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China: a new hegemonic power

thelegend

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Recently, President Bush has been urged to enforce stricter policy objectives towards China, due to economic and security interests. Might China be strenghtening their global status to create a bi-polar world, with the US and China as the next two superpowers of the international community? How will the US react to China's potential capabilities?
 

TimmyBoy

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thelegend said:
Recently, President Bush has been urged to enforce stricter policy objectives towards China, due to economic and security interests. Might China be strenghtening their global status to create a bi-polar world, with the US and China as the next two superpowers of the international community? How will the US react to China's potential capabilities?
I believe the invasion of Iraq might be one of the reactions of the US towards China. Both China and the US are competing for oil resources.
 

Kandahar

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China will gain power and influence over the next couple decades, to be sure, but I really don't see them as a threat to the United States. China doesn't seem particularly antagonistic toward American interests, unless there is a specific reason they conflict with Chinese interests.

Pop quiz: What do the United States, the USSR, the Roman Empire, and al-Qaeda all have in common, that China does not?

The first four all had/have an ideology to spread, whereas China does not. China's pragmatism makes it unlikely to ever be an expansionist/militaristic power in the forseeable future.
 

MrAchilles

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I think China will definitely become a superpower (a lot sooner than later) but not militarily. I don't think they'll ever be as good as the U.S. and the U.K.. Not even Japan for that matter.
 

ludahai

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Kandahar said:
The first four all had/have an ideology to spread, whereas China does not. China's pragmatism makes it unlikely to ever be an expansionist/militaristic power in the forseeable future.
What snowbank has your head been stuck in? China claims territory that belongs to some half-dozen countries and claims Taiwan as being its own. China has a two thousand-year history of expansionism. What makes you think that they are finally going to stop eyeing what belongs to others?
 

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Kandahar said:
China will gain power and influence over the next couple decades, to be sure, but I really don't see them as a threat to the United States. China doesn't seem particularly antagonistic toward American interests, unless there is a specific reason they conflict with Chinese interests.

Pop quiz: What do the United States, the USSR, the Roman Empire, and al-Qaeda all have in common, that China does not?

The first four all had/have an ideology to spread, whereas China does not. China's pragmatism makes it unlikely to ever be an expansionist/militaristic power in the forseeable future.
Excellent point on Chinas lack of a pervasive ideology. Personally I see “soft power” as the key point in identifying hegemonic powers. Sure superpowers can be military superior but the key to understanding hegemonic powers is their ability to “shape” the world in their image and their ability to have the most efficient societies of their time.
However I do see problems in the future for the USA. Military technology is not a linear process. New technology can – and will – in the future open up the possibility of new weapon systems independent of previous “know-how”. Thereby the important factor for hegemonic powers is their economic power and the “soft” power that lets them have a progressive society. My prediction based on this world view is that USA military power will lessen comparative to other powers. Furthermore with the current American outsourcing of industrial production the day will come were all of their critical industries all of their material resources are on foreign soil, what pray tell will America do when these foreign powers awaken one day and announce; that they have no further need of American owners.

This is a prediction for the century not the next decades…
 

Kandahar

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ludahai said:
What snowbank has your head been stuck in? China claims territory that belongs to some half-dozen countries and claims Taiwan as being its own. China has a two thousand-year history of expansionism. What makes you think that they are finally going to stop eyeing what belongs to others?
I'd hardly call the occasional minor border dispute (Vietnam), or claiming land that they can at least make a dubious claim to (such as Taiwan and Tibet), qualifies as expansionism.

China isn't looking to, say, expand its borders to encompass all of Asia. There's no indication that China is interested in building an empire...and why should they? They don't have any ideology to spread.
 

ludahai

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Kandahar said:
I'd hardly call the occasional minor border dispute (Vietnam), or claiming land that they can at least make a dubious claim to (such as Taiwan and Tibet), qualifies as expansionism.

China isn't looking to, say, expand its borders to encompass all of Asia. There's no indication that China is interested in building an empire...and why should they? They don't have any ideology to spread.
The only idology they need is control! Why did they invade Tibet? Why do they claim the entire SOuth China Sea? You are missing two very important elements that would necessitate Chinese expansion.

One is natural resources. They need them and some of their neighbors have them. They are most certainly looking both to the north and to the west. If you think a more powerful China in 20 years isn't going to look to dominate those areas, you are fooling yourself!

The other is strategic need. Right now, the democracies of the world can hem China in. South Korea, Japan, Taiwan and the Philippines are encircling CHina. Occupation of Taiwan and the Senkaku Islands allows China to break the encirclement.

