Chinese dissident Liu wins Nobel Peace Prize

[ludahai]

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BEIJING – Imprisoned Chinese democracy campaigner Liu Xiaobo on Friday won the Nobel Peace Prize — an award that immediately inspired China's political dissidents and drew furious condemnation from the authoritarian government.

Chinese state media blacked out the news and Chinese government censors blocked Nobel Prize reports, which highlighted Liu's calls for peaceful political change, from Internet websites. China declared the decision would harm its relations with Norway — and the Nordic country responded that it was a petty thing for a world power to do.

I kind of felt like this was going to happen after China made its protest against this. There is nothing the Nobel committee likes less than to be threatened by a bully, which is exactly what China is... I wonder what they are going to do to Norway, withhold exports of plastic junk?!?!? lol...

Seriously, I heard this listening to the news on the car radio on the way home and I clapped my hands with excitement (I know, not recommended on the Freeway at 95 km/hr) but I really was happy with this choice... much better than last year's no doubt.

China has gotten a lot of bad press lately and it is about time. It's childish reaction to this, the row it created with Japan and the increasingly tense trade rows with the EU and the US, among other things, are starting to cause more and more people to wake up to the true nature that is China's government.

 

[Jetboogieman]

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I kind of felt like this was going to happen after China made its protest against this. There is nothing the Nobel committee likes less than to be threatened by a bully, which is exactly what China is... I wonder what they are going to do to Norway, withhold exports of plastic junk?!?!? lol...

Seriously, I heard this listening to the news on the car radio on the way home and I clapped my hands with excitement (I know, not recommended on the Freeway at 95 km/hr) but I really was happy with this choice... much better than last year's no doubt.

China has gotten a lot of bad press lately and it is about time. It's childish reaction to this, the row it created with Japan and the increasingly tense trade rows with the EU and the US, among other things, are starting to cause more and more people to wake up to the true nature that is China's government.

A good choice.

China has to shape up in the human rights department I agree.

"An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere".

 

[Middleground]

Liu Xiaobo is a brave man and I hope that this award--and the government reaction-- will lead to more dissention. History has proven, time-and-time again, that a nation's people can only take so much before fighting back.

 

[Hatuey]

http://www.debatepolitics.com/archives/24210-al-gore-wins-nobel-peace-prize-15.html#post655575

Statements like this only prove that you are as nutty as the Nobel Committee. Tibet isn't part of China, and even if the Dalai Lama were preparing for a forceful coup against the Chinese occupiers (which I have never seen any credible evidence that he is) he would only be working against an illegal occupation.

Those nutty people at the Nobel Committee...

 

[ludahai]

http://www.debatepolitics.com/archives/24210-al-gore-wins-nobel-peace-prize-15.html#post655575

Relevance? Once again, you prove you have no capacity for debate...

 

[Whovian]

Much more deserving than the last recipient.

 

[soccerboy22]

Good for him for winning this.

 

[Orion]

It's not going to change much.

 

[Demon of Light]

Another purely political gesture by this institution. I find it hilarious that Norway is asserting the Norwegian Nobel Committee that awards this prize is independent of the government when it is appointed in its entirety by parliament. Past winners of the Peace Prize demonstrate clearly that it is a political institution that incorporates its political bias into decisions.

Naturally they would not think to award a critic of the Chinese government who actually exposes real issues, achieves real progress, and is at the same time not in prison. I mean, that would just ruin the whole point.

 

[ric27]

Another purely political gesture by this institution. I find it hilarious that Norway is asserting the Norwegian Nobel Committee that awards this prize is independent of the government when it is appointed in its entirety by parliament. Past winners of the Peace Prize demonstrate clearly that it is a political institution that incorporates its political bias into decisions.

Naturally they would not think to award a critic of the Chinese government who actually exposes real issues, achieves real progress, and is at the same time not in prison. I mean, that would just ruin the whole point.

Agree on the Nobel Prize thingy...

As an example - In 1994 it was awarded to Yasser Arafat. Arafat wasn't a Palestinian (born in Egypt), involved in the murdering of Ambassador Cleo Noel and 2 other diplomats, the Munich Olyimpic murders, etc, etc

The list is extensive to mention here...Yet, this individual was awarded this 'peace' thingy. An award that has gone to despots, dictators, and the likes for years has real relevance. It makes you wonder a little

 

[digsbe]

I don't give much credibility to Nobel prizes because I think the committee awards them to people based on political beliefs (heck, Obama won one and the only thing he did was have a D next to his name and be the president). However, I agree with this award and I am appalled at China's immature reaction to it.

 

[Demon of Light]

However, I agree with this award and I am appalled at China's immature reaction to it.

I think their reaction is quite sensible. Like I said the committee responsible for giving out this prize is appointed entirely by Norway's parliament. You will also note the only time they ever seem to consider a critic of the Chinese government is when that critic is in prison. Clearly it is less about actually awarding someone for promoting reform or progress in China and all about casting aspersions on the Chinese government.

