• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

China abuses UN Security Council veto power

ludahai

Defender of the Faith
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
10,320
Reaction score
2,115
Location
Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
I am sure most readers of this forum know that there is a UN Peacekeeping force in Haiti. The Haitian government and UN Secretary General Kofi Annan both agree that a one-year extension past the June 1 deadline is needed. The Western Powers agree, even the U.S. and France agree on this one. The catch? China! See, the government in Port au Prince doesn't have diplomatic relations with China, but rather with Taiwan. Furthermore, the interim Prime Minister plans on visiting Taiwan later this summer. This is all simply unacceptable to the bombastic thugs in Beijing, who threaten to veto the one-year extention (which EVERYONE else agree is needed) and rather will support an inadequate six month extension.

source

This news doesn't surprise anyone in Taiwan because China has pulled this ploy before. Macedonia and Liberia were once Diplomatic Allies of Taiwan. However, China used Security Council veto blackmail to get them to change their recognition. It is clear that Beijing is trying to do the same with Haiti.

This is sick. No wonder why people with brains are questioning the workings of the United Nations. THe ideals of the San Francisco Charter, sadly, have never been dominant in the workings of the organization. It is all politics and so long as totalitarian, non-democratic states make up a majority of the membership, that is all it will ever be. A forum for the despots of the world to perpetuate themselves, and nothing more.

:shoot CHICOMS
 
Last edited:

ludahai

Defender of the Faith
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
10,320
Reaction score
2,115
Location
Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
Update:

The deed has been done. China has forced the Security Council to delay extending the peacekeeping mission for one year. Everyone is calling for the extension. Kofi Annan is calling for it. The Haitain government is calling for it. Even the American and French agree on it, but China doesn't care about the security of the Haitian people or their Presidential election because they will do anything, hurt anyone to keep adhering to their pathological myth that Taiwan is a part of China.
Source
 

flip2

Active member
Joined
May 24, 2005
Messages
338
Reaction score
0
Location
Texan by Choice
This is why there needs to be a shakeup with the UN BADLY! This is why the UN has lacked confidence from the very host country it sits in.

I hope change comes to China. I, for one, have said from the very beginning that the United States should boycott the 2008 Beijing Summer Games. The U.S. should rethink it's China MFN status. Of course, no President would dare do this, republican or democrat, because it would cause great economic rift between the two nations. Shame.
 

RightinNYC

Girthless
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Messages
25,893
Reaction score
12,484
Location
New York, NY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
flip2 said:
This is why there needs to be a shakeup with the UN BADLY! This is why the UN has lacked confidence from the very host country it sits in.

I hope change comes to China. I, for one, have said from the very beginning that the United States should boycott the 2008 Beijing Summer Games. The U.S. should rethink it's China MFN status. Of course, no President would dare do this, republican or democrat, because it would cause great economic rift between the two nations. Shame.
MFN status for China will go down as one of the worst economic decisions the US ever made...
 

ludahai

Defender of the Faith
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
10,320
Reaction score
2,115
Location
Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
flip2 said:
This is why there needs to be a shakeup with the UN BADLY! This is why the UN has lacked confidence from the very host country it sits in.

I hope change comes to China. I, for one, have said from the very beginning that the United States should boycott the 2008 Beijing Summer Games. The U.S. should rethink it's China MFN status. Of course, no President would dare do this, republican or democrat, because it would cause great economic rift between the two nations. Shame.
Actually, the United States lost the right to deny China MFN when it allowed China to become a member of the World Trade Organization. Actually, MFN has become so common that is is considered standard, so much so that it is now known as PNTR (Permanent Normalized Trade Relations.)

The United States, Japan, Taiwan and a whole host of other countries should boycott Beijing 2008. China is insisting that the country I live in not only be referred as Chinese Taipei, which is an afront to anyone in Taiwan who DOESN'T live in Taipei, but they want us called Taipei, China. In fact, in Chinese language publications inside China, they have already made the switch. Instead of 中華台北 (Chinese Taipei), they say 中國台北 (Taipei, China) This is a big difference. By right, however, it should be known as 台灣 (Taiwan.)

Originally Posted by RightatNYU
MFN status for China will go down as one of the worst economic decisions the US ever made...
As I said, the U.S. no longer has the right to deny China MFN (PNTR) status as a consequence of allowing China to become a WTO member. China is breaking WTO rules while accusing the U.S. of breaking nonexistant ones. You can't deal with a regime who has no desire to follow the rule of law. They have the attitude, "What's mine is mine, what's yours we'll talk about."
 

mikeangelo

New member
Joined
Jul 3, 2005
Messages
40
Reaction score
0
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Private
of course it is ok for the US to use its veto. it is terrible that any other nation would dare to use its position on the much sought after seat to advance its aims.

The UN does not exist to spread peace and justice throughout the world. It lacks legitamacy. It is beyond reform. People say the Bolton nomination will promote UN reform. Will America give up its stranglehold on the planet. Never.

When the Americans talk of reform they want to curb the powers of all the other nations and increase their global hegemony.
 

ludahai

Defender of the Faith
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
10,320
Reaction score
2,115
Location
Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
mikeangelo said:
of course it is ok for the US to use its veto. it is terrible that any other nation would dare to use its position on the much sought after seat to advance its aims.

The UN does not exist to spread peace and justice throughout the world. It lacks legitamacy. It is beyond reform. People say the Bolton nomination will promote UN reform. Will America give up its stranglehold on the planet. Never.

