so the US is paid its money whether people buy the goods or not.

But the tariffs are paid by the IMPORTERS not China!

 

[jakiejakester]

In the short term, we pay. In the long term, China pays dearly when Americans quit buying their products. We actually gain long term because well paying jobs come back to America..

Sorry, just not true. The US economy is not able to compete globally in manufacturing most of the things that we import. Clothing, footwear, electronics, appliances, home goods, furniture are mostly imported and a lot from China. That will not change. We, the consumer will pay Trump's tariffs. The good news is that when Trump loses in 77 days Biden can eliminate the absurd tariffs and prices can go down.

The really ironic thing is that these tariffs are TAXES so Trump has raised taxes to virtually every American. As he always does, this is another of his cons.

 

[eman623]

What about all the clothing that we import from China? It's not simply "buy American" or "buy Vietnamese" because the majority of clothing is imported from China. WE pay the tariffs when WE buy the clothing. Trump, as usual, lies about this all the time and pretends we're collecting from China but we're not. The US consumer is the loser!

Or you could buy from any other country that doesn't have tariffs. Mexico, Vietnam, India, or about a hundred others.

 

[Bodi]

When the President placed tariffs on China who paid them/pays them?

Do the Chinese send us a check or are the tariffs collected from USA companies?

Ultimately it is the customer that ends up making up the difference...

 

[Bodi]

Sorry, just not true. The US economy is not able to compete globally in manufacturing most of the things that we import. Clothing, footwear, electronics, appliances, home goods, furniture are mostly imported and a lot from China. That will not change. We, the consumer will pay Trump's tariffs. The good news is that when Trump loses in 77 days Biden can eliminate the absurd tariffs and prices can go down.

The really ironic thing is that these tariffs are TAXES so Trump has raised taxes to virtually every American. As he always does, this is another of his cons.

You say we can not compete and that things will not change. That is not accurate. We could easily change and manufacture what we want competitively. That could change. The fact that it probably won't does not mean that we could not do it.

 

[Bodi]

Or you could buy from any other country that doesn't have tariffs. Mexico, Vietnam, India, or about a hundred others.

OR we could bring back manufacturing to America...

 

[noonereal]

you say we can not compete and that things will not change. That is not accurate. We could easily change and manufacture what we want competitively. That could change. The fact that it probably won't does not mean that we could not do it.

you gonna work for $! An hour?

 

[Bodi]

you gonna work for $! An hour?

We all work for pay... people work at Home Depot stocking shelves, toy stores, fast food... why can't Nike make shoes here?

They can...

 

[noonereal]

We all work for pay... people work at Home Depot stocking shelves, toy stores, fast food... why can't Nike make shoes here?

They can...

they can't be price competitive unless they can pay the same as overseas

 

[SMTA]

Just recently bought a Chinese made small motorcycle.

Less than three grand out the door.

Not a freeway machine, m2 class. But it goes 45 mikes an hour for about 25 miles.

There are exactly zero American made machines that are similar in capability and price.

The world is adopting dozens of machines in this class. But only the CSC City Slicker has been homologated (approved for sale as a motor vehicle in America).

Oh, and by the way, i paid the tariff.

Yes you did.
It was built into the price that you paid.
Glad to see that you understand.

 

[SMTA]

We all work for pay... people work at Home Depot stocking shelves, toy stores, fast food... why can't Nike make shoes here?

They can...

Raw material and especially labor costs are cheaper in China.
Cheaper production by far in China.

 

[SMTA]

You say we can not compete and that things will not change. That is not accurate. We could easily change and manufacture what we want competitively. That could change. The fact that it probably won't does not mean that we could not do it.

Untrue.
American labor is astronomically higher than China.
American labor will not magically become cheaper.

 

[Bodi]

they can't be price competitive unless they can pay the same as overseas

Sure they can...

 

[Bodi]

Untrue.
American labor is astronomically higher than China.
American labor will not magically become cheaper.

I never said that the pricing would remain the same so what I said is not untrue...

 

[Bodi]

Raw material and especially labor costs are cheaper in China.
Cheaper production by far in China.

It is a miracle that we have any businesses at all, really. Amazing, actually.