Childlike Sex Dolls

[calamity]

I think that's a sign of progress. We need to ask ourselves why something is wrong, and whether that in of itself is a good enough reason to justify punishing people for it.

We punish pedophiles, but not for their desires. We punish them for their actions, when they act on those desires for children. The reason is obvious enough: they're harming children.



But a blow-up doll isn't a child. Nobody is harmed by this. Sure, you and I still think it's wrong. But there's lots of things you and I think are wrong that are also legal. In a free society, we have to separate ourselves from the idea that our personal moral code is, in of itself, enough to enforce onto others. I think it's wrong to burn a flag as an expression of anger towards America, but I believe you absolutely have the right to do it.

I guess the real question to answer is if this leads the perv to attempting more risky behavior. Buying a doll is already a step toward acting on deep taboo fantasies. It's clearly a step in the wrong direction.

I can also see it as a training tool for future grooming. Practice on the doll today; next week, try it on a real kid.

 

[calamity]

Some would argue that it's an attempt to provide a safe outlet for these desires that are wrong. Do you really want these pedophiles to go out and rape actual children instead? Or do you live in some fantasy world where pedophiles will just magically vanish under the banner of "it's wrong?"

You say it's normalizing child buggery, I don't see any evidence of that. I also don't see any evidence that it helps control these urges. We don't have any data on it, so I'm withholding judgment.

It certainly attempts to normalize buggering by proxy. Which is what I said.

 

[Deuce]

I guess the real question to answer is if this leads the perv to attempting more risky behavior. Buying a doll is already a step toward acting on deep taboo fantasies. It's clearly a step in the wrong direction.

I can also see it as a training tool for future grooming. Practice on the doll today; next week, try it on a real kid.

Right, that's certainly a real concern and a real possibility. But there's also the possibility that it prevents the escalation by providing a safe outlet for the urges. So which effect does it have?

Sadly, this is not something that has really been studied. I expect the answer would be "well it can be either." For some, it will provide a stepping stone for escalation. For others, it will provide a release and prevent escalation.

It certainly attempts to normalize buggering by proxy. Which is what I said.

Attempts involves a judgment of motivation, though. The guy who invented them says that isn't why he did it. I don't think anything is being normalized here, I see no evidence that there's growing support for actual molestation of a child.

 

[William Rea]

No. Some things really are "just wrong." Progressive Society turns 6,000 years of lessons learned on its head. More often than not, the results have been a disaster. In fact, it could be argued that simply forming agricultural societies has been the worst thing to happen on this planet since we were hit by the comet which wiped out the dinosaurs. Lord knows the planet has been stressed ever since.

As for this doll thing...yeah, it's just wrong. At the very least, it's an attempt to "normalize" child buggering by proxy.

Well, you have a record for finding things that actually work are too 'icky' for your social conservatism to bear. I wish you would just come out and admit that you just don't like stuff that's 'not normal', it would at least be honest calamity rather than trying to rationalise your crap like a conspiracy theorist.

 

[William Rea]

Right, that's certainly a real concern and a real possibility. But there's also the possibility that it prevents the escalation by providing a safe outlet for the urges. So which effect does it have?

Sadly, this is not something that has really been studied. I expect the answer would be "well it can be either." For some, it will provide a stepping stone for escalation. For others, it will provide a release and prevent escalation.



Attempts involves a judgment of motivation, though. The guy who invented them says that isn't why he did it. I don't think anything is being normalized here, I see no evidence that there's growing support for actual molestation of a child.

Essentially, it's a thought crime.

 

[calamity]

Well, you have a record for finding things that actually work are too 'icky' for your social conservatism to bear. I wish you would just come out and admit that you just don't like stuff that's 'not normal', it would at least be honest calamity rather than trying to rationalise your crap like a conspiracy theorist.

Do you have any proof that these things which are not "normal" actually work, and that promoting the "icky" helps to make society better?

Methinks you promoting the abnormal pleases you only because it normalizes your own lean for things deviant. You don't give a rat's ass about society. You just care about the things that affect you, much like the rest of us.

 

[Henrin]

I find it hard to believe these things are actually needed so someone doesn't rape a child.

 

[Henrin]

It certainly attempts to normalize buggering by proxy. Which is what I said.

I don't think it is trying to normalize anything. It appears to be attempting to help people with their urges in a rather misguided way, imho.

 

[calamity]

Right, that's certainly a real concern and a real possibility. But there's also the possibility that it prevents the escalation by providing a safe outlet for the urges. So which effect does it have?

Sadly, this is not something that has really been studied. I expect the answer would be "well it can be either." For some, it will provide a stepping stone for escalation. For others, it will provide a release and prevent escalation.



