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China bans government use of Windows 8

I've been working in the industry for 14 years now and got started supporting the Win98-->XP transition. This all sounds so familiar to me. "Why' are they dropping Windows 98? XP is too slow and buggy!"

People seem to forget how long it took to make XP the OS that everyone loves today.

I wonder how many of the XP users here use the 64bit version? I wonder if the 32bit folks realize how much of their ram is being wasted by the asinine way 32bit XP addresses ram?

I wonder if they have just gotten used to the hard drive churning all the time, non stop, because of the way XP treats pagefiles (answer: like a baby treats a diaper)? I wonder how often they defragment their hard drive and other archaic "fixes" to resolve XP's shortcomings?

I wonder how many XP users just take it for granted that you need to reinstall XP every year and a half to flush the myriad untraceable crap that XP writes to the registry and hard drive and then seems to forget?

How old are the peripherals plugged into the XP desktop? Don't expect to find drivers online.

I will grant that if anyone is planning on installing Windows 7 or 8 on a system that they bought with XP installed then they are going to have bad times. The XP OS is 13 years old! It is as polished as it can get and it is still problematic in a number of ways.

I'm betting the autocad issue mentioned here has more to do with an old copy of autocad than a new OS.

Also, for the clingers, try the free Virtual PC for windows 8 and install your precious XP in a virtual environment or, better yet, P2V your existing machine to the Windows 8 Virtual PC and have a fully portable copy of XP that you can move from PC to PC as you upgrade.

If Windows 8 is too much change for you, at least upgrade to a Windows 7 machine and P2V your old decrepit system to it. :2razz:
 
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You've also claimed hundreds of complaints by people who repair computers for a living don't know as much as you because your one anecdote.

That's what I'm talking about.

My one anecdote? Are you talking about my screenshot? That wasn't an anecdote. That was direct proof a particular "expert" was full of crap.

You could have spent half that amount and not upgraded for 5 years. I spent $850 on my last computer in 2008 (bought it from Staples, surprisingly) and it still rocks quite well.

LOL!! I doubt that store-bought computer you bought in 2008 will run Crysis3, Battlefield4, Metro 2033 or any other high system demanding game at max settings...and be even remotely playable. Mine will.

I'm still not seeing how that cost you $3500. Or maybe I should say WHY it cost you $3500. I think someone took you for a ride.

Let's say a top notch graphics card is roughly $300. Two of them is $600. 16 GB of RAM ought to run about $200. Figure a dollar per GB for the SSD and you're at a total of $1050. Another $175 for your two hard drives. $350 for the processor (which would be one of the best processors available). That puts us at $1575.

I'm not sure how your case, cooling and power supply cost you $2000.

I'm not really questioning your number so much as I am thinking you might have gotten taken for more than you should have paid, especially for what your likely needs are.

A "top notch" graphics card is roughly $300?? Is that a joke? When I built my system, I bought two of the BEST graphics cards available and they had just been released. The GTX 680. I even had to wait a bit to get them because they were in short supply at the time. They cost me $500 each.

$350 for the processor? Again...don't make me laugh. This is what I got...and it wasn't even top of the line a year and a half ago when I built my system, but it's much better than your "$350 processor". https://www.google.com/shopping/pro...&sa=X&ei=DeaEU9S-Cou2yASl_oCoDw&ved=0CMIBELkk

Heck, my motherboard cost me more than what you say a top notch graphics card should cost.

But then, coming from someone who thinks an $850 store-bought computer "rocks", I can see how you think I spent too much money. As someone who knows a bit about computers and components, I'll have to disagree with you.
 
1. I did show evidence your expert is full of crap...a screenshot that directly contradicts his statement. Who cares if he is highly quoted if what he says is wrong?

2. You didn't say why your CAD software wasn't working. You only said it works with XP, but not with Win8. Cool...that means your software doesn't work with Win8. It DOESN'T mean that Win8 is not working.

3. You can offer all the opinions of incorrect idiots that you want. That only means you are an idiot for accepting their word for things they are wrong about. I don't accept erroneous crap from people. shrug...

Once again, you posted without substance.
 
Oh...there is another alternative for the average user. One that doesn't require the added expense of running a server version on their desktop and that saves them the time and effort of tilting at windmills (complaining to MS). They only need to run Win8 in desktop mode. They never have to see the tiled interface if they don't want to.