Anti-religious people often laud the fact that unlike the West, CHina didn't have religious wars. That is largely true. However, China has a history of brutal warfare that would make students of Western history shudder. This current bunch of autocrats are still Chinese. Expanisionism is a part of their culture. They have been at it for thousands of years. If you think that they are not going to expand when they have the chance to do it, you are part of the problem and I hope I live to tell you I told you so when China attacks the country I call home.
 

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Kandahar said:
China isn't looking to, say, expand its borders to encompass all of Asia. There's no indication that China is interested in building an empire...and why should they?
Because they are communist. They want the globe. Why are you sticking up for an oppresive, brutal nation like China?
 

Kandahar

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teacher said:
Because they are communist.
Actually, they aren't. China hasn't been communist for decades.

teacher said:
They want the globe.
A blind assertion. You'll have to forgive me if I don't accept this tautology ("they're expansionist because they want the globe") as gospel.

teacher said:
Why are you sticking up for an oppresive, brutal nation like China?
It's not "sticking up" for China. Maybe I'm just more interested in examining the geopolitical realities of the world, than participating in this ideological grandstanding.
 
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teacher

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Kandahar said:
Actually, they aren't. China hasn't been communist for decades.



A blind assertion. You'll have to forgive me if I don't accept this tautology ("they're expansionist because they want the globe") as gospel.



It's not "sticking up" for China. Maybe I'm just more interested in examining the geopolitical realities of the world, than participating in this ideological grandstanding.
Ni buzhidao.
 

JOHNYJ

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PBS recently broadcasted a french made travelogue abou Tibet .It showed the happy Tibetan people .It omited the unhappy ones that are in " concentration camps " .The Europeans and especialy the french who like to claim moral superiority. Fall all over themselves trying to get on the good side of China.
The fact that its a communist dictatorship with over 250,000 people in concentration camps. That China has moved 450,000 Chinese into Tibet in order to destroy Tibetan culture is never mentioned.
 

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JOHNYJ said:
PBS recently broadcasted a french made travelogue abou Tibet .It showed the happy Tibetan people .It omited the unhappy ones that are in " concentration camps " .The Europeans and especialy the french who like to claim moral superiority. Fall all over themselves trying to get on the good side of China.
The fact that its a communist dictatorship with over 250,000 people in concentration camps. That China has moved 450,000 Chinese into Tibet in order to destroy Tibetan culture is never mentioned.
i am sure alot of americans, esp the us corporations like to get on the good side of china as well.....

aside from that, yes china is culpable for many human-rights violations.
the best we can hope (and it is happening), is that china reforms from the inside. The people are speaking out, inducing change, and so on. As the newer generations become more and more intune with the globalized world, there will be less support for the dying "communist" dogma.
 

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JOHNYJ said:
PBS recently broadcasted a french made travelogue abou Tibet .It showed the happy Tibetan people .It omited the unhappy ones that are in " concentration camps " .The Europeans and especialy the french who like to claim moral superiority. Fall all over themselves trying to get on the good side of China.
The fact that its a communist dictatorship with over 250,000 people in concentration camps. That China has moved 450,000 Chinese into Tibet in order to destroy Tibetan culture is never mentioned.
Concenrtation camps in Tibet? You have credible sources for this? Or are you just falling for anti-China rhetoric.
 

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ludahai said:
The only idology they need is control! Why did they invade Tibet? Why do they claim the entire SOuth China Sea? You are missing two very important elements that would necessitate Chinese expansion.
Hmmm, it may have something to do of belonging to China to begin with? Why are your historical knowledge in the region so one sided? I wonder if it'd be any different had China never become communist, would you think the same way?

ludahai said:
One is natural resources. They need them and some of their neighbors have them. They are most certainly looking both to the north and to the west. If you think a more powerful China in 20 years isn't going to look to dominate those areas, you are fooling yourself!
North and west? Hmmm when did China expand north and west? The places you've named thus far are south and east.

ludahai said:
The other is strategic need. Right now, the democracies of the world can hem China in. South Korea, Japan, Taiwan and the Philippines are encircling CHina. Occupation of Taiwan and the Senkaku Islands allows China to break the encirclement.
What a load of crap. Hem China in for the purpose of what?
With ICBM's, submarines and so on, China hardly needs to break through any of those regions to "show force". Not to mention with a naval and air power that is still 30 years behind all those other nations, 50 years behind the US (these estimates include air tactics and refueling capability), there's no possible way of China going out even with occupation of any of those areas.

