China threatens to attack secessionist Taiwan

[Arch Enemy]

Fried Rice,


Sometimes in the English language we use the word "You" to not directly talk about a single person, instead to talk about a group of people or organisms. I think he used "You" because you told represented HIM as part of the United States so he said You because you are apart of China and it's history. I doubt it was anything personal.

 

[Fried Rice]

I did some research and found this article which i think offer fair summary -

"One of the more extreme measures taken in an attempt to control population has been China’s one-child policy.

Following the consolidation of politically power by the Communists in China, the nation’s population exploded. Annual population growth exceeded 2 percent for most years between 1949 and 1974 (Tien et al 1992, p.6). Beginning in the mid-1970s, however, China abruptly shifted gears and fertility declined dramatically. The annual population growth rate has remained around 1.5 percent since the mid-1970s.

This sequence of events is significant mainly for this reason -- the one-child policy wasn’t adopted by China until 1979, yet China’s huge fertility drop occurred between 1970 and 1979 when live births fell from 34 per 1,000 people to 18 per 1,000 people. Since the introduction of the one-child policy in 1979, there has been no large drop in fertility and in fact China experienced a slight increase fluctuating around 21 births per 1,000 people in the 1980s (Tien, et al 1992, pp.6-8). As Tien, et al put it, the impact of the one-child policy has been minimal:

The TFR [Total Fertility Rate] never fell below a 2.5 child-per woman average in rural areas, although it dropped to about 1.2 in urban areas. By the mid-1980s, less than one-fifth of all eligible married couples had signed the one-child certificate -- a contract which granted couples and their child economic and educational advantages in return for promising not to have more than one child. Throughout the 1980s, nearly half of all reported births were second, third, or higher order births. Various surveys suggested that the desire to have at least two children remained strong among Chinese couples (Tien, et al 1992, p.11).

Why did the one-child policy fail? The likely explanation is that there are limits to how far government policies can push demographic changes. Policies emphasizing later marriage and fewer children in the 1970s clearly played a part in lowering total fertility rates. Contraceptive usage in China by the early 1980s, for example, was extraordinarily high for Asia at 71 percent of women of reproductive age.

The one-child policy, however, was strongly resisted by people, especially couples living in rural regions. Enforcing the one-child policy in the face of such heavy resistance would have required more forceful measures than the Chinese government was willing to use. This is the source of criticism of China from population advocates such as Garrett Hardin who argued China needs to more strictly enforce the one-child policy.

Finally, the one-child policy and the successful resistance to it should give pause to claims made in Western nations that there are up to 500,000 "missing" girls in China. The usual claim is that the "missing" girl phenomenon is caused by infanticide. In fact a far more likely explanation is that Chinese couples systematically fail to report the birth of girls. Tien et al note that figures on the sex ratios of adoptions bear this out:

Adoptions rose sharply in the 1980s. There were over 500,000 cases in 1987 and about 400,000 per year between 1984 and 1986, compared with fewer than 200,000 before the one-child policy. The extremely low sex ratios of 27 to 36 boys per 100 girls among the adopted children are not surprising; parents traditionally are more likely to give away girls, a practice that intensified under the one-child stipulation. When the adopted children by year of adoption are added to their respective cohort of births, the sex ratio at birth comes closer to normal for the years in question. This reduces the number of missing girls by half (Tien, et al 1996, pp.15-17).

In addition, girls in China, like girls in much of the developing world, receive far less attention and resources than boys. As a result the sex ratio of infant deaths in China averaged 114 over the 1980s (Tien et al 1996, p.16-7).

This low ratio suggest that girls receive less care and attention than boys in many Chinese homes, reducing the chance of survival of girls beyond their first birthday. Most importantly, this gender discrimination affects girls most adversely in the poorest areas

In adition it should also be noted that sex selective abortion and ultrasound to determine sex of child before birth are illegal in China. There is jail / fines etc for those who break the law. (Of course as everywhere...money can open many doors..) Actually China govt will soon move away from this policy as it will soon face other issue of one child looking after two parents. Maybe NYU think we will just kill all old people as well.

So - yes, for sure, there are some abortions (like most society) but nonsense to talk in terms of NYU. most Chinese wiull say One Child Policy was hard but good for the country and has helped our development and made China better place for all.

 

[RightinNYC]

I did some research and found this article which i think offer fair summary -

"One of the more extreme measures taken in an attempt to control population has been China’s one-child policy.

