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Chinese tariffs, who pays?

When the President placed tariffs on China who paid them/pays them?


  • Total voters
    28
  • Poll closed .
FYI, in case somebody thinks I am talking out of my behind. In my working life I was a customs employee/head of the customs department of a car importer from a US car factory and from a Japanese company that imported reflective and non reflective sheeting for commercial and use in road signs. And later I worked for UPS-SCS and was tasked with making the customs documents and deciding which customs bracket (for tariffs) the products were shipped under.

I calculated and tabulated how much customs duties we had to pay each month and the company who got to pay this was the company importing the goods. Then that customs cost was paid by the people who bought our wares.

Chinese companies would only pay for it if they were importing from China and were situated in the US but even then in the end it will be the customer paying for the customs tariffs. That is 100% certain because no company can foot the bill forever when it comes to tariff costs.
 
When the President placed tariffs on China who paid them/pays them?

Do the Chinese send us a check or are the tariffs collected from USA companies?

In the short term, we pay. In the long term, China pays dearly when Americans quit buying their products. We actually gain long term because well paying jobs come back to America. I thought you guys wanted to help American jobs? What you actually want is to let the $30 per hour full time jobs with good benefits leave the country so you can tell Americans you've got a part time $15 per hour job waiting for them at Walmart or McDonalds with MFA.
 
In the short term, we pay. In the long term, China pays dearly when Americans quit buying their products. We actually gain long term because well paying jobs come back to America. I thought you guys wanted to help American jobs? What you actually want is to let the $30 per hour full time jobs with good benefits leave the country so you can tell Americans you've got a part time $15 per hour job waiting for them at Walmart or McDonalds with MFA.

Except they will not stop buying it because no other country, not the US or any other country can produce that many items for that cheap a price. Even with the tariffs it will still be considerably cheaper than US produced items.
 
They do and they pay by the billions. The tariffs are collected at import, not when sold so the US is paid its money whether people buy the goods or not.

They do not pay, that is fake news. The tariffs are paid by the importer. Not by the exporter. So it may not be paid when it is sold in the US but as soon as it is imported in the US by the one who has bought the goods.
 
You don't know the future, but I'm find with Mexico, Vietnam and Thailand manufacturing. Those countries are not seeking global economic domination, waging huge state-sponsored industrial espionage against us, released a global pandemic, or ever imprisoned a million Uyghurs in slave labor camps and shaved their heads so the could sell their hair on the international market.

And that might be a worthy cause to pursue as an industrial policy but tariffs are not the way to do it. Do you like paying tariffs? No, Trump thinks he is a gangster shaking down local mom and pops with a protection racket, he is a bum and an idiot. China won't budge, they are far too smart for this idiot to deal with.
 
That isn't really the point though of raising them. It makes other companies and other countries able to compete with China. Raising the cost of doing business with China encourages competition.

I thought the point was to get the Chinese to change their trade practices? What good does it do us if Vietnam sells us electronics instead of China?
 
And that might be a worthy cause to pursue as an industrial policy but tariffs are not the way to do it. Do you like paying tariffs? No, Trump thinks he is a gangster shaking down local mom and pops with a protection racket, he is a bum and an idiot. China won't budge, they are far too smart for this idiot to deal with.

I'm always open to a discussion about the best way to shift US imports away from China, who is not our friend and is not even an honest trading partner. Tariffs are a tool, not a goal.

I get the impression that many people's opposition to tariffs is situational and depends more on Trump supporting them than anything else. But no matter. What would you propose instead of tariffs? What should president Biden do regarding China trade policy and containment?
 
Except they will not stop buying it because no other country, not the US or any other country can produce that many items for that cheap a price. Even with the tariffs it will still be considerably cheaper than US produced items.

And you may thank our unions for that situation, under the tutelage of the liberals.


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China pays with reduced profitability.

Tariffs give countries an incentive to move their supply chain from China to somewhere else. That means the profits do not go to China!
Sorry, but... nope.

It isn't easy to move manufacturing from one nation to another. Lots of manufacturing requires specialized skills, specialized equipment, extensive supply chains, management, QA.... That often can't be moved overnight.

Many foreign companies don't actually set up their own factories overseas; they will often put out the work for bid to local manufacturers. That means the American company needs to know how to navigate all those subs. That means networking, knowing who actually fulfills their contracts, who supplies goods on time and to the required level of quality, i.e. who the US company can trust to do the job. That also can't be built overnight.

China's labor is not the cheapest, but it's pretty cheap -- at least 1/3 that of US labor, and probably equally productive for most goods; nations with cheaper labor are usually less productive than China. That means the tariffs need to be pretty stiff in order to convince US companies to move. As we have already seen, this results in China retaliating against the US. Unsurprisingly, they are much smarter and better positioned than the US, which is why they targeted agricultural products (to put maximum pressure on Trump) and basically got Trump to drop a bunch of tariffs in exchange for the usual empty promises.

And we haven't even gotten into the impacts on exchange rates and monetary policy.

