• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

China blinked

Mycroft

Genius is where you find it.
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
115,463
Reaction score
54,370
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
— and Trump clearly won the first round of his tariff war

The president had Chinese leader Xi Jinping on the ropes. Trump’s 145% tariffs on Chinese goods landed a crushing blow to Beijing’s economy, already staggering under the weight of rising unemployment, unsustainable debt, and rising bankruptcies.​
​
All this is why China, as soon as the tariffs were announced, called for a meeting. Not long after, China’s finance minister, Lan Fo’an, traveled to Washington, DC to meet with Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent. The meeting was held in the basement of the International Monetary Fund and, at China’s insistence, was kept secret.​
​
This meeting paved the way for last week’s confab in Switzerland, at which China made some major concessions, reducing its tariff rate on US goods to 10% and, even more important, promising to stop the flow of deadly fentanyl into the US.​
​
The final lesson learned from Trump’s tariff strategy is that mighty China, the Communist giant supposedly poised to dominate the world of the 21st century, is a paper tiger.​
​
In the end, Trump decided not to use America’s vast leverage to push China into collapse, with all of the unpredictable consequences that might ensue for the Chinese people and the world. But now he knows he could.​
​
And, equally importantly, the Chinese leadership knows this too. They also know that, this time around, Trump is starting early — still has plenty of time to act if they renege on the deal.​
​

China now needs to be very careful and not engage in their usual delaying tactics to avoid complying with Trump's demands. If they don't, they'll find themselves, once again, facing crippling US tariffs.

Trump isn't playing around.
 
Yes, Trump dropped the equivalent of a nuclear bomb on the world's economy to go after China. Most presidents would have gone for a more strategic, focused attack, but Trump has to do everything big. The repercussions for the U.S. will be the worst and are only beginning. We'll likely see things go from bad to worse over the next few months. Hopefully, it's worth it in the long run or I'm somehow wrong, but the ripples are already starting to hit our smaller businesses, agriculture, and soon the larger corporations.
 
Xilnik said:
Yes, Trump dropped the equivalent of a nuclear bomb on the world's economy to go after China.
Click to expand...
He had to.

He cut off China's main tactic to avoid the effects of the tariff. That is, using other countries as a conduit to keep their products flowing into the US.

Xilnik said:
Most presidents would have gone for a more strategic, focused attack, but Trump has to do everything big.
Click to expand...
Most Presidents would have let China have their way like the Biden administration did when they refused to force China to honor the agreement they made with Trump during his first term.

That set everything back, which forced Trump to use more forceful economic tactics this time.

Given the data so far, it's clear that you ARE wrong.
 
I don't know what data you're following, nor do I care. The reality of the situation has been reported in multiple economic sectors. As far as being tough with China, there were ways to do so without alienating ourselves. It was Trump who was wrong.
 
Xilnik said:
I don't know what data you're following, nor do I care.
Click to expand...
Obviously.

You don't care about the facts.

Xilnik said:
The reality of the situation has been reported in multiple economic sectors.
Click to expand...
Reported by whom?

Xilnik said:
As far as being tough with China, there were ways to do so without alienating ourselves.
Click to expand...
Really?

Tell me some of those ways.

Xilnik said:
It was Trump who was wrong.
Click to expand...
And yet, Trump is winning.

Go figure.
 
He likes to put on a show so he can look like he's doing big things, which is why it's good to look beyond the smoke and mirrors and see what's actually happening. Those who don't end up like the OP and the cited article, where in the face of reality, they have to craft a narrative where Donnie Boy always has to appear being on top, because in the end this is about petty people needing to feel like they're winning. What's funny here is the narrative folks like the OP present ignores the backpedalling Donnie Boy's had to due as a result of the market reactions.

Of course the main fact here is no nations wanted these tariffs or having to deal with them, so of course they're going to do their best to avoid them in order to protect their own economies. Their actions are then taken as signs of "WINNING!" by the MAGAverse, which is its own comedy show. What will be important in throughout this fiasco is assessing each of the deals and determining what the actual benefits are. That will be important, given the rather broad way Donnie Boy's presented the trade issue which was way over simplistic.
 
So, Chinese consumers pay 10% and American consumers pay 30%. How is that a win?

And since the was a secret meeting, where is the Post getting its info?
 
Your lies don't work, @Mycroft. Consider changing your account name, making your profile private, and pretending you never said any of this insanely stupid bullshit.

Michael Cole said:
So, Chinese consumers pay 10% and American consumers pay 30%. How is that a win?

And since the was a secret meeting, where is the Post getting its info?
Click to expand...

I mean...

We all know what's going on. Trump did a thing, so Mycroft has to praise it as brilliant.
 
Michael Cole said:
So, Chinese consumers pay 10% and American consumers pay 30%. How is that a win?
Click to expand...
What makes you think American consumers are going to buy Chinese products that cost 30% more than they used to?

Michael Cole said:
And since the was a secret meeting, where is the Post getting its info?
Click to expand...
The NYT gave a link to an article from Financial Times about the secret meeting.
 
Well, Bessent did a thing. And it looks like his Chinese counterpart got the best of him.
 