Attempts involves a judgment of motivation, though. The guy who invented them says that isn't why he did it. I don't think anything is being normalized here, I see no evidence that there's growing support for actual molestation of a child.

I guess, the binary argument here is if we should suppress these urges or provide for them an outlet. I lean toward suppressing them, stamping them out, if possible.

I actually would support hacking this company's mailing list and outing these creeps.

 

[Deuce]

I find it hard to believe these things are actually needed so someone doesn't rape a child.

Penicillin isn't needed to kill off a bacterial infection but that doesn't make it a bad idea.

 

[Henrin]

Penicillin isn't needed to kill off a bacterial infection but that doesn't make it a bad idea.

If someone feels inclined to rape someone and can't control that on their own then I don't think a doll is going to do much to help them.

 

[radcen]

I guess, the binary argument here is if we should suppress these urges or provide for them an outlet. I lean toward suppressing them, stamping them out, if possible.

I actually would support hacking this company's mailing list and outing these creeps.

Is it possible? If so, how would you propose we do that? Seriously. I'm open to ideas. Got any?

Here's a question I formulated many years ago: If we could do a rapture-like elimination of every single person who had ever molested a kid, and who had even thought of molesting a kid, and have the world truly free from these urges... would it then be 100% and permanently eliminated, or would new ones be born?

My formulation of this question had to do with whether the urges are natural or taught, but the question can apply here as well.

And in case your wondering, I do not *know* the answer, but I suspect that more would be born. I learn toward these urges being natural in the vast majority of instances.

 

[radcen]

If someone feels inclined to rape someone and can't control that on their own then I don't think a doll is going to do much to help them.

It could potentially delay some, if nothing else. There are those who know in their head it is wrong and try to fight it.

 

[calamity]

Is it possible? If so, how would you propose we do that? Seriously. I'm open to ideas. Got any?

Here's a question I formulated many years ago: If we could do a rapture-like elimination of every single person who had ever molested a kid, and who had even thought of molesting a kid, and have the world truly free from these urges... would it then be 100% and permanently eliminated, or would new ones be born?

My formulation of this question had to do with whether the urges are natural or taught, but the question can apply here as well.

And in case your wondering, I do not *know* the answer, but I suspect that more would be born. I learn toward these urges being natural in the vast majority of instances.

In my world, we nail anyone who comes after kids to a wall. If we prosecute people for simply watching child-porn, we should also prosecute them for having sex with child-like dolls. That's how you stamp them out. Find them, prosecute them, and lock them up until they are old and gray.

In a perfect world, this doll company operates like NBC Dateline, by luring creeps to their website and nails them when they place an order.

 

[maquiscat]

In my world, we nail anyone who comes after kids to a wall. If we prosecute people for simply watching child-porn, we should also prosecute them for having sex with child-like dolls. That's how you stamp them out. Find them, prosecute them, and lock them up until they are old and gray.

In a perfect world, this doll company operates like NBC Dateline, by luring creeps to their website and nails them when they place an order.

Ah yes, let's punish the person who is trying to not hurt children, instead of helping them.

 

[radcen]

In my world, we nail anyone who comes after kids to a wall. If we prosecute people for simply watching child-porn, we should also prosecute them for having sex with child-like dolls. That's how you stamp them out. Find them, prosecute them, and lock them up until they are old and gray.

In a perfect world, this doll company operates like NBC Dateline, by luring creeps to their website and nails them when they place an order.

If I read this right, your definition of "stamp out" is hyperbole and has absolutely nothing to do with 'stamping out', as in eliminating, as the phrase implies. It's just more punishment after/if they're caught. Vengeful punishment, actually, so you can feel better.

It is noted that you avoided my question regarding if it is natural or taught/learned. But that's ok, I did ask you directly. I thought maybe you would take a shot at it, but I guess not.

 

[calamity]

If I read this right, your definition of "stamp out" is hyperbole and has absolutely nothing to do with 'stamping out', as in eliminating, as the phrase implies. It's just more punishment after/if they're caught. Vengeful punishment, actually, so you can feel better.

It is noted that you avoided my question regarding if it is natural or taught/learned. But that's ok, I did ask you directly. I thought maybe you would take a shot at it, but I guess not.

Actually, it's not hyperbole. I believe we should hunt these people down and shoot them like dogs. Unfortunately, we don't play that way. Instead, we come up with excuses for them and suggest they **** child-like dolls.

 

[calamity]

Ah yes, let's punish the person who is trying to not hurt children, instead of helping them.