The proof, of course, is in the pudding. After Trump hit China with tariffs, imports to the US from China fell a bit -- but so did exports. Inflation didn't budge, mostly because companies ate a lot of the costs of the tariffs. Vietnam's balance of trade with the US followed the same gradual rise it's seen for almost a decade. The pandemic has done more to make American companies rethink their supply chains than any tariffs.


The answer to “Who pays” is a tricky one.
It really isn't.

The tariff is levied on the importer, which is the US company. The company then either eats the cost of the tariff, or passes on the cost to the customer. Meaning it is the US companies and consumers to pay for the tariff.

US companies can't force Chinese companies to cut their costs much (if at all), because those costs are already very low, and competitive pressures do more to hold prices down than any foreign government action.

Even if tariffs do manage to convince US companies to leave China, the US companies and consumers still pay. It's the US companies who must pay to relocate their supply chains, find new vendors, retrain those vendors, expose their IP to new vendors and new nations, and deal with lower productivity. Most of those costs get passed on to US customers.
 
And you may thank our unions for that situation, under the tutelage of the liberals.


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That is nonsense, tariffs are decided and implemented by the federal government, and the federal government is not just the liberals but most of the times partly or completely to blame for the tariffs.
 
They do not pay, that is fake news. The tariffs are paid by the importer. Not by the exporter. So it may not be paid when it is sold in the US but as soon as it is imported in the US by the one who has bought the goods.

I order from China usually twice a year. Sometimes 3 times but this time only once due to coronavirus. I pay a fixed price which includes delivery at order and my state's use tax when I do those. That is it. Any tarriffs taxes issues of any kind are between the supplier and the power that be. I have zero to do with it. If I could find an American supplier to beat that price, I would use an American supplier. Now if those tariffs cause the supplier to raise their prices, then that could make American suppliers more competitive but it hasn't yet---probably because american wholesalers import the same crap, mark up the price and then resell it. My savings are in cutting them out as the middleman.
 
Except they will not stop buying it because no other country, not the US or any other country can produce that many items for that cheap a price. Even with the tariffs it will still be considerably cheaper than US produced items.

Then we raise the tariffs even more.
 
FYI, in case somebody thinks I am talking out of my behind. In my working life I was a customs employee/head of the customs department of a car importer from a US car factory and from a Japanese company that imported reflective and non reflective sheeting for commercial and use in road signs. And later I worked for UPS-SCS and was tasked with making the customs documents and deciding which customs bracket (for tariffs) the products were shipped under.

I calculated and tabulated how much customs duties we had to pay each month and the company who got to pay this was the company importing the goods. Then that customs cost was paid by the people who bought our wares.

Chinese companies would only pay for it if they were importing from China and were situated in the US but even then in the end it will be the customer paying for the customs tariffs. That is 100% certain because no company can foot the bill forever when it comes to tariff costs.



One use for Tariffs is making the product more expensive so that American products can compete. So if you put a 50% tariff on Chinese buckets, American companies can sell their buckets for higher prices and still remain competitive.
 
Sorry, but... nope.

It isn't easy to move manufacturing from one nation to another. Lots of manufacturing requires specialized skills, specialized equipment, extensive supply chains, management, QA.... That often can't be moved overnight.

Many foreign companies don't actually set up their own factories overseas; they will often put out the work for bid to local manufacturers. That means the American company needs to know how to navigate all those subs. That means networking, knowing who actually fulfills their contracts, who supplies goods on time and to the required level of quality, i.e. who the US company can trust to do the job. That also can't be built overnight.

China's labor is not the cheapest, but it's pretty cheap -- at least 1/3 that of US labor, and probably equally productive for most goods; nations with cheaper labor are usually less productive than China. That means the tariffs need to be pretty stiff in order to convince US companies to move. As we have already seen, this results in China retaliating against the US. Unsurprisingly, they are much smarter and better positioned than the US, which is why they targeted agricultural products (to put maximum pressure on Trump) and basically got Trump to drop a bunch of tariffs in exchange for the usual empty promises.

And we haven't even gotten into the impacts on exchange rates and monetary policy.

The proof, of course, is in the pudding. After Trump hit China with tariffs, imports to the US from China fell a bit -- but so did exports. Inflation didn't budge, mostly because companies ate a lot of the costs of the tariffs. Vietnam's balance of trade with the US followed the same gradual rise it's seen for almost a decade. The pandemic has done more to make American companies rethink their supply chains than any tariffs.



It really isn't.

The tariff is levied on the importer, which is the US company. The company then either eats the cost of the tariff, or passes on the cost to the customer. Meaning it is the US companies and consumers to pay for the tariff.

US companies can't force Chinese companies to cut their costs much (if at all), because those costs are already very low, and competitive pressures do more to hold prices down than any foreign government action.

Even if tariffs do manage to convince US companies to leave China, the US companies and consumers still pay. It's the US companies who must pay to relocate their supply chains, find new vendors, retrain those vendors, expose their IP to new vendors and new nations, and deal with lower productivity. Most of those costs get passed on to US customers.