Following the consolidation of politically power by the Communists in China, the nation’s population exploded. Annual population growth exceeded 2 percent for most years between 1949 and 1974 (Tien et al 1992, p.6). Beginning in the mid-1970s, however, China abruptly shifted gears and fertility declined dramatically. The annual population growth rate has remained around 1.5 percent since the mid-1970s.

This sequence of events is significant mainly for this reason -- the one-child policy wasn’t adopted by China until 1979, yet China’s huge fertility drop occurred between 1970 and 1979 when live births fell from 34 per 1,000 people to 18 per 1,000 people. Since the introduction of the one-child policy in 1979, there has been no large drop in fertility and in fact China experienced a slight increase fluctuating around 21 births per 1,000 people in the 1980s (Tien, et al 1992, pp.6-8). As Tien, et al put it, the impact of the one-child policy has been minimal:

The TFR [Total Fertility Rate] never fell below a 2.5 child-per woman average in rural areas, although it dropped to about 1.2 in urban areas. By the mid-1980s, less than one-fifth of all eligible married couples had signed the one-child certificate -- a contract which granted couples and their child economic and educational advantages in return for promising not to have more than one child. Throughout the 1980s, nearly half of all reported births were second, third, or higher order births. Various surveys suggested that the desire to have at least two children remained strong among Chinese couples (Tien, et al 1992, p.11).

Why did the one-child policy fail? The likely explanation is that there are limits to how far government policies can push demographic changes. Policies emphasizing later marriage and fewer children in the 1970s clearly played a part in lowering total fertility rates. Contraceptive usage in China by the early 1980s, for example, was extraordinarily high for Asia at 71 percent of women of reproductive age.

The one-child policy, however, was strongly resisted by people, especially couples living in rural regions. Enforcing the one-child policy in the face of such heavy resistance would have required more forceful measures than the Chinese government was willing to use. This is the source of criticism of China from population advocates such as Garrett Hardin who argued China needs to more strictly enforce the one-child policy.

Finally, the one-child policy and the successful resistance to it should give pause to claims made in Western nations that there are up to 500,000 "missing" girls in China. The usual claim is that the "missing" girl phenomenon is caused by infanticide. In fact a far more likely explanation is that Chinese couples systematically fail to report the birth of girls. Tien et al note that figures on the sex ratios of adoptions bear this out:

Adoptions rose sharply in the 1980s. There were over 500,000 cases in 1987 and about 400,000 per year between 1984 and 1986, compared with fewer than 200,000 before the one-child policy. The extremely low sex ratios of 27 to 36 boys per 100 girls among the adopted children are not surprising; parents traditionally are more likely to give away girls, a practice that intensified under the one-child stipulation. When the adopted children by year of adoption are added to their respective cohort of births, the sex ratio at birth comes closer to normal for the years in question. This reduces the number of missing girls by half (Tien, et al 1996, pp.15-17).

In addition, girls in China, like girls in much of the developing world, receive far less attention and resources than boys. As a result the sex ratio of infant deaths in China averaged 114 over the 1980s (Tien et al 1996, p.16-7).

This low ratio suggest that girls receive less care and attention than boys in many Chinese homes, reducing the chance of survival of girls beyond their first birthday. Most importantly, this gender discrimination affects girls most adversely in the poorest areas

In adition it should also be noted that sex selective abortion and ultrasound to determine sex of child before birth are illegal in China. There is jail / fines etc for those who break the law. (Of course as everywhere...money can open many doors..) Actually China govt will soon move away from this policy as it will soon face other issue of one child looking after two parents. Maybe NYU think we will just kill all old people as well.

So - yes, for sure, there are some abortions (like most society) but nonsense to talk in terms of NYU. most Chinese wiull say One Child Policy was hard but good for the country and has helped our development and made China better place for all.

I'm curious as to where this article comes from, as well as where it ends, due to your own personal interjections.

 

[Fried Rice]

I'm curious as to where this article comes from, as well as where it ends, due to your own personal interjections.

Oh dear NYU - you do have poor opinion of me

I post the article in full EXCEPT for a line after the 1st sentence that read that Ted Turner favoured One Child Policy - who care what he think ? Rest of the post is in full with no edit on my part. It is from a USA site (well i think it USA) called www.overpopulation.com. I just added a couple of comment at end but that is obvious to see. I think this give fair and balance view. Sorry it didnt mention my slaughter of 121 million babies.

Fried Rice is not blinkered.

 

[Urethra Franklin]

The only french people I have encountered were nothing but stuck up snobs... please don't remind me of them. .

Look at it from their point of view. They were encountering YOU. Their snobbery is perfectly understandable.

Franklin, Si vous plait, Etais Unis n'est pas mal..."Designer Babies" c'est faux.

.

