• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Childlike Sex Dolls

calamity

Privileged
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
160,900
Reaction score
57,797
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Centrist
I'm with you on this. Creeps me out too.

In the short run it would seem to give the perv an outlet, but in the longer run, wouldn't this recurring outlet continue to build and intensify the perv's desire for the real thing?

Everything I have read to date seems to suggest this would be the case. The effective treatment for people attracted to children is to modify behavior and alter their thinking. This to me seems to encourage it and reinforce their sick fantasies.
 

calamity

Privileged
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
160,900
Reaction score
57,797
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Centrist
Honestly?

Let's throw a bit of research money at this, get some high-risk non-active pedophiles, and study whether this works.

If it works, give it to every non-active pedophile known to any therapist, doctor, or government agency in the damn world, until we find something better.

If it stops people from raping children, it is worth doing. Yes, it's creepy. Oh well. If it stops people from raping children, it is worth doing.

We need to be encouraging pedophiles to talk to someone and seek help. We can't do anything to protect children if they hide. And we can't do anything to help THEM if they hide, either. Lots of pedophiles realize that raping children is horribly wrong, and wish they weren't pedophiles. They're disturbed.

Because they hide, we have very limited opportunities to find new treatments for them. Generally, the only pedophiles we know about are the jailed, serial child molesters who often have co-morbid psychopathy. But this co-morbidity makes them a lot harder to treat.

What about all the non-active, hiding pedophiles? Well, we have no idea. Because they are justifiably afraid to even talk to a shrink, let alone their GP. And as much as it justifiably weirds people out, we need to find a way for these people to access help without fear so that we can actually figure out how to fix pedophilia, or at least find an outlet for them that works tor reduce their risk to the community. If this helps, then let's do it.

If it helps to out them, I'm all for it. Maybe someone will hack the company's mailing list. We can get Putin on that.
 

calamity

Privileged
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
160,900
Reaction score
57,797
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Centrist

maquiscat

Maquis Admiral
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 9, 2011
Messages
17,282
Reaction score
5,807
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
You could read the article in the op. Just a suggestion :roll:

I think it has been said enough time, regardless of one's side on an issue, that an article by itself, especially one that doesn't directly reference any research material, isn't really evidence. Anecdotal evidence at best.
 

calamity

Privileged
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
160,900
Reaction score
57,797
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Centrist
I think it has been said enough time, regardless of one's side on an issue, that an article by itself, especially one that doesn't directly reference any research material, isn't really evidence. Anecdotal evidence at best.
I never claimed it did. And, if you read the exact words William quoted, you'd see that.

Tough call. I figure the guy who founded the company followed a passion and a chance to turn it into a profitable business. As for it being of benefit, the experts are divided.
And, that is supported in the article.

Peter Fagan from the John Hopkins School of Medicine is skeptical that there ever will be. Citing cognitive-behavioral theory, the paraphilia researcher believes that contact with Trottla’s products would likely have a “reinforcing effect” on pedophilic ideation and “in many instances, cause it to be acted upon with greater urgency.” The research Fagan cites to support that conclusion is based on offenders, so it is unclear whether the effects would be different for non-offenders.

Michael Seto from the University of Toronto speculated on the possible existence of two distinct populations of pedophiles. Drawing an analogy to methadone treatment for opioid addicts, the psychiatrist hypothesized that “for some pedophiles, access to artificial child pornography or to child sex dolls could be a safer outlet for their sexual urges, reducing the likelihood that they would seek out child pornography or sex with real children. For others, having these substitutes might only aggravate their sense of frustration.”


“We don’t know, because the research hasn’t been done,” he concluded. “But, it would be a very important study to conduct.”

You two should get a room....you know, to compare notes.
 

Deuce

Outer space potato man
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
94,143
Reaction score
46,593
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Do you have evidence that the dolls prevent attacks? Perhaps the dolls spur attacks?



Plenty of people have problems with those. Also, can we really equate a game with murder (presumably not resulting in sexual gratification) and fantasies about raping children?

Can I compare murder and rape? Um... sure? Both are fairly heinous crimes. Why wouldn't we compare these things?

In terms of whether they should be legal to sell, I think the burden would rest upon proving they cause attacks, rather than prevent them.

Personally, I can't decide. As already alluded to in the thread, our general disgust for pedophiles makes it hard to stay objective. If there were some data to support the idea that it can be therapeutic and help stop someone afflicted with pedophilia from acting on their desires, I'd be a lot more supportive of the concept.

And I do use the word "afflicted" deliberately. I don't think it's something people choose. Attraction isn't a choice. Acting on it is.
 

chromium

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 6, 2013
Messages
16,968
Reaction score
3,770
Location
A2
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
It's very disturbing to me, but shutting your eyes to the world doesn't make it go away. Pedophiles do exist and i'm all for giving the help they need so that they don't act on those urges with a real kid

Having said that, Eco is right that we don't know if the dolls make it more or less likely they do pursue real kids. Even that publicly funded German program has under 50% completion rate, to say nothing of actual deterrence
 

Gaztopian

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Messages
1,476
Reaction score
481
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
I've known about this for a while, and I remain undecided. There's strong evidence that fantastical satisfaction of pedophilia curbs sex crimes against children by providing a seemingly benign outlet for such deviant urges. Japan is touted as an exemplar of the claim; it's a country with an unmatched sexually permissive culture that accommodates even the most deviant sexual fantasies. Yet supposedly, it has one of the lowest, if not the lowest, rates of sex crimes against children in the developed world.

Assuming that the evidence holds, I still can't get myself to accept such depravity, as I keep wondering whether accommodating a maladaptation is the answer, even if the logic behind the proposition is sound enough. We oughtn't be myopic and readily accept a questionable approach just because it appears to bear its fruits at once.
 