In regard to MS Office, I agree. I use LibreOffice, myself. Saves me money.

Then perhaps you can help me. When Windows 8 arrived I put it on two of my computers. I was able to do what you suggest by putting in a third party Win7 type start button. When the systems upgraded automatically one night to Win 8.1 I was never able to use the start button again. MS replaced it with a start button that goes straight to the tile factory. Do you have a third party product that actually allows you to use Win 8.1 completely in desktop mode. If you do, let me know. I have my credit card ready.
 
Once again, you posted without substance.

LOL!!!

Without substance?? What more substance do you need besides an actual screenshot that proves your expert is full of crap?
 
It shows that China's government isn't as incompetent as our current government.

If Obama were to outlaw Windows 8, he could go down in history as a competent POTUS who put America before Wall Street.
 
Then perhaps you can help me. When Windows 8 arrived I put it on two of my computers. I was able to do what you suggest by putting in a third party Win7 type start button. When the systems upgraded automatically one night to Win 8.1 I was never able to use the start button again. MS replaced it with a start button that goes straight to the tile factory. Do you have a third party product that actually allows you to use Win 8.1 completely in desktop mode. If you do, let me know. I have my credit card ready.

First of all, I don't suggest anyone install a 3rd party program...not even to get the start button. But if you really cannot live with out that thing, it's your choice to do so. You might consider that a little later this year MS will be releasing it's Update 2 that is expected to include a fully functioning start button. I posted a picture of it earlier in this thread.

Second of all, I don't think it's the fault of MS that 3rd party programs stop working when MS releases an upgrade. That often happens...especially with drivers. If you paid for that 3rd party program to get the start button, I'm guessing they upgraded their program when it stopped working. I think they should provide that upgrade to you free of charge.

Third...I didn't use the start button in Win7 so I have no need for it in Win8. Sorry, but I haven't looked at any of those 3rd party programs. I can give you this link from a very credible source who did a review of a bunch of those programs. Best Windows 8 Start Menu | Maximum PC

I hope this helps.

Oh...I should mention that if all you want to do is to boot directly to the desktop, it's very easy to do with Win8.1. See this link: http://www.7tutorials.com/how-boot-desktop-windows-8-skip-start-screen

I should also mention that Win8.1 Update 1 sets booting to desktop as the default action if you are using a PC. If you haven't installed Update 1 yet, you should.
 
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My one anecdote? Are you talking about my screenshot?
No, I am not. How can you hope to converse if you cannot even remember what's being said?

LOL!! I doubt that store-bought computer you bought in 2008 will run Crysis3, Battlefield4, Metro 2033 or any other high system demanding game at max settings...and be even remotely playable. Mine will.
That's.....great? At max settings? No, but you don't seem to understand my point. I paid $850 for a system which COULD play the top of the line games of the time. You paid $3500. Do you get it now?

A "top notch" graphics card is roughly $300?? Is that a joke?
No, it's based on pricing that I've done for a year now. Here, you can see for yourself:

PassMark Software - Video Card Benchmarks - High End Video Cards

$310 for GeForce GTX 770.

When I built my system, I bought two of the BEST graphics cards available and they had just been released. The GTX 680. I even had to wait a bit to get them because they were in short supply at the time. They cost me $500 each.
Okay, add an extra $400 to your total and you're still paying $1600 for the other things.

$350 for the processor? Again...don't make me laugh. This is what I got...and it wasn't even top of the line a year and a half ago when I built my system, but it's much better than your "$350 processor". https://www.google.com/shopping/pro...&sa=X&ei=DeaEU9S-Cou2yASl_oCoDw&ved=0CMIBELkk
An i7-4770k processor costs $340 on Newegg. It performs at roughly the same level as the one you apparently spent $250 more dollars on.

Intel Core i7-4770K - Newegg.com
PassMark - CPU Benchmarks - List of Benchmarked CPUs

Like I said, it seems as if you got taken.

Heck, my motherboard cost me more than what you say a top notch graphics card should cost.
Again, you're just kind of proving what I said last time.

But then, coming from someone who thinks an $850 store-bought computer "rocks"
It does. And since you have no idea what my desktop computer has, your comment is not only ignorant, but funny.