I take it you oppose child-porn, even if the porn is being used as a substitute for buggering the neighbor boy or girl. Correct?


I prefer we eradicate anyone who wants to have sex with children. If treatment cannot cure them, then break out the needles.

 

[radcen]

Actually, it's not hyperbole. I believe we should hunt these people down and shoot them like dogs. Unfortunately, we don't play that way. Instead, we come up with excuses for them and suggest they **** child-like dolls.

As long as your focus is punishment and vengeance, is IS hyperbole. You haven't proposed an iota of a plan for 'stamping out', only for driving it further underground in a quest to satisfy your own blood lust... not to mention sentencing countless kids to their own death sentences. If a guy knows he's going to be "shot like a dog" if he's caught, and a living kid can testify against him while a dead kid tells no tales (especially if the body is never found), many molesters will just kill the kid to improve their odds of getting away with it.

And for what? So you can feel morally superior. If you want shortsighted moral repugnance, there it is right there... it's you.

 

[calamity]

As long as your focus is punishment and vengeance, is IS hyperbole. You haven't proposed an iota of a plan for 'stamping out', only for driving it further underground in a quest to satisfy your own blood lust... not to mention sentencing countless kids to their own death sentences. If a guy knows he's going to be "shot like a dog" if he's caught, and a living kid can testify against him while a dead kid tells no tales (especially if the body is never found), many molesters will just kill the kid to improve their odds of getting away with it.

And for what? So you can feel morally superior. If you want shortsighted moral repugnance, there it is right there... it's you.

No. I presented a brilliant plan for stamping them out. Hack the computers at this perv site and go after the people on the mailing list. Out them, and send the pitch fork brigade to their homes.

Wanting to exterminate child-sex pervs is not feeling morally superior. It's simply a wise thing to do. If I had my way, I would also stamp out the Catholic Church and go after all those gymnastics coaches who molest kids, by hacking their computers to see if any kiddie porn is on them.

 

[LaylaWindu]

Can't see the op but so many things could be discussed under this topic going through the thread. First and foremost I don't think we should ever take it easy on convicted pedophiles. If they commit a crime throw the book at them, the punishment for child rape should be severe. And if you are a multiple offended or serial rapist I would even support capital punishment being an option. That being said a sex doll that is childlike breaks no laws that I'm aware off. I have no idea of the impact but if we go by other things it seems release is better then not having any. Anyway if the owner and manufacturing of this product can live with themselves, if their workers can live with themselves and they can make it through some of the resistance I'm sure they will find along the way, well . . . .so be it. I mean I can post all day how I personally think it's wrong and give my distaste about it but that's all it is. I don't know where to go from there, if there's no laws being broken I don't want any laws created about it either, that seems way to extreme and not something I'd support.

 

[zyzygy]

I had never heard of these things. What struck me is the lonely life that these people must live. If you had one of those things lying around then you couldn't have a partner staying with you or friends on sleepovers. What would they think if they found it?

 

[calamity]

Can't see the op but so many things could be discussed under this topic going through the thread. First and foremost I don't think we should ever take it easy on convicted pedophiles. If they commit a crime throw the book at them, the punishment for child rape should be severe. And if you are a multiple offended or serial rapist I would even support capital punishment being an option. That being said a sex doll that is childlike breaks no laws that I'm aware off. I have no idea of the impact but if we go by other things it seems release is better then not having any. Anyway if the owner and manufacturing of this product can live with themselves, if their workers can live with themselves and they can make it through some of the resistance I'm sure they will find along the way, well . . . .so be it. I mean I can post all day how I personally think it's wrong and give my distaste about it but that's all it is. I don't know where to go from there, if there's no laws being broken I don't want any laws created about it either, that seems way to extreme and not something I'd support.

Are you always going to enter my threads by first saying, "Can't see the op but ..."?

I mean, we get it, Lay. You have me on ignore. But, I do appreciate your willingness to participate.

 

[calamity]

I had never heard of these things. What struck me is the lonely life that these people must live. If you had one of those things lying around then you couldn't have a partner staying with you or friends on sleepovers. What would they think if they found it?

And, that by itself shows how dangerous these things may tend to be. They do the opposite of integrating the child-sex perv into normalcy, paving the way for them to assimilate and enter into the mainstream. I suggest behavior modification via therapy for non-offending people attracted to children, not giving them a toy to use to simulate sex with children.

 

[Henrin]

It could potentially delay some, if nothing else. There are those who know in their head it is wrong and try to fight it.

Doubtful. If the guy can't control himself around children then likely he will rape a child if he has the opportunity to do so regardless if he uses a doll for his urges.