Chinese ‘kill switches’ found hidden in US solar farms

[Taylor]

And we want an AF1 from Qatar???

 

[snakestretcher]

And we want an AF1 from Qatar???

How is Qatar relevant to a thread concerning China?

 

[ttwtt78640]

I thought that electrical panels/systems were required to have “kill switches” by the US’s National Electrical Code.

Are these nefarious or what is required?

I don’t see that mentioned in the article.

OK, but such grid back-feed prevention devices shouldn’t be controlled by the CCP.

 

[BirdinHand]

OK, but such grid back-feed prevention devices shouldn’t be controlled by the CCP.

Evidence they are seems to be lacking

 

[ttwtt78640]

Evidence they are seems to be lacking

Did you read the OP link?

The rogue devices, including cellular radios, were discovered in Chinese-made power inverters that are used to connect solar panels and wind turbines to electricity grids across the world, including the UK.

The hidden communications equipment could be deployed remotely to switch off inverters with potentially catastrophic results.

The discovery, reported by Reuters, will heighten concerns that China has installed covert malware in critical energy infrastructure throughout the US and Europe. The kill switches could be deployed at any time in the event of a confrontation between China and the West.

 

[BirdinHand]

Did you read the OP link?

Yep.

I see the words “could” and “potential”

Meaning no actual evidence that’s what they are


Just seems rather speculative. I’m also not very inclined to believe that there’s some grand Chinese conspiracy to shut down the grid in the US, go to war with the US, etc.

Overall, that makes no logical sense. China and the US have a very symbiotic relationship with one another. We need each other.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Yep.

I see the words “could” and “potential”

Meaning no actual evidence that’s what they are


Just seems rather speculative. I’m also not very inclined to believe that there’s some grand Chinese conspiracy to shut down the grid in the US, go to war with the US, etc.

Overall, that makes no logical sense. China and the US have a very symbiotic relationship with one another. We need each other.

Why allow that possibility (potential?) to exist?

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

It is part of the industrial revolution 4.0.

Fully integrated and connected machines. For manufacturers it is easier to create one version of product, but not enable features not paid for than have multiple lines. Heck BMW does this with heated car seats.

Those kill switches are just the ability to hook the panels up to a computer to check health, performance and other data points

Everything is becoming linked, including solar panels.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Huawei's misdeeds in this regard have been ongoing since at least around the early 2010s: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ne-found-hidden-backdoors-in-huawei-equipment

And yes, it would be nice to get further evidence from govts alleging backdoors and deliberate vulnerabilities. Unfortunately intelligence agencies are loathe to reveal such information due to that obviously providing their hostile counterparts clues about exactly what they know, and how they came to know it. Suffice to say, most of the West isn't banning Huawei telecom equipment for the hell of it, and if they wanted to advantage their domestic industries, which is the most likely alternative motive, they could far more easily and legitimately punish it over the Chinese govt's heavy and anti-competitive subsidy of the company.

I would very much doubt whistle blowers doing the actual work of security stripping the panels would first make things up and then Reuters, among the very best of all reporting institutions, would then fail to vet them, nevermind there is past precedent from China for this sort of thing.

Yes the west is banning Huawei for the heck of it

The NSA has worked with western telecoms to plant backdoor in everything. They don't want Huawei in western equipment as they would not be able to plant back doors in the tech.

Merkel was spied on by the US, so was Macron, by the US. RSA, the security code group was paid millions by the NSA to provide the encryption code

 

[BirdinHand]

Why allow that possibility (potential?) to exist?

Because at this juncture, we really don’t have an alternative

Biden’s Inflation Reduction Act has spurred some domestic manufacturing of solar panels, but nowhere near the capacity we would need.

Trump tariffs in term 1.0 and now 2.0 have hindered domestic manufacturing of solar panels

If this is something that is truly a national security concern - this Administration should take different course of action to spur more domestic production so we are not reliant upon foreign manufacturing. Tariffs =\= that outcome.

 

[Surrealistik]

It is part of the industrial revolution 4.0.

Fully integrated and connected machines. For manufacturers it is easier to create one version of product, but not enable features not paid for than have multiple lines. Heck BMW does this with heated car seats.

Those kill switches are just the ability to hook the panels up to a computer to check health, performance and other data points

Everything is becoming linked, including solar panels.