D'abord, c'est Mme. Franklin à toi jeune homme.
Deuxièmement, tu as toute à fait tort, et ton français est moche, comme ton anglais.

 

[Urethra Franklin]

You know nothing about America, and I don't really feel like explaining it to you, because it will obviously not measure up to whatever utopia you're from.

Roughly translated that means you have no argument to come back with.

 

[RightinNYC]

Oh dear NYU - you do have poor opinion of me

I post the article in full EXCEPT for a line after the 1st sentence that read that Ted Turner favoured One Child Policy - who care what he think ? Rest of the post is in full with no edit on my part. It is from a USA site (well i think it USA) called www.overpopulation.com. I just added a couple of comment at end but that is obvious to see. I think this give fair and balance view. Sorry it didnt mention my slaughter of 121 million babies.

Fried Rice is not blinkered.

I found another, more recent article on that same website you may find interesting. Here's an excerpt I liked:

And make no mistake the sex ratio difference is likely a direct result of the one child policy. Promfert cites research by American anthropologist Susan Greenhalagh who found that sex ratios in Chinese villages were closely correlated with how strictly the one child policy was enforced.

Or how about this one?

One of the major side effects of China's one-child policy has been the widespread use of sex-selective abortions by couples who want to have male children.

How can you claim this is humane?

 

[RightinNYC]

Roughly translated that means you have no argument to come back with.

Your last post, like most, had no real substance, and was just basically an ad hominem attack on me because I'm not a European socialist.

Your closemindedness and unwillingness to even entertain the possibility that there might be equally valid opinions other than your own makes debating with you in an adult manner impossible.

 

[Urethra Franklin]

Your last post, like most, had no real substance, and was just basically an ad hominem attack on me because I'm not a European socialist.

Your closemindedness and unwillingness to even entertain the possibility that there might be equally valid opinions other than your own makes debating with you in an adult manner impossible.

Like I said, you have no argument to come back with.

 

[RightinNYC]

Like I said, you have no argument to come back with.

Let's look at the amazing argument that I have apparently ignored, twice now:

We've already been there

I don't need to sink to twisting others' words, like yourself.

No, I don't come from France. I simply live there. Wrong again, you're so predictable.

Shame your English is so bad

No, but then it's not me taking cheap swipes at the non-English speakers of the forum. That's a rôle you've assumed.

No, they speak French; and in some regions Basque, Breton, Occident, Alscasien, Provençal etc.

I don't hate America. There are some beautiful countries on that vast continent: Brazil, Chile, Mexico for example. Or are you arrogant enough to assume you can misuse the term "America" to mean the USA?

So, you

a) let me know we'd already discussed something
b) sidestepped an argument
c) sidestepped claiming a country
d) Criticized my English
e) Criticized me for criticizing your English
f) Told me what languages were spoken in France
and g) Told me that you have a problem with using "America" to describe the US.

Wow, with such a deep and consequential palate of arguments to respond to, I wonder why I ignored them?

I really have no use for the rest of your "argument." You know nothing about America, and I don't really feel like explaining it to you, because it will obviously not measure up to whatever utopia you're from.

Oh, I remember now.

 

[Urethra Franklin]

Wow, with such a deep and consequential palate of arguments to respond to, I wonder why I ignored them?



.

Because you don't have plausible counterarguments.

 

[Arch Enemy]

D'abord, c'est Mme. Franklin à toi jeune homme.
Deuxièmement, tu as toute à fait tort, et ton français est moche, comme ton anglais.

You're really nice;

All you do is use smart ass comments to somehow "prove" your points. I haven't seen a thread yet (unless it's with your newly found lover) where you've been nice or even mentioning peoples attempts to communicate with you. I don't know what they're putting in your water over there in France but it's gotten you an ideology that people of France should be proud of their traditions? Why should they but criticize Americans? You also use things like "too young" to prove your point but all you're confirming is you're pretty much against everything American...

 

[Urethra Franklin]

You're really nice;

All you do is use smart ass comments to somehow "prove" your points. I haven't seen a thread yet (unless it's with your newly found lover) where you've been nice or even mentioning peoples attempts to communicate with you.
...

I suggest you read some of my interactions with pacridge, Kenneth T. Cornelius, anomaly, Contrarion, Naughty Nurse, Garza UK, Fried Rice etc.
You see, when people put forward coherent, intelligent arguments, they gain my respect, whether I agree with them or not. Even fant has a degree of my respect for his sheer persistance. When people refer to women as "sluts" they make it plain what they are from the start. Just as anybody referring to n*ggers or q*eers.
As for your references to my "lover" he is neither newly found, nor does he come on this forum. Or is that a "smart ass" comment of the kind you claim to dislike?

