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Che Guevara: Hero or thug?

FluffyNinja

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After seeing one of the current poster's sig line, I decided to pose this question. Many of the "Hollywood Elite" and those who see themselves a modern-day revolutionaries display their Che T-shirts and trinkets so proudly I must find out what the obsession is with this man, who, in my opinion is nothing more than a bandito, thug and mass murderer. Are those who uphold this criminal as "heroic" simply unaware of Che's COMPLETE past or do they simply choose to ignore it?
What about the concentration camps that were set up in Cuba by Che and Fidel to house (and ultimately dispose of) those Che referred to as "anti-socials?" This group included gays, and those caught listening to "Yankee Rock Music." Thousands of innocents were imprisoned, tortured and murdered at the order of the "Great Revolutionary."
Is this the best "icon" that so many "modern revolutionaries" and so-called "free-thinkers" in America can find these days? Pathetic.
:thinking
 
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LeftyHenry

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Re: CHe Guevara: Hero or thug?

FluffyNinja said:
After seeing one of the current poster's sig line, I decided to pose this question. Many of the "Hollywood Elite" and those who see themselves a modern-day revolutionaries display their Che T-shirts and trinkets so proudly I must find out what the obsession is with this man, who, in my opinion is nothing more than a bandito, thug and mass murderer. Are those who uphold this criminal as "heroic" simply unaware of Che's COMPLETE past or do they simply choose to ignore it?
What about the concentration camps that were set up in Cuba by Che and Fidel to house (and ultimately dispose of) those Che referred to as "anti-socials?" This group included gays, and those caught listening to "Yankee Rock Music." Thousands of innocents were imprisoned, tortured and murdered at the order of the "Great Revolutionary."
Is this the best "icon" that so many "modern revolutionaries" and so-called "free-thinkers" in America can find these days? Pathetic.
:thinking
Typical coming from a conservative. Always invent new ways to throw **** on one of the most revolutionary socialists ever.
Che did actually oversee a prison camp, not a concentration camp, but a prison camp. He oversaw the death of defectors of the revolution, like when eisenhower signed papers to execute 500 defectors in WWII. The gays and innocent is a myth. It's just BS. Che was a revolutionary, not a suit. He was out there in the mud not at a desk. He fought in the only way he could against corrupt US backed dicatorships that oppressed the people. It was not Che's goal for Cuba to be undemocratic. Che followed the ideas of Marx who said that socialism needs democracy like humans need air. This is a common misconception of Che and socialism
The reason why modern day revolutionaries look to Che's ideals is because he was a fierce fighter that fought for the causes that he believed in. No matter how many time conservatives try to pull this crap, Che will still be a symbol of social justice and equality.
 
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Re: CHe Guevara: Hero or thug?

Watched a documentary on the early days of the communist revolution. Saw a film archieve of a 'trial' of enemies of the state by Che. What I saw really disgusted me. Che sent these people off to be executed, in such an uncarring, apathetic mannor, that his true sociopathic nature was shown.

But I suppose that it is only right that land owners that resisted nationalisation of farms should be shot.

Yeah Che, he was a real charming guy.
 

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Re: CHe Guevara: Hero or thug?

Australianlibertarian said:
Watched a documentary on the early days of the communist revolution. Saw a film archieve of a 'trial' of enemies of the state by Che. What I saw really disgusted me. Che sent these people off to be executed, in such an uncarring, apathetic mannor, that his true sociopathic nature was shown.

But I suppose that it is only right that land owners that resisted nationalisation of farms should be shot.

Yeah Che, he was a real charming guy.
Ya I'm honestly sure farmers were killed considering that if you knew the first thing about Che vs. Castro you would know that Che was most closely related Maoism while castro to lenin-stalinism. Meaning Che supported the poor and abused farmers.

Look I'm sorry your conservative film showed the hardships of a revolution, and I'm sorry that CHe didn't have a tea party a negotiation with them but the fact is that it was a revolution! You honestly aren't naive enough to think that the minutemen didn't kill loyalists, are you? That the French didn't use the gillotine against the nobles, do you? The working class had been oppressed by the upper class and rich farmers. It was a revolution. Che was a revolutionary. He wasn't a politician in a desk, but a guerilla in the mud.
 

