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China: On Top of the World

What will be the role of China in a new world order?

  • Close Alliance and Trade Partner with the world

    Votes: 3 18.8%
  • Emerging power ready to pounce for past transgressions

    Votes: 6 37.5%
  • Systematic annihilation of enemies through economic battle

    Votes: 5 31.3%
  • Another Communist Boom before the Bust

    Votes: 2 12.5%

  • Total voters
    16

Quid Pro Quo

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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7693580/site/newsweek/

(Disclaimer: This isn't to incite another war thread, or what is right and what is wrong with China. This is to start a discussion on the rising economic value of China and how they are coming into being even greater than America in the world "game")

China: The one country who actually got Communism right in my opinion. Their economy is bustling, their people seem for the most part happier than they have ever been, and more countries are starting to offer flowers of peace and trade love to the great red nation.

Over a decade removed from the horrors of Tiananmen Square, China has seen a great reform in terms of how they deal with their own people and the world outside their borders. Where once was the mentality of thumbing their noses, and the likes of the US doing the same in return...there is now an understanding that there is profit for all who wish it through economic trade and business.

I'm going to cut this post a bit short here, because there are alot more points to make on it that I would like to put into responses. Simply, what do you see the role of China being in the world and what impact will it have on how things have been ran in the past and will be ran in the future?
 

ludahai

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China has some serious obstacles.

1. The amount of arable land is decreasing fast. Much of northern China is semi arid or arid, and it isn't getting any better. Increasing construction of factories is taking away a healthy portion of the good land that is left for cultivation. China is about the same size of the United States, but has about five times the population of the United States and barly one-quarter of the arable land. This is likely the greatest impediment to China's development as a super power.

2. Lack of transparancy. The economy is teetering on the brink. It is hanging in there right now, but one thing could send it into a collapse. A general global economic recession is among them. Energy prices is another. China is already having a serious problem meeting the energy needs of its citizens, and that isn't getting better anytime soon.

3. Government. I am not calling for immediate democratization, but the government needs to become more answerable to the people. It needs to focus on taking care of their own needs rather than beating the drums of war with countries like Taiwan and Japan. China needs to have constructive, peaceful relations with its neighbors. As it is, relations between China and the democracies of the region has been deteriorting markedly in recent years.

There is much more, but these are three of the biggest problems facing China today.
 

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As far as I am aware human rights abuses are still rampant in China, it is currently waging a terrorist war against the Muslim population in Western China, workers rights are still non-existent in many parts of China, and sweat shops still rife. As for diplomacy, well China are just waiting until the U.S. is unable to intervene and the Taiwan will be swiftly annexed.

And China is a dictatorship, therefore it is not Communist, not really anyway, that and they have privately owned businesses, hypocritical? I think so.
 

ludahai

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freethought6t9 said:
As far as I am aware human rights abuses are still rampant in China, it is currently waging a terrorist war against the Muslim population in Western China, workers rights are still non-existent in many parts of China, and sweat shops still rife. As for diplomacy, well China are just waiting until the U.S. is unable to intervene and the Taiwan will be swiftly annexed.

And China is a dictatorship, therefore it is not Communist, not really anyway, that and they have privately owned businesses, hypocritical? I think so.
1. You mean Chinese-occupied East Turkestan I presume.

2. 2009, if Hilary or some other weak-kneed Democrat becomes president, the Chinese may very well invade.
 

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1. You mean Chinese-occupied East Turkestan I presume
No I think what he means is in the Tibetan area is where the muslim pop most resides. Furthermore, that is the reason why the tibetan people want to annex themselves from china. They want to become there own country and there have been many many small insurections becasue of this. But you know those monks, they never want to fight so they will never become there own country. :lol:

2009, if Hilary or some other weak-kneed Democrat becomes president, the Chinese may very well invade.
Even though I would hate it that Hilary would ever be elected president China doesnt have the means to coordinate an invasion here in the US. They have no Navy. They only have a 100,000,000man army with very little airforce. So I have explained this before that if China would ever declare war on the US. The US would decimate the Chinese in a couple weeks.
 

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SKILMATIC said:
No I think what he means is in the Tibetan area is where the muslim pop most resides. Furthermore, that is the reason why the tibetan people want to annex themselves from china. They want to become there own country and there have been many many small insurections becasue of this. But you know those monks, they never want to fight so they will never become there own country. :lol:
There are few Muslims in Tibet. Tibetans are Buddhist. If you are referring to the fact that much of Qinghai is part of historical Tibet, there are Muslims living in the fringe of that territory. However, the Region the Chinese call Xinjiang ("New Borderland") or what was historically called East Turkestan, is home to large numbers of Muslims, as is Ningxia.