There were many nominees mentioned who are more deserving of such a prize.

 

[Ben K.]

I think their reaction is quite sensible. Like I said the committee responsible for giving out this prize is appointed entirely by Norway's parliament. You will also note the only time they ever seem to consider a critic of the Chinese government is when that critic is in prison. Clearly it is less about actually awarding someone for promoting reform or progress in China and all about casting aspersions on the Chinese government.

There were many nominees mentioned who are more deserving of such a prize.

Even disagreeing with the award, I'm not sure how someone can justify media censorship as a sensible response. Which Chinese dissident do you feel would be more deserving anyway?

 

[Demon of Light]

Even disagreeing with the award, I'm not sure how someone can justify media censorship as a sensible response.

I am talking about their response towards Norway and the Nobel committee.

Which Chinese dissident do you feel would be more deserving anyway?

There are not any specific ones I can name off the top of my head, but there are ones I know about whose names I can't recall that are more deserving. Well, Hu Jia was at least more deserving than him, though I think there are still better choices. Do you not find it odd that they have never given a Peace Prize to someone in prison before, but then suddenly they decide to give this guy one?

China is correct in interpreting it as a slight against them, because ultimately it seems clear the point is not to actually honor anything the guy did, but simply make a negative statement about China.

 

[Ben K.]

I am talking about their response towards Norway and the Nobel committee.



There are not any specific ones I can name off the top of my head, but there are ones I know about whose names I can't recall that are more deserving. Well, Hu Jia was at least more deserving than him, though I think there are still better choices. Do you not find it odd that they have never given a Peace Prize to someone in prison before, but then suddenly they decide to give this guy one?

China is correct in interpreting it as a slight against them, because ultimately it seems clear the point is not to actually honor anything the guy did, but simply make a negative statement about China.

But Hu Jia is in prison too. He got a peace award from the European parliament a couple years ago and the Chinese government reacted in a similar manner. These things are inevitably political, since peace (or rather people who practice non-violent resistance, as these winners tend to be awarded for) is intrinsically political. Lutuli was imprisoned in 1960, so I'm not sure why you say no previous Nobel winners were in jail. I fail to see how Norway would benefit from pissing off China, I doubt the government had a direct hand in the selection.

 

[Demon of Light]

But Hu Jia is in prison too. He got a peace award from the European parliament a couple years ago and the Chinese government reacted in a similar manner.

I know he is in prison, just noting that he is one is more deserving. Most of the ones who have gone to prison however are generally less impactful than the ones who haven't. Granted, I do not remember all the names and circumstances.

Lutuli was imprisoned in 1960, so I'm not sure why you say no previous Nobel winners were in jail.

He was under house arrest, I think, and several have been under such circumstances when awarded the prize. At any rate apparently he was actually allowed to go to the ceremony.

I fail to see how Norway would benefit from pissing off China, I doubt the government had a direct hand in the selection.

I fail to see how the leaders of these various countries would benefit from meeting with the Dalai Lama when they know it will piss off China, but they still do it.

 

[ludahai]

I think their reaction is quite sensible. Like I said the committee responsible for giving out this prize is appointed entirely by Norway's parliament. You will also note the only time they ever seem to consider a critic of the Chinese government is when that critic is in prison. Clearly it is less about actually awarding someone for promoting reform or progress in China and all about casting aspersions on the Chinese government.

There were many nominees mentioned who are more deserving of such a prize.

Once again, you come out and support the thugs in Beijing. Their reaction is quite sensible?!?!? His wife is now under de facto house arrest and they are using this as an excuse to further harass dissidents in the country who do little more than call for the exercise of rights that are written in the PRC constitution, not to mention stepped up harassment of human rights lawyers in the country.

Makes sense?!?!? Yeah, only to those who support totalitarian thugs.

 

[ludahai]

I am talking about their response towards Norway and the Nobel committee.

Please tell me you are kidding. China always threatens and blusters when anyone does something they don't like. So, the Nobel committee awards someone who has received international recognition for his work against the tyrants in Beijing. Yeah, it is an understandable response -- the response of tyrants. It is sad that some like yourself have been so duped into supporting those tyrants that you consistantly defend them on this board.

 

[ludahai]

Do you not find it odd that they have never given a Peace Prize to someone in prison before, but then suddenly they decide to give this guy one?

Aung San Suu Kyi was under house arrest when she won the award in 1991. Bishop Tutu had been imprisoned PRIOR to receiving his prize in 1984, but had been released by the time he was awarded it. The same is true of Nelson Mendela.

He has been an advocate for peaceful change in China. The human rights situation in the country is atrocious. Liu and those like him deserve to be recognized for the work they are doing to bring change to one of the world's worst regimes.

 

[Ben K.]

Aung San Suu Kyi was under house arrest when she won the award in 1991. .