Mycroft said:
Obviously.

You don't care about the facts.


Reported by whom?


Really?

Tell me some of those ways.


And yet, Trump is winning.

Go figure.
Click to expand...
Correction: I don't care about the fiction that you believe to be facts. Economic experts have widely reported the consequences of Trump's tariff policies:

  1. Forbes: Analysts warn that Trump's tariffs have caused supply chain disruptions, increased consumer prices, and uncertainty for investors, with long-term risks to U.S. economic stability. (Source)
  2. Wall Street Journal: Reports highlight that Trump’s 145% tariffs have placed severe pressure on American manufacturers, forcing layoffs and production cuts as costs skyrocket. (Source)
  3. PBS: Experts debate whether Trump’s trade war will produce economic leverage, but small business owners are already seeing declining profits, reduced imports, and rising operational costs. (Source)
  4. U.S. Chamber of Commerce: Business leaders warn that tariffs could cost American companies billions, with China adjusting supply chains to bypass U.S. markets, diminishing Trump’s intended pressure. (Source)

Trump’s approach has created economic instability. The long-term consequences remain uncertain, but early indicators suggest American businesses will bear the brunt of the fallout.

For example:
  • The Penn Wharton Budget Model projects that Trump's tariffs will reduce long-run U.S. GDP by 6% and wages by 5%, with middle-income households facing a $22K lifetime loss. (Source)
  • The Tax Foundation estimates that Trump's tariffs will reduce U.S. GDP by 0.7% and impose an average tax increase of $1,190 per household in 2025. (Source)
  • Leading economists, including Justin Wolfers and Lawrence Summers, have warned that Trump's tariffs could destabilize global markets and cost American families thousands. (Source)
  • Small businesses are particularly vulnerable, with analysts noting that Trump's tariffs have led to price hikes, supply chain disruptions, and financial strain on local retailers. (Source)

Other options Trump had that would have made far more sense:
  1. Work with nations we had strong trade agreements with to cut off trade to China and put pressure on China to deal more fairly with the rest of the world in addition to the U.S.
  2. Leverage diplomatic negotiations to secure trade concessions without resorting to extreme tariffs that harm American businesses.
  3. Target specific industries rather than imposing broad, sweeping tariffs that disrupt entire economic sectors.
  4. Negotiate gradual tariff increases while allowing companies time to adjust, reducing economic shockwaves.

Trump’s approach has created economic uncertainty, and the long-term consequences remain to be seen.
 
Last edited:
Why should we care about the opinion of a RW person who has spent his life hating China?
 
Mycroft said:
What makes you think American consumers are going to buy Chinese products that cost 30% more than they used to?
Click to expand...
Because somebody has to pay. What makes you think Walmart is going to eat the cost?

Mycroft said:
The NYT gave a link to an article from Financial Times about the secret meeting.
Click to expand...
It's a secret link. Find one that I can read, and then I can see whether the Post is lying.

So, how is 10% for Chinese consumers but 30% for American consumers a win? You'll need to go a little deeper than your deflection above.
 
Whether or not your 'Opinion' article is true, you do realize that while Trump may be hurting China's economy, he is also hurting millions of lower and middle-income Americans.
 
Mycroft said:
Please explain your contention.
Click to expand...
Every county in the world will enter trade talks willingly no need to threaten with tariffs.
Trump hurts the US economy and hurts the Chinese economy with his stupidity. While doing so Trump engages in a tariff war with the rest of the world.
The rest of the world starts to get together and work on deals without resorting to tariffs to get them started (which is always unnecessary).
Trump then realizes that the economy is going poorly and his approval dropping so he lowers the tariffs and claims victory because the Chinese are willing to talk which they were willing to do before he implemented the tariffs.
End result The US economy has been damaged and worse than that the rest of the word no longer considers the US a reliable partner so they are all working together to trade w

There is a reason Trump is whining on Truth social about Walmart raising prices and demanding they eat his tariffs. His tariffs are hurting the US economy and unlike China Trumps approval ratings matter in a democracy
 
 
Trump was faced with a full embargo from China and he backed down. We'll already see some supply chain issues just from what he's done already. He couldn't face the full-blown repercussions of his insanity.

So Trump balked, he backed down again. China gave up pretty much nothing with only an agreement to meet again in the future to discuss a deal. Trump the Chump ****ed up again.
 
“Art of the Deal”

 
The AntiDonald said:
Whether or not your 'Opinion' article is true, you do realize that while Trump may be hurting China's economy, he is also hurting millions of lower and middle-income Americans.
Click to expand...
The CPI doesn't support your contention.
 
Typical Trump supporters puffing up their chests in good times and then blaming everyone else but their idol when things go to shit.

China might appear to be caving in the eyes of the simple-minded, but they play a long game. Always have. Guarantee when prices start to go up and supply chains start to suffer, that same lot will blame Joe Biden, or Globalists, or Democrats, or the fake MSM.
 
Mycroft said:
The CPI doesn't support your contention.
Click to expand...
Let's see how well that statement ages over the next few months!!

If CPI increases do stay low, it will be because Trump has engineered a completely unnecessary recession.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…