Even though I would hate it that Hilary would ever be elected president China doesnt have the means to coordinate an invasion here in the US. They have no Navy. They only have a 100,000,000man army with very little airforce. So I have explained this before that if China would ever declare war on the US. The US would decimate the Chinese in a couple weeks.
I was referring to Taiwan, though wait a few decades and we shall see.
 

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There are few Muslims in Tibet. Tibetans are Buddhist. If you are referring to the fact that much of Qinghai is part of historical Tibet, there are Muslims living in the fringe of that territory. However, the Region the Chinese call Xinjiang ("New Borderland") or what was historically called East Turkestan, is home to large numbers of Muslims, as is Ningxia.
Well budhists are much alike than that of muslims(I know they still arent the same) but still. It is the similarities of those religions is why the chinese have problems with the tibetans. Thats a fact. Chinese foreign exchange students are great to converse with on these matters.
But the rest of your anecdotes are correct.

I was referring to Taiwan, though wait a few decades and we shall see.
You were referring to taiwan how? That they coud invade the US? Or that Chinese would invade taiwan? Please explain. Thanks
 

ludahai

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SKILMATIC said:
Well budhists are much alike than that of muslims(I know they still arent the same) but still. It is the similarities of those religions is why the chinese have problems with the tibetans. Thats a fact. Chinese foreign exchange students are great to converse with on these matters.
But the rest of your anecdotes are correct.
Huh?!?!? How are Buddhists and Muslims similiar, other than the fact that they have received official scorn from the ChiCom regime (along with Christianity, Falunggong and countless other religions and groups.)

You were referring to taiwan how? That they coud invade the US? Or that Chinese would invade taiwan? Please explain. Thanks
That China could invade Taiwan in 2009.
 

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Huh?!?!? How are Buddhists and Muslims similiar, other than the fact that they have received official scorn from the ChiCom regime (along with Christianity, Falunggong and countless other religions and groups.)
Well according to my world religions professor, The buddhists and the Muslims hold much of there principles the same. The only difference is there beleif in a god system. The muslims beleive in an Allah and the Buddhits beleive in a Budha hence the name budhism. However, the budha isnt a god figure it is a man that has been "enlightened". And only the enlightened one would know if he has been enlightened. The muslims teachings are the quran and then Budhas teachings are more on a maditation methodaology. However, both religions carry most of the same principles. And for both religions it seems to have a direct correlation on which principles are always prone to infliction with people. (not incl. radicalism)
 

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SKILMATIC said:
Well budhists are much alike than that of muslims(I know they still arent the same) but still. It is the similarities of those religions is why the chinese have problems with the tibetans. Thats a fact. Chinese foreign exchange students are great to converse with on these matters.
But the rest of your anecdotes are correct.



You were referring to taiwan how? That they coud invade the US? Or that Chinese would invade taiwan? Please explain. Thanks
Well first off, I was referring to East Turkestan, hats off to ludahai for his intimate knowledge of the situation, on to your lack of it... Buddhists and Muslims similar? Do you have any real idea what you're talking about, I mean honestly, Islam is an Abrahamic faith that believes in the one true God, has a fairly violent history, and a reputation for violence which is far more relevant here. Buddhism on the other hand, well you know that religion of peace everyone is always talking about, yep, thats Buddhism. I could go into a few basic tenets of Buddhism, like the fact that it is not montheistic, or even polytheistic, it is more a philosophy, a search for enlightenment through work and meditation, with a strong tendency toward pacifism always, always, always.

As to China having problems with the Tibetan's, the only problem China ever had with Tibet was that it was not part of China, the occupation of Tibet is perhaps the most brutal, uncontreversial and definitely one of the saddest acts carried out in the 20th Century. Get a clue, please. China is one of the most brutal human rights abusers, and very few of it's victims, the vast minority, by far the vast minority of it's victims have ever deserved the abuse, repression and brutality foisted upon them. That includes Christians, Muslims, Pro-Taiwanese campaigners, farmers rights advocates, peace protesters, anti-communist protesters, but by far the most tragic and easily uncontroversial victims of Chinese oppression are (and I can't stress this enough) the Tibetans.

And if you don't know in regard to China, Taiwan and the U.S. who wants to invade who and why then you aren't capable of participating in this thread.
 