The problem with this legitimate use theory is that:

A: They weren't requested, in large part specifically for security reasons.

B: They were undeclared and undocumented.

C: These radio controls bypass firewalls, which is an egregious security breach and flaw.

D: These radio controls have the capacity to change parameters to the point of doing substantial damage to the devices or energy networks they're integrated with.

Yes the west is banning Huawei for the heck of it

The NSA has worked with western telecoms to plant backdoor in everything. They don't want Huawei in western equipment as they would not be able to plant back doors in the tech.

According to who, or what?

Even setting govt allegations aside, at the very least we have documented proof of Huawei deliberately sandbagging on and refusing to correct critical control related security vulnerabilities discovered by independent companies per the link I provided earlier.

Because at this juncture, we really don’t have an alternative

Biden’s Inflation Reduction Act has spurred some domestic manufacturing of solar panels, but nowhere near the capacity we would need.

Trump tariffs in term 1.0 and now 2.0 have hindered domestic manufacturing of solar panels

If this is something that is truly a national security concern - this Administration should take different course of action to spur more domestic production so we are not reliant upon foreign manufacturing. Tariffs =\= that outcome.

A desire for cheap solar panels does not necessitate blindly accepting blatant security breaches of our energy infrastructure.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Technological Advancements in Home Solar Panels for Malaysia

Discover the latest in home solar panel installation with top solar installers in Malaysia. Explore innovations in solar panels for homes in Malaysia.

www.milieusolar.com

Smart Solar Technologies
Smart technology integration into solar panels is another game-changer. Smart solar systems with advanced inverters and sensors enable real-time monitoring and performance optimization. These systems track metrics like energy output, detect shading or dirt on panels, and alert homeowners to potential issues. For those involved in home solar panel installation, adopting smart solar technology can offer clients an enhanced experience by ensuring their systems operate at peak efficiency and provide valuable insights into energy usage.

Such paranoia being promoted by the US government for something the solar panel companies are actively promoting as features in their products


No wonder Trump was elected,

 

[Taylor]

How is Qatar relevant to a thread concerning China?

What do you think the subject of the thread is? Let's walk through it together.

 

[BirdinHand]

A desire for cheap solar panels does not necessitate blindly accepting blatant security breaches of our energy infrastructure

They most definitely are not cheap

We truly do not have a domestic manufacturing capability to meet demand at any price point, period.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

The problem with this legitimate use theory is that:

A: They weren't requested, in large part specifically for security reasons.

B: They were undeclared and undocumented.

C: These radio controls bypass firewalls, which is an egregious security breach and flaw.

D: These radio controls have the capacity to change parameters to the point of doing substantial damage to the devices or energy networks they're integrated with.


According to who, or what?

Even setting govt allegations aside, at the very least we have documented proof of Huawei deliberately sandbagging on and refusing to correct critical control related security vulnerabilities discovered by independent companies per the link I provided earlier.


A desire for cheap solar panels does not necessitate blindly accepting blatant security breaches of our energy infrastructure.

Re point A

The makers are making one version of the panel but not enabling non requested features ie bmw heated seats

 

[BirdinHand]

Such paranoia being promoted by the US government for something the solar panel companies are actively promoting as features in their products

Yep.

These types of monitoring and “kill switch” capabilities are a necessary evolution of design.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Because at this juncture, we really don’t have an alternative

Sure we do. Inspect the devices to ensure they aren’t controllable by others remotely.

Biden’s Inflation Reduction Act has spurred some domestic manufacturing of solar panels, but nowhere near the capacity we would need.

Trump tariffs in term 1.0 and now 2.0 have hindered domestic manufacturing of solar panels

If this is something that is truly a national security concern - this Administration should take different course of action to spur more domestic production so we are not reliant upon foreign manufacturing. Tariffs =\= that outcome.

 

[Surrealistik]

Technological Advancements in Home Solar Panels for Malaysia

Discover the latest in home solar panel installation with top solar installers in Malaysia. Explore innovations in solar panels for homes in Malaysia.

www.milieusolar.com

Such paranoia being promoted by the US government for something the solar panel companies are actively promoting as features in their products


No wonder Trump was elected,

Re point A

The makers are making one version of the panel but not enabling non requested features ie bmw heated seats

My brother in Christ; these features were not actively promoted or known to the end user, which also specifically did not want such a vulnerable control system tied to the inverters; that is precisely the issue.