When the Americans talk of reform they want to curb the powers of all the other nations and increase their global hegemony.
I think you miss the point of this whole thread and that is the abuse of China in denying the people of Haiti the protection they need as they get ready for an election solely for the reason that the Haitians recognize the fact that Taiwan is a country and the Taiwanese people are not citizens of China.
 

mikeangelo

New member
Joined
Jul 3, 2005
Messages
40
Reaction score
0
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Private
I am not denying that it is an 'abuse' of China's seat. i am only saying that this is how the business of the security council works. Let us look at US use of its veto powers to protect Israeli war crimes. Again the UN is merely a debating platform for the world powers to carve up the planet amongst themselves. It has no legitamacy.
 

ludahai

Defender of the Faith
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
10,320
Reaction score
2,115
Location
Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
mikeangelo said:
I am not denying that it is an 'abuse' of China's seat. i am only saying that this is how the business of the security council works. Let us look at US use of its veto powers to protect Israeli war crimes. Again the UN is merely a debating platform for the world powers to carve up the planet amongst themselves. It has no legitamacy.
The U.S. is using its veto power to protect the right of a DEMOCRACY under threat from several countries around it along with terrorists in it TO EXIST! This is not abuse. CHina using its veto power to force Macedonia and Liberia to withdraw its diplomatic missions from Taipei, which is the capital of a sovereign and DEMOCRATIC country, and attempting to do the same with Haiti IS an abuse of that power.
 

mikeangelo

New member
Joined
Jul 3, 2005
Messages
40
Reaction score
0
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Private
Don't use the term terrorism. some people may say that the Taiwanese struggle is a foreign backed terrorist campaign to subvert the chinese nation and its peoples. It depends on your perspective. Let us not use inflammatory language.

america is protecting a foreign occupation of a land that the jews have no claim to- democracy or no democracy. America itself is occupying another nation that it has no claim. The US abuses the UN to justify its claims. Ultimately America is protecting its interest.

China does the same.

I am not commenting on the right or wrong of the action. I am just pointing out that to say one is better or worse than the other is false. Both parties play the same game.
 

ludahai

Defender of the Faith
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
10,320
Reaction score
2,115
Location
Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
mikeangelo said:
Don't use the term terrorism. some people may say that the Taiwanese struggle is a foreign backed terrorist campaign to subvert the chinese nation and its peoples. It depends on your perspective. Let us not use inflammatory language.

america is protecting a foreign occupation of a land that the jews have no claim to- democracy or no democracy. America itself is occupying another nation that it has no claim. The US abuses the UN to justify its claims. Ultimately America is protecting its interest.

China does the same.

I am not commenting on the right or wrong of the action. I am just pointing out that to say one is better or worse than the other is false. Both parties play the same game.
:spin: :spin: :spin: :spin:

This is the greatest spin I have seen in a long time.

Fact: The United Nations declared that Israel was a state in 1948. The Jews accepted that declaration, the Arabs responded with an illegal invasion. The Arabs have no legal claim over the territory of the State of Israel due to the United Nations declaration in 1948.

Fact: The Treaty of San Francisco of 1951 states that Japan surrendered its sovereignty over Taiwan but NO TRANSFER of sovereignty was made to China. China has no legal claim of sovereignty over Taiwan due to its own surrender of sovereignty over the island in 1895 and no subsequent treaty or declaration by a competant body by which sovereignty was reclaimed.

Fact: Palestinians DO use terror against Israeli citizens through the use of random bombings directed specifically at civilian targets.

Fact: China's deployment of more than 700 missiles at peaceful and Democratic Taiwan is terrorism directed at the people of Taiwan to attempt to influence them in their sovereign decision.

Terrorists: China and Palestinians
Democracies: Israel and Taiwan

Me thinks you are on the wrong side on this one. Those who side with terrorists get no sympathy from me. That is even worse than being a Yankees fan!
 
Last edited:

mikeangelo

New member
Joined
Jul 3, 2005
Messages
40
Reaction score
0
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Private
hehe what is wrong with the yankees!

who gave the UN the right to give the land away to the Jews? again the UN has no legitiamacy. hence the ruling has no legitamacy. the reality was that it was british occupied. then sovereignity was transferred to the Jews. the people never gave up their right to the land and hence never gave up their struggle.

In palestine there are no civilian targets. The reality is that the area is a disputed territory. If some idiot decides to open up an ice cream parlour then he will suffer the consequences.

America supports the actions of the occuppier. i cannot believe that some from a land that is struggling for its independance cannot understand this point.
 

nkgupta80

DP Veteran
Joined
May 31, 2005
Messages
1,720
Reaction score
59
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
very true, what gave the UN-backed West the right to give the Jews a country whereever they please when the Jews asked for one? Native Americans were ****ed over with, but they don't have a right to their land? Kurds have been askin for a government, the UN hasnt used its great power to give them land. Why not kick out another million people from somewhere in the Mid-east and give the Kurds a government. The West feels guilty about their prejudice against Jews, and decide to put them somewhere where they won't be bothered.

On the issue of terrorism, there was terrorism under Zionists before the creation of Israel.
 

mikeangelo

New member
Joined
Jul 3, 2005
Messages
40
Reaction score
0
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Private
The UN does not need reform. What i feel is that our perceptions of the UN should change. We should stop living in the the clouds and view it as the saviour of mankind. We should see it as the palace from which mankind is subjugated.

I was laughing my head off. When they were talking about Iraq, everyone was saying that if UN troops were there then the situation would have been totally different. HOW? It would still be American troops, but with blue helmets instead of Green ones. The people would still be bombed in the same way. There would still be no security etc.
 
Top Bottom