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Of course looking at ludahai's posts I don't really think I am able to participate in such a conversation.
 

ludahai

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freethought6t9 said:
Of course looking at ludahai's posts I don't really think I am able to participate in such a conversation.
Don't say that. I do have the advantage of living in Taiwan, having before lived in China and being conversant in the Mandarin language as well as studying contemporary China as a graduate student. However, anyone who has some knowledge of the situation there and hasn't been completely brainwashed by the government should participate in the discussion, even if it is from the perspective of learning. We all are students in a sense. I am learning things all the time. One of the blessings of being a teacher.
 

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i dunno, isn't the idea of China "overheating" kinda absurd? The only major problem it seems they are facing is the energy crisis, but that seems to be affecting the whole world, including the US. Otherwise, they've got a very large manufacturing base (growing much faster than the US's), and they got a huge labor force. They are a leading exporter and they are certainly not weak military wise. How much more economic security does China need?
 

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Well first off, I was referring to East Turkestan, hats off to ludahai for his intimate knowledge of the situation, on to your lack of it... Buddhists and Muslims similar? Do you have any real idea what you're talking about, I mean honestly, Islam is an Abrahamic faith that believes in the one true God, has a fairly violent history, and a reputation for violence which is far more relevant here. Buddhism on the other hand, well you know that religion of peace everyone is always talking about, yep, thats Buddhism. I could go into a few basic tenets of Buddhism, like the fact that it is not montheistic, or even polytheistic, it is more a philosophy, a search for enlightenment through work and meditation, with a strong tendency toward pacifism always, always, always.
Yes, I have already excalimed this.

Get a clue, please. China is one of the most brutal human rights abusers, and very few of it's victims, the vast minority, by far the vast minority of it's victims have ever deserved the abuse, repression and brutality foisted upon them. That includes Christians, Muslims, Pro-Taiwanese campaigners, farmers rights advocates, peace protesters, anti-communist protesters, but by far the most tragic and easily uncontroversial victims of Chinese oppression are (and I can't stress this enough) the Tibetans.

Enlighten me and tell me something I dont know.

And if you don't know in regard to China, Taiwan and the U.S. who wants to invade who and why then you aren't capable of participating in this thread.
Ok who said anyhting about no one knowing this? You are waaaay off my friend. Who are you speaking to? Cause I know you are directing this towards me.
 

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nkgupta80 said:
i dunno, isn't the idea of China "overheating" kinda absurd? The only major problem it seems they are facing is the energy crisis, but that seems to be affecting the whole world, including the US. Otherwise, they've got a very large manufacturing base (growing much faster than the US's), and they got a huge labor force. They are a leading exporter and they are certainly not weak military wise. How much more economic security does China need?
China's banking sector needs to be careful right now. THey have a very high ratio of non-performing loans. The state has provided subsidies to this point. However, by next year, the Chinese banking sector needs to internationalize in accordance to its WTO commitments. With the current rate of nonperforming loans, China's banks will not be able to compete. This could result in a meltdown of their economy.

At this point, the only way they can keep their economy afloat is by keeping their exports up. Domestic consumption is NOT the major driver of their economy. The only way they can keep exports up is through artifically deflating their currency, which they have been doing for nearly a decade now. This also hurts their neighbors to the south as well. They are also reliant on foreign investment.

If China floats its currency, that will take away one of the major incentives for foreign investment in China. Right now, China's growth is based on a very soft foundation. The removal of the sand from that foundation may not cause a collapse, but it may very likely bring China back down to earth.
 

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What has really been confusing me lately is talk on this site of the massive debt the U.S.owes to China. Now I would assert that this is simply not the case, in fact, someone also told me that the U.S. owes Japan a large amount and I am almost positive that Japn owe the U.S. the single largest debt owed by one nation to another in the world today.

And if you look at the huge outcry recently in regards to Chinese attempts to buy Unocal the former assertion seems particularly ludicrous.
 

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What's going on in China will not last.
 

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The growing Chinease military threat continues to advance. I like to believe that a world would be a better place if it were more peaceful, and if China has no security problems, why the military build-up?


China has successfully flight-tested a submarine-launched missile that U.S. officials say marks a major advance in Beijing's long range nuclear program.

http://www.washtimes.com/national/2...02521-5027r.htm
 

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The growing Chinease military threat continues to advance. I like to believe that a world would be a better place if it were more peaceful, and if China has no security problems, why the military build-up?
Becasue they are chinese, thats what they do.

Sorry, I really dont know what to tell you. But since we are on the point I would assume you would think that we should disarm and dismantle every military installation we have becasue it brings about a killing conotation? That way the chinese you suspect wil disarm as well? And the N. Koreans for that matter?
 

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Because, just like America and the U.S.S.R., their lifestyle is protected better by a big military and foreign diplomacy. They haven't done anything that hasn't been done before them. The U.S.S.R. fell apart. Does the same fate eventually belong to the Chinese?
 
