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China says its military 'drove away' US warship

I don't have a subscription and can read it just fine.



Domestic manufacturing production has been consistently growing for some time now, even adjusted for inflation.

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Interesting graph. Too bad it does not say at all what is being monitored in it. Number of units? Value? What exactly is being measured here?

I even tried a google search to see if I could find the original graph with the index, but no dice.

And FYI, I have no idea what the "Manufacturing Production Index" is. I am familiar with the "Industrial Production Index", but this is not it. And the IPI is not manufacturing, it deals mostly with things like mining, lumber, oil, and petrochemicals. I did multiple searches for "Manufacturing Production Index", and interestingly came up blank.

So once again, without knowing what this chart even is, what it is tracking, and what the basis of comparison it means absolutely nothing.

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Yes it is.

The rest of your post is just musings on things you don't understand.
You suffer from the idea of pretending you understand vast abstractions because you cannot possibly accept as true the idea that factories relocated to foreign countries cost American jobs.
 
You suffer from the idea of pretending you understand vast abstractions because you cannot possibly accept as true the idea that factories relocated to foreign countries cost American jobs.

Feel free to point out anywhere in this thread where I explicitly stated that outsourcing jobs overseas doesn't cost American jobs at all.
 
For you to prove that you would have to be able to know how many jobs would be here if we engaged in protectionism sufficient to practically mandate factories stay in America.

For me, it is not even "protectionism".

At one time, most people were proud to "Buy American". Companies used to shout it out, "This produce is made in the USA". For me, most of my life I have tried to always Buy American. Many times purposefully picking a more expensive but domestically made product over an import. In the same way that today I purposefully chose to purchase locally from local stores, and not "outsource" my purchases to the Internet where my money leaves my local economy.

It is the attitudes of the consumer that is doing this. Deciding that cost is the ultimate factor, and not keeping jobs in their community, or country.

Retailers have taken it on the chin this last year, due to lockdowns. But now that is ending, how many are going out and actually supporting their local community? Their local stores that have somehow managed to make it through COVID, and are barely hanging on?

I bet not many. And soon they will be gone also.
 
For me, it is not even "protectionism".

At one time, most people were proud to "Buy American". Companies used to shout it out, "This produce is made in the USA". For me, most of my life I have tried to always Buy American. Many times purposefully picking a more expensive but domestically made product over an import. In the same way that today I purposefully chose to purchase locally from local stores, and not "outsource" my purchases to the Internet where my money leaves my local economy.

It is the attitudes of the consumer that is doing this. Deciding that cost is the ultimate factor, and not keeping jobs in their community, or country.

Retailers have taken it on the chin this last year, due to lockdowns. But now that is ending, how many are going out and actually supporting their local community? Their local stores that have somehow managed to make it through COVID, and are barely hanging on?

I bet not many. And soon they will be gone also.
America was highly protectionist until the 1980s. It is natural to buy cheaper products. So we should bring back protectionism.

I also think the government should break up Amazon and charge crushing taxes on online retailers to bring back department stores. The fact these tech related companies also support the left and thus breaking them is punishing a political enemy is not a bad sign either
 
America was highly protectionist until the 1980s. It is natural to buy cheaper products. So we should bring back protectionism.

I also think the government should break up Amazon and charge crushing taxes on online retailers to bring back department stores. The fact these tech related companies also support the left and thus breaking them is punishing a political enemy is not a bad sign either

The lament of the buggy-whip makers.
 
The lament of the buggy-whip makers.

Blah blah blah. The buggy whip makers went on to other things in their own countries.

That is not even an argument, certainly not one against allowing an economic setup where a handful of oligarchs control the entire economy.
 
Yes, they did. That's the point.
No, it’s not. Because what you lefties did was turn over our manufacturing to communist states at rock bottom prices. The buggy whips still get made, just in China and Vietnam
 
It's from Ball State University, you can download a PDF of it here: http://projects.cberdata.org/reports/MfgReality.pdf

Interesting, but still does not say much.

From the last peak of the pre-recession year (2006) to the end of the recession (June 2009) all manufacturing sectors except transportation equipment experienced output declines. The demand for military equipment during this period sustained that sector. The deepest declines were in wood products, textiles, and apparels. These are both durable and non-durable goods, the latter of which are least sensitive to the business cycle, but highly impacted by international trade.

Almost a decade old, and it really does not break down much, including the source of components.

For example, I see growth in "Computers". Interesting, but how much of those goods are made in the US? And no, the courts have already stated that "Assembled in the US" is not the same as "Made in the US". I know that all of the major manufacturers from Apple and Dell to HP and the rest assemble here, but from components made overseas. The motherboard manufacturers all left decades ago, regardless of automation.

Things like "Military" really mean little, as there is actually a law that most of their items must be made domestically. And if that as of 2014 was the the only thing that sustained it, that obviously means the consumer side of it is dead.
 
Interesting, but still does not say much.

I guess if you only read it to pick out a few things to argue semantics, sure. The data overall is pretty clear, however.
 
Yes, they did. That's the point.

Then what are the textile workers making? The ones that made televisions for Motorola, Quasar, RCA, GE, Magnavox, and the like?

My aunt used to work for one of the major motherboard manufacturers in the US. But like most of the others, Beaver shut down over 20 years ago.
 
Then what are the textile workers making? The ones that made televisions for Motorola, Quasar, RCA, GE, Magnavox, and the like?

My aunt used to work for one of the major motherboard manufacturers in the US. But like most of the others, Beaver shut down over 20 years ago.

Well, they've all either found new jobs, retired, or died.

The wheel doesn't roll backwards. You can't turn back time.
 
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