Absolute best case scenario the supplier was being negligent in modifying or building the panels to the customer's spec.

They most definitely are not cheap

We truly do not have a domestic manufacturing capability to meet demand at any price point, period.

Or inexpensive if you will.

Even if it is absolutely 'required' to purchase these panels from China, we shouldn't mutely accept this, and these panels obviously need to be vigourously inspected and, if necessary, amended, going forward.

 

[BirdinHand]

Or inexpensive if you will.

Even if it is absolutely 'required' to purchase these panels from China, we shouldn't mutely accept this, and these panels obviously need to be vigourously reviewed going forward

Take that up with the entities that ordered and installed them.

I still see no evidence of nefarious intent that can be proven.

 

[Surrealistik]

Take that up with the entities that ordered and installed them.

I still see no evidence of nefarious intent that can be proven.

If you wish to give the CCP the benefit of the doubt, that's certainly your prerogative; given their history, foreign policy goals and precedent, I'm not nearly so optimistic. I can at least agree there's no undeniable smoking gun RE: specific malicious intent however.

 

[element94]

Chinese ‘kill switches’ found hidden in US solar farms

Hidden cellular radios could be activated remotely with switches to cripple power grids in the event of a confrontation between the West and China

www.thetimes.com

Paywall removed here: https://archive.ph/3syeO



Not remotely surprising; China was already caught seeding heavily state subsidized, even dumped, telecommunications infrastructure per Huawei among other Chinese companies with exploitable backdoors and vulnerabilities per multiple reports, thus resulting in sweeping security motivated bans against their products in the West and among close allies such as Japan. While Trump's thoughtless and clumsy approach towards China and these issues leaves a great deal to be desired, this sort of thing underscores just how important it is to avoid and otherwise minimize dependency on our #1 geopolitical foe and rival for our strategic/critical goods and infrastructure.

Sounds, potentially, like an act of war.

 

[SoccerCoach]

Chinese ‘kill switches’ found hidden in US solar farms

Hidden cellular radios could be activated remotely with switches to cripple power grids in the event of a confrontation between the West and China

www.thetimes.com

Paywall removed here: https://archive.ph/3syeO



Not remotely surprising; China was already caught seeding heavily state subsidized, even dumped, telecommunications infrastructure per Huawei among other Chinese companies with exploitable backdoors and vulnerabilities per multiple reports, thus resulting in sweeping security motivated bans against their products in the West and among close allies such as Japan. While Trump's thoughtless and clumsy approach towards China and these issues leaves a great deal to be desired, this sort of thing underscores just how important it is to avoid and otherwise minimize dependency on our #1 geopolitical foe and rival for our strategic/critical goods and infrastructure.

Who needs a kill switch they all stop working at night. Get rid of them they dont work

 

[phoenix2020]

I thought that electrical panels/systems were required to have “kill switches” by the US’s National Electrical Code.

Are these nefarious or what is required?

I don’t see that mentioned in the article.

The article is extremely light on details. At most it describes “components” without actually describing a single one them. A relay? A mosfet? A cellular transceiver? A signal generator circuit? It’s all very wishy washy.

I’ll give it more credence when photographs and x-ray scans of the components are provided.

 

[dmpi]

Notice that we've never heard about the cause of the massive European power outage. The whole episode has been swept under the rug. Clearly there's geo-politics tied into energy. Nobody wants to say anything bad about green energy. China just might play into this too.

 

[Surrealistik]

The article is extremely light on details. At most it describes “components” without actually describing a single one them. A relay? A mosfet? A cellular transceiver? A signal generator circuit? It’s all very wishy washy.

I’ll give it more credence when photographs and x-ray scans of the components are provided.

Though I agree more details are better, and would very much appreciate more information so we could say, get a better sense of the scope of this problem (which might also help us determine intent; if the problem was specific to a very limited subset of panels for example it would lean towards error/negligence), I'm not sure how important the specific technical details regarding the composition and integration of the switches are (and I certainly don't find the two whistleblowers not disclosing them to Reuters is fertile ground for doubt); the most relevant part concerning the nature of the devices is that they're an unwanted and undisclosed security vulnerability that allows potentially damaging remote control and firewall bypass.