I don't know what they're putting in your water over there in France ...

Fluouride

but it's gotten you an ideology that people of France should be proud of their traditions?...

You'd be better off asking a French person about French traditions

Why should they but criticize Americans? ..

Perhaps you need reminding that while your mature fellow countrymen were pouring French wine down drains and renaming "freedom fries" nobody over here renamed "Avenue des Etats-Unis" or the métro station Franklin D. Rooesevelt. The US is pissed off with France because they dared to disagree. You even produced a racist "comedy" film called "Slap Her She's French" inciting violence in the very title. Imagine a film entitled "Slap her She's African-American" How acceptable would that be?

you're pretty much against everything American...

No not everything, as I've outlined in another thread, but most things, yes.

 

[RightinNYC]

Because you don't have plausible counterarguments.

To what?

What valuable argument did you make that was worthy of a response?

 

[Fried Rice]

I found another, more recent article on that same website you may find interesting. Here's an excerpt I liked:



Or how about this one?



How can you claim this is humane?

What nonsense you write - at least i put both viewpoints - you just scan for ramdon quote to support your "arguement' - you dont even debate - just try to make arguement. I imagine you are jobless loser - blame china for your emplty life.

Fried Rice Makes Big Yawn

 

[Arch Enemy]

Fluouride

Haha.

You'd be better off asking a French person about French traditions

I still don't understand you; You say you live in France but you don't know about the French Tradition.. I know you're not 100% French becasue of your knowledge of the English language. What are you an over seas student?

Perhaps you need reminding that while your mature fellow countrymen were pouring French wine down drains and renaming "freedom fries" nobody over here renamed "Avenue des Etats-Unis" or the métro station Franklin D. Rooesevelt. The US is pissed off with France because they dared to disagree. You even produced a racist "comedy" film called "Slap Her She's French" inciting violence in the very title. Imagine a film entitled "Slap her She's African-American" How acceptable would that be?

I, like many Americans, have never heard of that flim. The whole freedom fries thing was done by the "rednecks" of the south.. largely happened around here.. especially with the conservatives. I was disgusted with all of those actions to tell you the truth.. I actually am taking a French class in school.. the class is made up of 99% of Liberals and 1 student who is a conservative. I actually don't hate the French people it is just that the only one's i've ever known weren't nice at all they complained about why they liked France better than America.. but they chose to come to America.. I ask them if they'd leave the country with an oppurtunity they have always said "no". In my book , I believe that you respect the country you are in at a given time, if you want to go back to your homeland then do it.
I also have to learn that other people are not going to gently describe things to me.. you've made it evident that I will be thrown curve balls (I hate baseball).

 

[RightinNYC]

What nonsense you write - at least i put both viewpoints - you just scan for ramdon quote to support your "arguement' - you dont even debate - just try to make arguement. I imagine you are jobless loser - blame china for your emplty life.

Fried Rice Makes Big Yawn

What do you mean you put both viewpoints? You selected one article that was sympathetic toward China's policy, and you offered that. I didn't see any other viewpoint.

And the quotes I offered weren't random, they were representative of the articles they came from.

Also, last time I checked, "making an argument" constituted the greater portion of a debate.

And no, despite what you may think (based on I can't even imagine what), I am not a "jobless loser." I'm a full time student who works 20 hours a week in addition to that. Neither I or anyone I know has ever lost a job or anything else to China. I'm actually in favor of economic interaction with your country, I am just disgusted by its human rights policies and its methods of repression.

 

[Fried Rice]

What do you mean you put both viewpoints? You selected one article that was sympathetic toward China's policy, and you offered that. I didn't see any other viewpoint.

And the quotes I offered weren't random, they were representative of the articles they came from.

Also, last time I checked, "making an argument" constituted the greater portion of a debate.

And no, despite what you may think (based on I can't even imagine what), I am not a "jobless loser." I'm a full time student who works 20 hours a week in addition to that. Neither I or anyone I know has ever lost a job or anything else to China. I'm actually in favor of economic interaction with your country, I am just disgusted by its human rights policies and its methods of repression.

Dear NYU - i dont think you can talk about Human Rights when USA has such poor record - please refer to other thread "dark side of USA human rights"

I still believe my articly post is fair and balance - it does not proclaim all is good with the One Child Policy. You use loaded words such as "humane" which mean you automatically assume any difference to average is a result of forced abortion etc - this is nonsense - do you mean any country that does not meet your standard is also aborting all its babies ? This is ridiculous. There are many reasons for inbalances - you say you are young person so when you mature you will be able to see there is always bigger picture. Good luck with your study and hope they include some International Business skills.