RetiredNSmilin

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
4,242
Reaction score
1,985
Location
East Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
The thoughts and actions on a doll would be likely to become deeds. This is just wrong.

Agreed.

Isn't it sad our society has digressed so far down the rabbit hole that saying something is " JUST WRONG ", has now become wrong to say?
 

William Rea

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 23, 2010
Messages
8,949
Reaction score
2,231
Location
UK
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Socialist
Agreed.

Isn't it sad our society has digressed so far down the rabbit hole that saying something is " JUST WRONG ", has now become wrong to say?

No, it is exactly the opposite. Accepting declarations at face value is wrong, asking someone to explain why something is 'just wrong' is exactly the right thing to do. We should encourage people to be critical of what they are told more often, that will progress society.
 

RetiredNSmilin

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
4,242
Reaction score
1,985
Location
East Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
No, it is exactly the opposite. Accepting declarations at face value is wrong, asking someone to explain why something is 'just wrong' is exactly the right thing to do. We should encourage people to be critical of what they are told more often, that will progress society.

Good point if you want a "progressive" society.
But if someone has to explain why acting out on their fantasies of child abuse with a training aid is "just plain wrong", then I want no part of that society.
I will stay in my Neanderthal cave with my backward thoughts.

(understand, please, this was not meant to be personal. Just a general comment about how some 'old fashioned" morals are still a good thing.)
 

AliHajiSheik

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 27, 2012
Messages
11,696
Reaction score
4,014
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
If these things are therapeutic and keep the same acts being performed on real children, then go for it. I don't care if they look like children, movie or porn stars, politicians or animals. As long as I don't have to see it, then a big whatever.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

William Rea

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 23, 2010
Messages
8,949
Reaction score
2,231
Location
UK
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Socialist
Good point if you want a "progressive" society.
But if someone has to explain why acting out on their fantasies of child abuse with a training aid is "just plain wrong", then I want no part of that society.
I will stay in my Neanderthal cave with my backward thoughts.

(understand, please, this was not meant to be personal. Just a general comment about how some 'old fashioned" morals are still a good thing.)

There was a time in our worlds when it had to be explained why slavery was wrong, or why putting children to work was wrong, or why imprisoning gay people was wrong. I don't accept that age gives any morality any kind of legitimacy, nothing personal from my side either.
 

radcen

Phonetic Mnemonic ©
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 3, 2011
Messages
34,817
Reaction score
18,574
Location
Look to your right... I'm that guy.
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Centrist
I can see where use of a doll might not completely stop a person's urges, and the person would succumb eventually, but it would delay them. That alone saves some kid somewhere, hence they have value.
 

maquiscat

Maquis Admiral
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 9, 2011
Messages
17,282
Reaction score
5,807
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
I can see where use of a doll might not completely stop a person's urges, and the person would succumb eventually, but it would delay them. That alone saves some kid somewhere, hence they have value.

Or buy some the time for more effective therapies.
 

Deuce

Outer space potato man
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
94,143
Reaction score
46,593
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Agreed.

Isn't it sad our society has digressed so far down the rabbit hole that saying something is " JUST WRONG ", has now become wrong to say?

I think that's a sign of progress. We need to ask ourselves why something is wrong, and whether that in of itself is a good enough reason to justify punishing people for it.

We punish pedophiles, but not for their desires. We punish them for their actions, when they act on those desires for children. The reason is obvious enough: they're harming children.

Good point if you want a "progressive" society.
But if someone has to explain why acting out on their fantasies of child abuse with a training aid is "just plain wrong", then I want no part of that society.
I will stay in my Neanderthal cave with my backward thoughts.

(understand, please, this was not meant to be personal. Just a general comment about how some 'old fashioned" morals are still a good thing.)

But a blow-up doll isn't a child. Nobody is harmed by this. Sure, you and I still think it's wrong. But there's lots of things you and I think are wrong that are also legal. In a free society, we have to separate ourselves from the idea that our personal moral code is, in of itself, enough to enforce onto others. I think it's wrong to burn a flag as an expression of anger towards America, but I believe you absolutely have the right to do it.
 

calamity

Privileged
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
160,900
Reaction score
57,797
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Centrist
No, it is exactly the opposite. Accepting declarations at face value is wrong, asking someone to explain why something is 'just wrong' is exactly the right thing to do. We should encourage people to be critical of what they are told more often, that will progress society.

No. Some things really are "just wrong." Progressive Society turns 6,000 years of lessons learned on its head. More often than not, the results have been a disaster. In fact, it could be argued that simply forming agricultural societies has been the worst thing to happen on this planet since we were hit by the comet which wiped out the dinosaurs. Lord knows the planet has been stressed ever since.

As for this doll thing...yeah, it's just wrong. At the very least, it's an attempt to "normalize" child buggering by proxy.
 

Deuce

Outer space potato man
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 6, 2010
Messages
94,143
Reaction score
46,593
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
No. Some things really are "just wrong." Progressive Society turns 6,000 years of lessons learned on its head. More often than not, the results have been a disaster. In fact, it could be argued that simply forming agricultural societies has been the worst thing to happen on this planet since we were hit by the comet which wiped out the dinosaurs. Lord knows the planet has been stressed ever since.

As for this doll thing...yeah, it's just wrong. At the very least, it's an attempt to "normalize" child buggering by proxy.

Some would argue that it's an attempt to provide a safe outlet for these desires that are wrong. Do you really want these pedophiles to go out and rape actual children instead? Or do you live in some fantasy world where pedophiles will just magically vanish under the banner of "it's wrong?"

You say it's normalizing child buggery, I don't see any evidence of that. I also don't see any evidence that it helps control these urges. We don't have any data on it, so I'm withholding judgment.
 
Top Bottom