So you seem to be arguing there is no benefit to tariffs, and that the supply chain won’t leave china because their biggest customer (by far) has no influence. To make such an argument, your must rely on the rules of classical economics, which assumes a level playing field with honest and open participants.

You also left out the political ramifications of beginning the long slow process of leading the US’s disengagement from China. Our version of the free world will not survive if we don’t, and China’s version is a non starter.
 
this is a 3 clown shoes stupid post.

an educational program is what caused a reduction in smoking, not a tax. Good grief... you simple break the back of the poor who smoke with these insane taxes on cigarettes.

As a former smoker I quit because of the cost and so did a lot of other people I know who smoked. The money from the tax was used to teach our children the dangers of smoking. Are you really this clueless. I assure the tobacco companies didn't educate our children on the dangers of smoking. But going from 75 cents a pack to almost 10 dollars a pack clearly has made a lot of people decide to stop smoking.
 
So you seem to be arguing there is no benefit to tariffs, and that the supply chain won’t leave china because their biggest customer (by far) has no influence. To make such an argument, your must rely on the rules of classical economics, which assumes a level playing field with honest and open participants.

You also left out the political ramifications of beginning the long slow process of leading the US’s disengagement from China. Our version of the free world will not survive if we don’t, and China’s version is a non starter.
First, I am taking the OP's question literally. When a government enacts a tariff, who pays? It is always the importer and their customers. Even when tariffs cause pain to the target country, they aren't the one actually paying for the tariff, or the higher costs that result from moving production.

Second, I most certainly am not relying exclusively on classical economics. E.g. pointing out how China retaliated by targeting Republican constituents is political, not economic.

Third, "the United States" is not one single customer buying from one single producer called "China". There are hundreds of thousands of US companies buying goods from China, each making their own calculations about the costs of switching supply chains, whether they can balance out Trump's tax breaks and tariffs, and so on.

Fourth, when it comes to pressure, again! That's a two-way street, not one-way. Tariffs resulted in retaliation, which resulted in Trump signing a meaningless deal. Also, we didn't get into how Trump is in a far more precarious position than Xi Jingpeng, who is an authoritarian with significant control over the media and Chinese Internet, and who is running a nation that responds much more effectively to nationalistic appeals than Americans ever have.

As to the idea that there is some sort of moral imperative to control China? Too late. China is already too affluent, to tied into the global economy, too aggressively courting and tying up other nations, too badly needed by the US for the US to keep a collar on China just with a few tariffs and sniping at Huawei.

Not to mention that this administration is, to put it mildly, completely unequipped to do so. If Trump wanted to keep China in check, probably his last chance to do so was to sign the TPP. Instead, he backed out of it, then started attacking nations that were not only free and democratic, but our own allies -- including threatening or enacting tariffs on France, China, Mexico and more. No one should be surprised that Trump's "foreign policy" is a contradictory mess, insisting in one breath that the US needs to put its own interests first, and withdrawing from its global responsibilities and ties, and in the same breath insisting that "China is bad, therefore everyone else needs to do what we say." It's so childish, that it is no wonder the rest of the world is passing us by.

To top it all off, Trump is an incompetent autocrat who dreams of having the same powers and control of the media that Xi has, can't stop himself from complimenting Xi, and is happy to flush our entire electoral system down the drain because he can't face the mere possibility he might lose.

Maybe we need to clean things up at home, before trying to rejoin the TPP and make overtures to the EU and other nations to try and offer a genuine alternative to China....
 
One use for Tariffs is making the product more expensive so that American products can compete. So if you put a 50% tariff on Chinese buckets, American companies can sell their buckets for higher prices and still remain competitive.

Except people will most likely still buy chinese because even with 50% tariff good from China are still cheaper.
 
Then we raise the tariffs even more.

Which is not a logical move forward as the US customer is the one who pays the price and the standard of living in the US will fall.
 
That is nonsense, tariffs are decided and implemented by the federal government, and the federal government is not just the liberals but most of the times partly or completely to blame for the tariffs.

That is nonsense, the liberal/Dim unions have artificially forced our prices up by demanding ever increasing wages without increasing production. The Chinese don't have that weight around their neck, and can beat us on price everytime. The tariffs only make Chinese products more expensive so that American industry can compete. So, you may thank the unions for that.
 
That is nonsense, the liberal/Dim unions have artificially forced our prices up by demanding ever increasing wages without increasing production. The Chinese don't have that weight around their neck, and can beat us on price everytime. The tariffs only make Chinese products more expensive so that American industry can compete. So, you may thank the unions for that.

Imagine not altering wages to accommodate an expanding economy.
 
Imagine not altering wages to accommodate an expanding economy.

So you are a liberal. Wages are pegged to production, production lags an expanding economy. You folks want to be paid before you produce.
 
So you are a liberal. Wages are pegged to production, production lags an expanding economy. You folks want to be paid before you produce.

I get paid and nothing gets produced. It's a triumph of liberalism, really.
 
That sounds like socialism. You must fit in well.

Yes. I have in fact been promoted ahead of schedule, having not produced any product whatsoever in the last 20 years.
 
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