Fried Rice is glad it is Sunday

 

[Arch Enemy]

(off topic)

Fried you mention it is Sunday, what religion are you? (if any)

 

[Fried Rice]

I am called Confucianist but this is not religion like catholic etc - it is more belief about human world. It is not religious lies to blind worker just to accept his lot in this life. It also is a mix of Tao and Buddhism. i think very few people in China would say they are religious in western sense of the term.

Fried Rice dislikes a church

 

[Arch Enemy]

ahhh I see yeah I know what that is..

I actually consider that more of a philosophy then a Religion..

that's cool.. nothing against you.

 

[akyron]

i think very few people in China would say they are religious in western sense of the term.

What is the difference?

China is a country with a great diversity of religious beliefs. The main religions are Buddhism, Taoism, Islam, Catholicism and Protestantism. Citizens of China may freely choose and express their religious beliefs, and make clear their religious affiliations. According to incomplete statistics, there are over 100 million followers of various religious faiths, more than 85,000 sites for religious activities, some 300,000 clergy and over 3,000 religious organizations throughout China. In addition, there are 74 religious schools and colleges run by religious organizations for training clerical personnel.

-Buddhism has a history of 2,000 years in China. Currently China has 13,000-some Buddhist temples and about 200,000 Buddhist monks and nuns. Among them are 120,000 lamas and nuns, more than 1,700 Living Buddhas, and 3,000-some temples of Tibetan Buddhism and nearly 10,000 Bhiksu and senior monks and more than 1,600 temples of Pali Buddhism.

-Taoism, native to China, has a history of more than 1,700 years. China now has over 1,500 Taoist temples and more than 25,000 Taoist priests and nuns.

-Islam was introduced into China in the seventh century. Nowadays in China there are ten national minorities, including the Hui and Uygur, with a total population of 18 million, whose faith is Islam. Their 30,000-odd mosques are served by 40,000 Imams and Akhunds.

-Catholicism was introduced into China intermittently in the seventh century, but it had not spread widely until after the Opium War in 1840. At present, China has four million Catholics, 4,000 clergy and more than 4,600 churches and meeting houses.

-Protestantism was first brought to China in the early 19th century and spread widely after the Opium War. There are about 10 million Protestants, more than 18,000 clergy, more than 12,000 churches and 25,000-some meeting places throughout China.

China has the following national religious organizations: Buddhist Association of China, Taoist Association of China, Islamic Association of China, Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association, Chinese Catholic Bishops' College, Three-Self Patriotic Movement Committee of the Protestant Churches of China, and China Christian Council.

Religious leaders and leading organs of the various religious bodies are selected and ordained in accordance with their own regulations.

 

[Fried Rice]

ahhh I see yeah I know what that is..

I actually consider that more of a philosophy then a Religion..

that's cool.. nothing against you.

Dear Arch - you are exactly right - it is more like philosophy - i should have thought of that word in first place.

Thanks!

 

[Urethra Franklin]

To what?

What valuable argument did you make that was worthy of a response?

Well you keep on responding, just a shame it's not with any resonable arguments.

 

[Urethra Franklin]

Haha.


I still don't understand you; You say you live in France but you don't know about the French Tradition.. .

THE French tradition? I think you'll find there's more than one.
I didn't say I didn't understand French traditions, I said you'd be better off asking a French person about them. You need to learn to stop misquoting people.

I know you're not 100% French becasue of your knowledge of the English language. .

I'm not at all French. I live in France - by choice, and am very happy with that choice. I am Slovene/Italian, brought up in the UK.

What are you an over seas student?
.

Far too old for that lovey

I, like many Americans, have never heard of that flim. The whole freedom fries thing was done by the "rednecks" of the south.. largely happened around here.. especially with the conservatives. I was disgusted with all of those actions to tell you the truth.. I actually am taking a French class in school.. the class is made up of 99% of Liberals and 1 student who is a conservative. I actually don't hate the French people it is just that the only one's i've ever known weren't nice at all they complained about why they liked France better than America.. but they chose to come to America.. I ask them if they'd leave the country with an oppurtunity they have always said "no". In my book , I believe that you respect the country you are in at a given time, if you want to go back to your homeland then do it.
I also have to learn that other people are not going to gently describe things to me.. you've made it evident that I will be thrown curve balls (I hate baseball).

Big hole; keep digging.
Like your slut comment, you say something and then try to backtrack with "but I don't really think like that......." Perhaps you'll mature as you grow up.