I can see how you think I spent too much money.
Good, because it seems obvious that you did.

As someone who knows a bit about computers and components, I'll have to disagree with you.
But you don't seem to know a bit about computers or components. You seem to know a bit about paying a lot of money. But you don't seem to know quality operating systems and you don't seem to know how to shop for hardware.

And you did all of this because you wanted to play a video game at max settings? Is that correct? I mean, I understand everyone values different things differently, but I just cannot understand spending that much money just to play a game. But, to each their own, I suppose.
 
No, I am not. How can you hope to converse if you cannot even remember what's being said?

That's.....great? At max settings? No, but you don't seem to understand my point. I paid $850 for a system which COULD play the top of the line games of the time. You paid $3500. Do you get it now?

No, it's based on pricing that I've done for a year now. Here, you can see for yourself:

PassMark Software - Video Card Benchmarks - High End Video Cards

$310 for GeForce GTX 770.

Okay, add an extra $400 to your total and you're still paying $1600 for the other things.


An i7-4770k processor costs $340 on Newegg. It performs at roughly the same level as the one you apparently spent $250 more dollars on.

Intel Core i7-4770K - Newegg.com
PassMark - CPU Benchmarks - List of Benchmarked CPUs

Like I said, it seems as if you got taken.

Again, you're just kind of proving what I said last time.

It does. And since you have no idea what my desktop computer has, your comment is not only ignorant, but funny.

Good, because it seems obvious that you did.

But you don't seem to know a bit about computers or components. You seem to know a bit about paying a lot of money. But you don't seem to know quality operating systems and you don't seem to know how to shop for hardware.

And you did all of this because you wanted to play a video game at max settings? Is that correct? I mean, I understand everyone values different things differently, but I just cannot understand spending that much money just to play a game. But, to each their own, I suppose.

A year and a half ago, the 770 and the 4770K were not available. That means your opinion of what I spent then compared to what can be spent now is akin to comparing apples to oranges.

Now...just because you are willing to spend a minute amount of money to play a game at inferior graphics settings doesn't mean I spent too much money to play a game at it's top graphics settings. It just means that you are willing to settle for inferior graphics. I'm not. Also, I'll be able to keep my graphics settings maxed out for quite some time to come, while you will be constantly lowering your graphics settings as newer games will require you to do.

The rest of your post is inconsequential blather that doesn't deserve comment except your last statement, which I agree with: To each their own.

btw, you are out of your mind when you say that the 4770K is roughly the same as my processor. They are grossly different...including the kind of socket each one requires.

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-3930K+@+3.20GHz&id=902
 
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Years ago I owned and operated a computer systems integration company. One of the experiences that business gave me was that of building 1000's of computers. I still build my own but haven't built them for anyone else for quite some time. Once a computer gets water cooled it can be fairly pricey. I suspect that it would cost me about $2500 to build a state of the art water cooled gaming computer. I would probably sell it for around $3500 so Mycrofts's system doesn't seem to be out of line to me for what it is. I've built professional AV recording workstations that sold for over $5000. For under a $1000 you can have a machine that will do about anything other than hi res gaming or perhaps video editing. A business computer doesn't require much computing power and internet surfing even less. I wouldn't recommend spending over $1000 for any business work station. But a hi tech gaming computer is a different animal. Almost all are custom built and the parts cost can get pretty high pretty quickly. I don't really mean to join the argument. I'm just trying to put some perspective on things.
 
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First of all, I don't suggest anyone install a 3rd party program...not even to get the start button. But if you really cannot live with out that thing, it's your choice to do so. You might consider that a little later this year MS will be releasing it's Update 2 that is expected to include a fully functioning start button. I posted a picture of it earlier in this thread.

Second of all, I don't think it's the fault of MS that 3rd party programs stop working when MS releases an upgrade. That often happens...especially with drivers. If you paid for that 3rd party program to get the start button, I'm guessing they upgraded their program when it stopped working. I think they should provide that upgrade to you free of charge.

Third...I didn't use the start button in Win7 so I have no need for it in Win8. Sorry, but I haven't looked at any of those 3rd party programs. I can give you this link from a very credible source who did a review of a bunch of those programs. Best Windows 8 Start Menu | Maximum PC

I hope this helps.

