China’s builders vs America’s lawyers

• That Americans and Chinese are fundamentally alike: restless, eager for shortcuts, ultimately driving most of the world’s big changes.
• That their rivalry should not be reasoned through with worn-out terms from the past century like socialist, democratic or neoliberal.
• And that both countries are tangles of imperfection, regularly delivering – in the name of competition – self-beatings that go beyond the wildest dreams of the other

Stealers Wheel said:

Labor unions in China? Don't even think about it! Workers' rights? Don't make me laugh.

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anatta said:

The starkest contrast between the two countries is the competition that will define the twenty-first century: an American elite, made up of mostly lawyers, excelling at obstruction, versus a Chinese technocratic class, made up of mostly engineers, that excels at construction.

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anatta said:

Capitalist America intrudes upon the free market with a dense program of regulation and taxation.… Socialist China detains union leaders, levies light taxes, and provides a threadbare social safety net. The greatest trick that the Communist Party ever pulled off is masquerading as leftist. While Xi Jinping and the rest of the Politburo mouth Marxist pieties, the state is enacting a right-wing agenda that Western conservatives would salivate over.

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Gozaburo said:

This is actually a dated belief. Since Deng's reforms, China actually has pretty solid worker's rights and reliable unions. Some argue that they even have better worker's rights than the United States (which isn't saying much, frankly), but I don't know if I'd go that far.

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Gozaburo said:

This is actually a dated belief. Since Deng's reforms, China actually has pretty solid worker's rights and reliable unions. Some argue that they even have better worker's rights than the United States (which isn't saying much, frankly), but I don't know if I'd go that far.

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anatta said:

Breakneck divide: China's builders vs America's lawyers - Asia Times

Dan Wang has written a book that brings a new perspective to understanding the differences in style of government between China and the US and the

asiatimes.com

The starkest contrast between the two countries is the competition that will define the twenty-first century: an American elite, made up of mostly lawyers, excelling at obstruction, versus a Chinese technocratic class, made up of mostly engineers, that excels at construction.

That’s the big idea behind this book. It’s time for a new lens to understand the two superpowers: China is an engineering state, building big at breakneck speed, in contrast to the United States’ lawyerly society, blocking everything it can, good and bad.

On his website, the author explains that his book is “driven by a few simple ideas”:

• That Americans and Chinese are fundamentally alike: restless, eager for shortcuts, ultimately driving most of the world’s big changes.
• That their rivalry should not be reasoned through with worn-out terms from the past century like socialist, democratic or neoliberal.
• And that both countries are tangles of imperfection, regularly delivering – in the name of competition – self-beatings that go beyond the wildest dreams of the other

“Engineers,” writes Wang, “have quite literally ruled modern China.… Xi Jinping studied chemical engineering at Tsinghua, China’s top science university.” And: “What do engineers like to do? Build.” A road network twice as long as that of the US, a high-speed rail network 20 times longer than Japan’s, and nearly as much solar and wind power as the rest of the world combined. The problem is, they can’t stop, applying their methods to social problems even when that it not appropriate.

After an inspiring description of the rise of venture capital and high-tech manufacturing in Shenzhen, Wang turns his attention to the brutal enforcement of the one-child policy and the severe Covid lockdown that drove people to desperation.

Capitalist America intrudes upon the free market with a dense program of regulation and taxation.… Socialist China detains union leaders, levies light taxes, and provides a threadbare social safety net. The greatest trick that the Communist Party ever pulled off is masquerading as leftist. While Xi Jinping and the rest of the Politburo mouth Marxist pieties, the state is enacting a right-wing agenda that Western conservatives would salivate over.

In the realm of technology, Wang writes, Americans celebrate invention, whereas for the Chinese, “innovation emerges from the factory floor.”.....

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Stealers Wheel said:

Any workers rights or union power comes as a gift from the Chinese government. If those 'rights' ever prove to be a hinderance to the progress, they can and will be stripped away in a heartbeat.

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Stealers Wheel said:

You know what else China doesn't have? "Fake News," in other words there is no free press, no criticizing the government, no investigating corruption or appealing government decisions.

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Gozaburo said:

I mean all rights anywhere are a gift from the government. Where do you think rights come from?



I'm not sure how this is relevant.

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Stealers Wheel said:

So law is of no consequence anywhere? Do you believe that one's right to remain silent and to have legal counsel in the US is a simply a gift that can be stripped away on a whim?

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Stealers Wheel said:

And you say a free press is irrelevant in comparing the US vs China. Interesting take.

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Gozaburo said:

You don't have to remain silent, but yes - all rights exist under the shadow of the state. How else do you think they function ?



We were discussing the robustness of labor laws.

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Stealers Wheel said:

Now you're just yanking chains. You don't actually believe that law in the US can be ignored anytime the government wants to, right? If you do believe that, then you also believe that the entire US judicial system is a facade.

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anatta said:

Breakneck divide: China's builders vs America's lawyers - Asia Times

Dan Wang has written a book that brings a new perspective to understanding the differences in style of government between China and the US and the

asiatimes.com

The starkest contrast between the two countries is the competition that will define the twenty-first century: an American elite, made up of mostly lawyers, excelling at obstruction, versus a Chinese technocratic class, made up of mostly engineers, that excels at construction.

That’s the big idea behind this book. It’s time for a new lens to understand the two superpowers: China is an engineering state, building big at breakneck speed, in contrast to the United States’ lawyerly society, blocking everything it can, good and bad.

On his website, the author explains that his book is “driven by a few simple ideas”:

• That Americans and Chinese are fundamentally alike: restless, eager for shortcuts, ultimately driving most of the world’s big changes.
• That their rivalry should not be reasoned through with worn-out terms from the past century like socialist, democratic or neoliberal.
• And that both countries are tangles of imperfection, regularly delivering – in the name of competition – self-beatings that go beyond the wildest dreams of the other

“Engineers,” writes Wang, “have quite literally ruled modern China.… Xi Jinping studied chemical engineering at Tsinghua, China’s top science university.” And: “What do engineers like to do? Build.” A road network twice as long as that of the US, a high-speed rail network 20 times longer than Japan’s, and nearly as much solar and wind power as the rest of the world combined. The problem is, they can’t stop, applying their methods to social problems even when that it not appropriate.

After an inspiring description of the rise of venture capital and high-tech manufacturing in Shenzhen, Wang turns his attention to the brutal enforcement of the one-child policy and the severe Covid lockdown that drove people to desperation.

Capitalist America intrudes upon the free market with a dense program of regulation and taxation.… Socialist China detains union leaders, levies light taxes, and provides a threadbare social safety net. The greatest trick that the Communist Party ever pulled off is masquerading as leftist. While Xi Jinping and the rest of the Politburo mouth Marxist pieties, the state is enacting a right-wing agenda that Western conservatives would salivate over.

In the realm of technology, Wang writes, Americans celebrate invention, whereas for the Chinese, “innovation emerges from the factory floor.”.....

Click to expand...