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SKILMATIC said:
Becasue they are chinese, thats what they do.

Sorry, I really dont know what to tell you. But since we are on the point I would assume you would think that we should disarm and dismantle every military installation we have becasue it brings about a killing conotation? That way the chinese you suspect wil disarm as well? And the N. Koreans for that matter?
Maybe ideally, but in all actuality China will probably be a new world superpower. Because they are the only hope for the poor and weak victims of the imperialist American power, maybe China will be able to oppose US domination. China could be the hope for 95% of the world that is not American, but is dominated by them. The recent agreement of Iran to provide oil to China for 10 years may be the most significant event of the balance of power this world so desperately needs. China is also a nuclear power, and has to be, as long as we are, as the US cannot even dream of asking China to disarm as long as we have them ourselves.
 

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kal-el said:
The growing Chinease military threat continues to advance. I like to believe that a world would be a better place if it were more peaceful, and if China has no security problems, why the military build-up?
Simply so that China can control the East Asia region. THey already plan to take over Taiwan, they have taken an island from the Philippines back in 1997 and claim the entire South China Sea as belonging to them. They also claim the East China Sea right up to about the Ryukyu Islands. They claim significant portions of northeastern India, northern Burma and pieces of Pakistan and Afghanistan. They also claim to hold historical claims to part of Kazakhstan and VietNam.

This is a country that is looking to expand. They have an expansionist mentality. THey will use military control to rule over other countries if they are given the chance. Taiwan is likely to be their first attempt. Unless the U.S., Japan and the rest of the free world stop them there, East Asia is going to be the source of major conflict int he 21st century, NOT Europe (as it was in the 19th and 20th.)
 

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kal-el said:
Maybe ideally, but in all actuality China will probably be a new world superpower. Because they are the only hope for the poor and weak victims of the imperialist American power, maybe China will be able to oppose US domination. China could be the hope for 95% of the world that is not American, but is dominated by them. The recent agreement of Iran to provide oil to China for 10 years may be the most significant event of the balance of power this world so desperately needs. China is also a nuclear power, and has to be, as long as we are, as the US cannot even dream of asking China to disarm as long as we have them ourselves.
HAHAHAHAHA! China doesn't seek to liberate. They seek to enslave. Their best friends in the world are the likes of North Korea, Burma, Pakistan, Sudan, Libya and Laos. Their first goal is to separate the Taiwanese people from their freedoms. Frankly, most Taiwanese people would rather have the protection of your "imperialist American power" than to have communist totalitarian rule imposed on the 23 million peace loving people of this country.

I hope you don't actually believe that the U.S. is an "imperialist power" and that China will exercise benevolence. If you do, I will nominate you for the "Head in Sand" award.

Note: Mods, that would make a GREAT emote... osterich with its head in the sand... come on, I know you want one.... :)
 

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"They already plan to take over Taiwan, they have taken an island from the Philippines back in 1997"

When did the U.S. leave the Phillipines as a occupied protector and why does anyone still question why our military has a forward presence?

The Chinese are our next Soviet Union. It will be the cold war part II. Why not? There were two World Wars.
 

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ludahai said:
HAHAHAHAHA! China doesn't seek to liberate. They seek to enslave. Their best friends in the world are the likes of North Korea, Burma, Pakistan, Sudan, Libya and Laos. Their first goal is to separate the Taiwanese people from their freedoms. Frankly, most Taiwanese people would rather have the protection of your "imperialist American power" than to have communist totalitarian rule imposed on the 23 million peace loving people of this country.

I hope you don't actually believe that the U.S. is an "imperialist power" and that China will exercise benevolence. If you do, I will nominate you for the "Head in Sand" award.

Note: Mods, that would make a GREAT emote... osterich with its head in the sand... come on, I know you want one.... :)
While I certainly believe what you say, I hope you do not think this is true of America, they do not seek to liberate and they are not benevolent, although in many parts of the world Soviet intervention was largely a reaction to U.S. intervention, which was rarely (if ever) benevolent. I don't believe it will be necessary for China to act in this way before nations begin calling them for aid against America.

And although the U.S. rarely captures territory (anymore) U.S. foreign policy is highly expansionist, albeit through the use of proxies. It is the expansion of markets I refer to, and whatever you may think, this is not due to free trade, but military intervention (direct or otherwise) and the support for what are predominantly right-wing military juntas, kept in power by American 'benevolence'. The point is, it was these policies that forced the Soviets hand, and led to the build-up of militaries around the world. The same could happen in regard to U.S.-China relations as happened with Soviet relations.
 
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