Oh...I should mention that if all you want to do is to boot directly to the desktop, it's very easy to do with Win8.1. See this link: How to Boot to the Desktop in Windows 8 & Windows 8.1

I should also mention that Win8.1 Update 1 sets booting to desktop as the default action if you are using a PC. If you haven't installed Update 1 yet, you should.

I agree with you. For those who are interested in a Win 7 style start button I found a freeware third party one at classicshell.net. I put it on one of the Win 8.1 computers and tested it. Solid as a rock. Looks just like Win 7. It was good enough that I installed it also on my second Win 8 system. Makes using 8.1 on a desktop system easier and faster. Problem solved.
 
So...you are trying to tell me that Win8 doesn't work well in desktop mode? I don't know...I haven't had any problems in that regard. Perhaps you can tell me exactly what doesn't work well, eh? Be aware, that "expert" already blew it when he talked about content production and multitasking.

Actually...you might start with explaining exactly what is meant by "not optimized for desktop use" (your words) or "optimized for content consumption rather than content production and multitasking" (that so-called expert's words).

As far as I can tell, it's meaningless. OS's handle the hardware, so the code is optimized to do things like work with the display. Since the display is (one of) the devices we use to consume content, that means "the OS is optimized for content consumption".

Content production is an app. Apps like Photoshop, Word, and ProTools are used to create content. OS's don't "optimize apps". They optimize the use of CPU, etc but they don't "optimize apps"
 
Years ago I owned and operated a computer systems integration company. One of the experiences that business gave me was that of building 1000's of computers. I still build my own but haven't built them for anyone else for quite some time. Once a computer gets water cooled it can be fairly pricey. I suspect that it would cost me about $2500 to build a state of the art water cooled gaming computer. I would probably sell it for around $3500 so Mycrofts's system doesn't seem to be out of line to me for what it is. I've built professional AV recording workstations that sold for over $5000. For under a $1000 you can have a machine that will do about anything other than hi res gaming or perhaps video editing. A business computer doesn't require much computing power and internet surfing even less. I wouldn't recommend spending over $1000 for any business work station. But a hi tech gaming computer is a different animal. Almost all are custom built and the parts cost can get pretty high pretty quickly. I don't really mean to join the argument. I'm just trying to put some perspective on things.

To be perfectly honest and upfront, I should mention that I could have probably spent a little less on my parts than I did.

There is a computer shop in town that I've gone to for years. The guys there have decent prices, they've provided a wealth of knowledge and I've enjoyed talking computer stuff with them. I could have priced each component online and most certainly could have found a cheaper price from one place or another. Instead, I went with this local shop, cheerfully forked over their markup (I'm guessing that to be a couple hundred dollars or so) and insured that my money was helping my local businessmen.
 
I wish we would ban W8. What a miserable piece of **** it is.
 
A year and a half ago, the 770 and the 4770K were not available. That means your opinion of what I spent then compared to what can be spent now is akin to comparing apples to oranges.
:roll:

Thank you for missing the point. As usual.

Now...just because you are willing to spend a minute amount of money to play a game at inferior graphics settings doesn't mean I spent too much money to play a game at it's top graphics settings.
Umm, no, the fact you spent $3500 on a machine does that.

Like I've said, you're welcome to spend your money however you'd like, obviously. But you definitely strike me as the type who spends that much, not because he has to, but because it's a source of pride. You're proud of how much you spent on your machine (that much is obvious) so it doesn't seem to me as if you're nearly so concerned about the components as you are the price. And that's certainly your prerogative, just don't sit there and try to tell people how great your knowledge of computers is because you spent $3500 and use that to justify your support of the terrible Windows 8 operating system. Which is exactly what you tried to do.

btw, you are out of your mind when you say that the 4770K is roughly the same as my processor.
Not when you're comparing performance. That was my point.
 
:roll:

Thank you for missing the point. As usual.

Umm, no, the fact you spent $3500 on a machine does that.

Like I've said, you're welcome to spend your money however you'd like, obviously. But you definitely strike me as the type who spends that much, not because he has to, but because it's a source of pride. You're proud of how much you spent on your machine (that much is obvious) so it doesn't seem to me as if you're nearly so concerned about the components as you are the price. And that's certainly your prerogative, just don't sit there and try to tell people how great your knowledge of computers is because you spent $3500 and use that to justify your support of the terrible Windows 8 operating system. Which is exactly what you tried to do.