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Re: CHe Guevara: Hero or thug?

Australianlibertarian said:
So does that mean that you support violance to topple oppressive regimes?
if there is no other option, yes. I prefer change through peace and negotiation but if this is not possible, the people must take matters into there own hands.
 

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Re: CHe Guevara: Hero or thug?

Is this the best "icon" that so many "modern revolutionaries" and so-called "free-thinkers" in America can find these days?
No, I think Gueverra was OK, but nowhere near a hero, because in reality, "heroes" do not exist. I think he was a bit misguided, as violence is the only solution, and was a bit fanatical and dogmatic. I myself prefer Marx, Engels, Lenin, Debs, Trotsky, etc. etc.
Marx who said that socialism needs democracy like humans need air
I don't recall Marx saying that, though Trotsky did say "Socialism needs democracy as the human body needs oxygen."
Yeah Che, he was a real charming guy.
I hope that was sarcastic, from what I know Gueverra was not the most charming person, though I don't put him in the bloodthirsty group.
 

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Re: CHe Guevara: Hero or thug?

Che said:
The reason why modern day revolutionaries look to Che's ideals is because he was a fierce fighter that fought for the causes that he believed in. No matter how many time conservatives try to pull this crap, Che will still be a symbol of social justice and equality.
I find it curious that Che is allowed to fight for what he believes, but those who you disagree with, conservatives, are not.
 

Trajan Octavian Titus

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Re: CHe Guevara: Hero or thug?

FluffyNinja said:
After seeing one of the current poster's sig line, I decided to pose this question. Many of the "Hollywood Elite" and those who see themselves a modern-day revolutionaries display their Che T-shirts and trinkets so proudly I must find out what the obsession is with this man, who, in my opinion is nothing more than a bandito, thug and mass murderer. Are those who uphold this criminal as "heroic" simply unaware of Che's COMPLETE past or do they simply choose to ignore it?
What about the concentration camps that were set up in Cuba by Che and Fidel to house (and ultimately dispose of) those Che referred to as "anti-socials?" This group included gays, and those caught listening to "Yankee Rock Music." Thousands of innocents were imprisoned, tortured and murdered at the order of the "Great Revolutionary."
Is this the best "icon" that so many "modern revolutionaries" and so-called "free-thinkers" in America can find these days? Pathetic.
:thinking
I'm glad he's dead and if he wasn't I'd put a bullet in his head myself fuc/k Guevara may he rot in hell. Viva alpha 66!!!!
 

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Re: CHe Guevara: Hero or thug?

Trajan Octavian Titus said:
I'm glad he's dead and if he wasn't I'd put a bullet in his head myself fuc/k Guevara may he rot in hell. Viva alpha 66!!!!
I'd love to see that
:lol:
 

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Re: CHe Guevara: Hero or thug?

-Demosthenes- said:
I find it curious that Che is allowed to fight for what he believes, but those who you disagree with, conservatives, are not.
I never said they aren't.
 

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Re: CHe Guevara: Hero or thug?

Comrade Brian said:
No, I think Gueverra was OK, but nowhere near a hero, because in reality, "heroes" do not exist. I think he was a bit misguided, as violence is the only solution, and was a bit fanatical and dogmatic. I myself prefer Marx, Engels, Lenin, Debs, Trotsky, etc. etc.
Ya marx, trosky and lenin were the masterminds, while Che was the foot soldier who became a symbol of the communist/socialist revolution.



I don't recall Marx saying that, though Trotsky did say "Socialism needs democracy as the human body needs oxygen."
Right, I thought it was Marx but I guess you'd know better

I hope that was sarcastic, from what I know Gueverra was not the most charming person, though I don't put him in the bloodthirsty group.
I don't know of any freedom fighter/ guerrilla who is "charming".
 

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Re: CHe Guevara: Hero or thug?

Che said:
Ya marx, trosky and lenin were the masterminds, while Che was the foot soldier who became a symbol of the communist/socialist revolution.