ludahai said:
Anti-religious people often laud the fact that unlike the West, CHina didn't have religious wars. That is largely true. However, China has a history of brutal warfare that would make students of Western history shudder. This current bunch of autocrats are still Chinese. Expanisionism is a part of their culture. They have been at it for thousands of years. If you think that they are not going to expand when they have the chance to do it, you are part of the problem and I hope I live to tell you I told you so when China attacks the country I call home.
Bull ****, utter compelte bullshit. Name one single expansionist war China has ever launched. Name one brutal international war China has launched. If you want to refer to the mongolian conquerer Ganghas Kang, wow, surprise surprise, he was Mongolian.
You're concept of an expansionist China is just baseless rhetoric.
Oh and yes you will be able to live to call home as that blue passport will easily bring you home probably on a C-130 flying the red-white and blue.
 

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American companies are reported to have traded with Nazi Germany befor and during the war. Business was more important that nationality. Right now Google,Yahoo, AOL are all agreeing to restrict acess to their search engines in Communist China,business again.
 

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JOHNYJ said:
American companies are reported to have traded with Nazi Germany befor and during the war. Business was more important that nationality. Right now Google,Yahoo, AOL are all agreeing to restrict acess to their search engines in Communist China,business again.
I can understand them agreeing to restrict it. If they don't, the Chinese people won't have access to their search engines at all.

Less excusable is Yahoo collaborating with the Chinese government to arrest political dissidents. It should be illegal for any American company to do that sort of thing.
 

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Recently, Taiwanese President Chen Shui-bian brought a stiff foreign policy toward China. China considers Taiwan a territory, but is Taiwan sending another signal?
 

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thelegend said:
but is Taiwan sending another signal?
They have been for quite some time now.


As to answer the question that started the thread... Yes China will grow in power. No they will not take over the world, eclipse the United States, or eat our children for breakfast. The scare tactics that the media uses to sell their product are not to be taken seriously. Since the beginning of our history people have been banging the doomsday drums but never has the dire predictions come true.

The British are comming the British are comming were all gona die....
The Japanese are comming the Japanese are comming were all gona die....
The commies are comming the commies are comming were all gona die....
The Chinese are comming the Chinese are comming were all gona die....

Anyone see a pattern...
 

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Gaivs Ivlivs said:
They have been for quite some time now.


As to answer the question that started the thread... Yes China will grow in power. No they will not take over the world, eclipse the United States, or eat our children for breakfast. The scare tactics that the media uses to sell their product are not to be taken seriously. Since the beginning of our history people have been banging the doomsday drums but never has the dire predictions come true.

The British are comming the British are comming were all gona die....
The Japanese are comming the Japanese are comming were all gona die....
The commies are comming the commies are comming were all gona die....
The Chinese are comming the Chinese are comming were all gona die....

Anyone see a pattern...
We're all going to die? No? :mrgreen:
 

cnredd

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Gaivs Ivlivs said:
They have been for quite some time now.


As to answer the question that started the thread... Yes China will grow in power. No they will not take over the world, eclipse the United States, or eat our children for breakfast. The scare tactics that the media uses to sell their product are not to be taken seriously. Since the beginning of our history people have been banging the doomsday drums but never has the dire predictions come true.

The British are comming the British are comming were all gona die....
The Japanese are comming the Japanese are comming were all gona die....
The commies are comming the commies are comming were all gona die....
The Chinese are comming the Chinese are comming were all gona die....

Anyone see a pattern...
Yes I do...

You keep using two "m"s in the word "coming" instead of one, and you did this continuously...:doh
 

Kelzie

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cnredd said:
Yes I do...

You keep using two "m"s in the word "coming" instead of one, and you did this continuously...:doh
Maybe he meant it to sound like a voice receding off into the distance.
 

cnredd

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Kelzie said:
Maybe he meant it to sound like a voice receding off into the distance.
If that were the case, then the "i" would be lengthened and not the "m"....

You would say "The British are coming" and pronounce the "i" as if it were an "e"...both a "long e" AND a "lengthy e"...:cool:

It would be "comiiiiiiiiiing" and not "commmmmmmming"...:2wave:
 

Kelzie

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cnredd said:
If that were the case, then the "i" would be lengthened and not the "m"....

You would say "The British are coming" and pronounce the "i" as if it were an "e"...both a "long e" AND a "lengthy e"...:cool:

It would be "comiiiiiiiiiing" and not "commmmmmmming"...:2wave:
It could be both....and maybe with the "o" too.

"cooommmmiiiiiing"

Except it kind of looks like cooming. And that just sounds weird.
 
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