Not when you're comparing performance. That was my point.

Performance? Your own link shows that the 3930K's performance is at least 15% better than the 4770K. That can hardly be considered "roughly the same".

Since you are comfortable spewing nonsense about processors, I'm not surprised you would be spewing nonsense about OS's. Fortunately for me...unfortunately for you...I don't have to listen to your nonsense if I don't want to.

You are dismissed.
 
As far as I can tell, it's meaningless. OS's handle the hardware, so the code is optimized to do things like work with the display. Since the display is (one of) the devices we use to consume content, that means "the OS is optimized for content consumption".

Content production is an app. Apps like Photoshop, Word, and ProTools are used to create content. OS's don't "optimize apps". They optimize the use of CPU, etc but they don't "optimize apps"

Well said. Much of IT lingo seems to be designed to obfuscate for some reason. Perhaps for the same reasons doctors use latin.
 
Well said. Much of IT lingo seems to be designed to obfuscate for some reason. Perhaps for the same reasons doctors use latin.

Not really. Used properly, IT terms clarify. Take the word "optimize". It refers to practice of altering code so that accomplishes its' intended task as quickly as possible. That is crystal clear

But it becomes unclear when people (often journalists writing about tech) use the word to mean "make better" as in "optimize for content creation". Computers don't create content; People do and when they do they use computers as a tool
 
Performance? Your own link shows that the 3930K's performance is at least 15% better than the 4770K. That can hardly be considered "roughly the same".
Uhh, yes, it is roughly the same when you compare in general, especially for the reason you claim to have bought it.

Since you are comfortable spewing nonsense about processors
Except I'm not.

I'm not surprised you would be spewing nonsense about OS's.
Except I'm not. Your sole defense was "well, I didn't have any problems" when presented with mountains of evidence of Windows 8 problems. The only person spewing nonsense is the person who thinks his personal anecdote erases copious amounts of issues.

Fortunately for me...unfortunately for you...I don't have to listen to your nonsense if I don't want to.

You are dismissed.
That was cute. You can go along if you'd like. I'd probably try to leave also if I was in the position of defending Windows 8.
 
Okay...I guess I didn't realize you were being sarcastic in your remark. However, while I've said many times that I don't have problems with Win8, I've also demonstrated that some "expert" is totally wrong by showing that Win8 can do what he says it won't do. That wasn't an anecdote.

In regards to my system, I probably didn't HAVE to spend so much...but I chose to...and I had a specific reason to make that choice. I don't want to have to spend large amounts of money on upgrades for at least 5+ years. And I won't.

I have a motherboard that can accommodate 3 graphics cards, though I only use 2 cards at the moment. I have the ability to add another one in the future.

I have a 1200W power supply that provides more than enough power for my needs right now, so it will be up to the task of providing power if and when I add components.

I have 16GB's of Ram...but I only use half the slots available to me. Should I need more ram in the future, I'll have no problems plugging in more sticks.

I have a 256GB SSD, a 1TB internal hard drive and a 1TB portable drive. I won't be adding drives for a little while, at least.

My CPU is a hyperthreaded 6-core i7 processor. The software I use right now doesn't come near to stressing that CPU, but future software might. I'll be able to handle it with ease. Heck, right now I don't even have to overclock the thing...though I can.

I use a closed-loop water cooled system for the CPU. If I ever OC or use software that stresses my processor, the cooler will be up to the task.

I also have two 27" 1080p monitors...but I had those before I built this computer. They are more of a convenience than anything to do with being "future proof", but I have to say that I don't see myself going back to a single monitor ever again. I would love to add a 27" touchscreen monitor to my setup, but current prices make that an unwise move. But when I do add it, my graphics cards will certainly be up to the task of driving all three monitors.

Oh...and I use Win8...upgraded to Win8.1 Upgrade 1, so far. XP not supported anymore? I don't care. Win7 scheduled to end patch support in 2015 and security fix support in 2020? No problem. I'm good to go.

I really hate you now... gimmie that machine ffs!! :)
 
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