Oh yeah, that was probably the most obvious example and I doubt she got to collect it either.

 

[Demon of Light]

Once again, you come out and support the thugs in Beijing. Their reaction is quite sensible?!?!? His wife is now under de facto house arrest and they are using this as an excuse to further harass dissidents in the country who do little more than call for the exercise of rights that are written in the PRC constitution, not to mention stepped up harassment of human rights lawyers in the country.

Makes sense?!?!? Yeah, only to those who support totalitarian thugs.

What I am calling sensible is feeling this is a slight by Norway because ultimately it is a slight from an institution appointed by Norway's parliament. As far as the wife they are ultimately trying to keep her from using the prize to posture. I agree they should not be keeping her from speaking, but ultimately they are really just trying to keep her from doing some public stunt they feel will incite more public stunts and so on.

Please tell me you are kidding. China always threatens and blusters when anyone does something they don't like. So, the Nobel committee awards someone who has received international recognition for his work against the tyrants in Beijing. Yeah, it is an understandable response -- the response of tyrants. It is sad that some like yourself have been so duped into supporting those tyrants that you consistantly defend them on this board.

Anyone who says the yellow people should be more like the white people wins international recognition for their works when it comes to China. His ideas demonstrate no originality or provide any basis for real concrete progress. Basically it is the typical "China should adopt the exact same system that the white people made" nonsense. It is also laced with many comment denigrating China's government and honestly denigrating China itself. Personally, I think that is why they had him arrested. These dissidents who get arrested typically do not keep cool and reasonable. When people who do keep cool and reasonable publicly criticize the government they tend not to get arrested.

Liu Xiabo is not Nelson Mandela. Sure not everyone can be, but it is not like this was as close as they could get.

He has been an advocate for peaceful change in China. The human rights situation in the country is atrocious. Liu and those like him deserve to be recognized for the work they are doing to bring change to one of the world's worst regimes.

Many do such work without getting arrested and many of those same people actually get stuff done rather than just giving out bland criticisms that any one halfway informed on political science could make. Of course, if they gave it to someone who was not in prison they would have to acknowledge that there are dissidents who criticize the government and are not suppressed. That is what annoys me here. It is all about perpetuating a distorted image of China that demonizes them.

 

[Hatuey]

Relevance? Once again, you prove you have no capacity for debate...

They were nutty until they gave it to somebody you approved of. Once again, proving your ridiculous bias against anything Chinese.

 

[Orion]

I think this peace prize is more well deserved than when they gave it to Obama. That was pretty awful.

Liu's wife is under house arrest now and they aren't letting her talk to the media who have been flocking to her place in droves. I personally love whenever the topic of China's humanitarian crisis comes into the international limelight. It's quite disgusting. I visited Tibet and Xinjiang when I was last in China. The stuff I saw there was just... unspeakable. I will always have a love for Chinese culture and its ancient wisdom, but I will never stop hating their government. The fact that they have market support from the West shows that we are complete sell outs and that business values matter much more than our desire to spread universal human rights.

China needs a revolution badly and I hope I am alive to see it happen. Then again, I'm sure any revolution there will prompt the U.S. to help stop it. Gotta protect business after all.

 

[ludahai]

They were nutty until they gave it to somebody you approved of. Once again, proving your ridiculous bias against anything Chinese.

My rediculous bias against anything Chinese?!!? That is why I speak nearly fluent Chinese as a fourth language AND married an ethnic-Chinese wife... yeah, biased against the Chinese... :doh

You know, most people on these boards are mature enough to understand that sometimes people do things that they don't agree with but other times they do. I am not one of those who knee-jerk opposes the position of a person or a group because they are on one side of the political divide or the other -- unlike a couple of radical knee-jerk types I know on these boards...

 

[Demon of Light]

I think this peace prize is more well deserved than when they gave it to Obama. That was pretty awful.

Liu's wife is under house arrest now and they aren't letting her talk to the media who have been flocking to her place in droves. I personally love whenever the topic of China's humanitarian crisis comes into the international limelight. It's quite disgusting. I visited Tibet and Xinjiang when I was last in China. The stuff I saw there was just... unspeakable. I will always have a love for Chinese culture and its ancient wisdom, but I will never stop hating their government. The fact that they have market support from the West shows that we are complete sell outs and that business values matter much more than our desire to spread universal human rights.

China needs a revolution badly and I hope I am alive to see it happen. Then again, I'm sure any revolution there will prompt the U.S. to help stop it. Gotta protect business after all.

A revolution would be the worse thing to happen. People hail the fall of the Soviet Union like it was a wonderful step forward, but it was probably one of the worse outcomes. You guys who wax poetic about some romantic notion of the corrupt tyrannical regime falling under a sea of flowers, presuming you do not prefer a sea of blood, and people in China like Liu Xiabo who feed into that with their empty demands and anti-Chinese rhetoric only make the chances of that sea of blood higher.