Right, I thought it was Marx but I guess you'd know better



I don't know of any freedom fighter/ guerrilla who is "charming".
Freedom fighter? Ha, are you Cuban? Do you have any family or friends who escaped those tyrant bastards? No, I thought not you're just a college kid ideolog who knows not the slightest bit about what he's talking about, it was naive people just like you that allowed those fascist bastards to seize power in the first place and now you marty that piece of human trash??!! I suggest you go to Miami and start talking about how great Guevara is.
 

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Re: CHe Guevara: Hero or thug?

Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Freedom fighter? Ha, are you Cuban? Do you have any family or friends who escaped those tyrant bastards? No, I thought not you're just a college kid ideolog who knows not the slightest bit about what he's talking about, it was naive people just like you that allowed those fascist bastards to seize power in the first place and now you marty that piece of human trash??!! I suggest you go to Miami and start talking about how great Guevara is.
Did I ever say I supported current day Cuba? In fact, I think I said numerous times that I think Castro should be removed since he has abused his power. Current day Cuba is a disgrace to communism it shames the name. It is in no way related to true communism but rather the peverted Stalinism. I think it's great that you know how to talk out of your *** and claim you know me. I have in fact been to Cuba, and have known people outside of Cuba. If I actually go down to Miami, in the poor neighborhoods run by gangs where cubans live, I'm sure they'll slander Che alot my friend. Since they have become so successful in this capitalist system.

I p!ss on Guevara's grave.
what is the point of this constant Che slander? It's pointless and makes look retarded.
 

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Re: CHe Guevara: Hero or thug?

Che said:
Did I ever say I supported current day Cuba? In fact, I think I said numerous times that I think Castro should be removed since he has abused his power. Current day Cuba is a disgrace to communism it shames the name. It is in no way related to true communism but rather the peverted Stalinism. I think it's great that you know how to talk out of your *** and claim you know me. I have in fact been to Cuba, and have known people outside of Cuba. If I actually go down to Miami, in the poor neighborhoods run by gangs where cubans live, I'm sure they'll slander Che alot my friend. Since they have become so successful in this capitalist system.



what is the point of this constant Che slander? It's pointless and makes look retarded.
Whatever man Cuba is what it is partly in fault to Guevara, and Guevara and Castros communist policies are what made Cuba what it is today, Cuba started going down hill as soon as Castro and his Fidelistos took power, IE court packing, state control of the press, the seizure of all land and private property, and the mock trials and executions of dissedents. In all of this Guevara actively participated in and supported. Like I said you're just a college kid who knows nothing about what he's talking about, Guevara was a thug footsoldier enforcer for a tyrant!
 

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Re: CHe Guevara: Hero or thug?

Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Whatever man Cuba is what it is partly in fault to Guevara, and Guevara and Castros communist policies are what made Cuba what it is today, Cuba started going down hill as soon as Castro and his Fidelistos took power, IE court packing, state control of the press, the seizure of all land and private property, and the mock trials and executions of dissedents. In all of this Guevara actively participated in and supported. Like I said you're just a college kid who knows nothing about what he's talking about, Guevara was a thug footsoldier enforcer for a tyrant!
I agree. The reason I originally posted the question was to try and figure out how an entire generation of Americans could become so misled by all of the revisionist history surrounding Che Guevara and Communism in general. WHere is the historical evidence to show that Marx, Lenin, Engels or Guevara were correct in ANY of their predictions concerning the "evolution of the communist state?" Where is the evidence of ANY communist regime that has resulted in better living conditions or an improved atmosphere for human rights any where? I just don't get it? What's the obsession with communism? Are there those who truly believe that this system which has historically resulted in the toture, murder and oppression of millions worldwide will ever work?:thinking
 
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Trajan Octavian Titus

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Re: CHe Guevara: Hero or thug?

FluffyNinja said:
I agree. The reason I originally posted the question was to try and figure out how an entire generation of Americans could become so misled by all of the revisionist history surrounding Che Guevara and Communism in general. WHere is the historical evidence to show that Marx, Lenin, Engels or Guevara were correct in ANY of their predictions concerning the "evolution of the communist state?" Where is the evidence of ANY communist regime that has resulted in better living conditions or an improved atmosphere for human rights any where? I just don't get it? What's the obsession with communism? Are there those who truly believe that this system which has historically resulted in the toture, murder and oppression of millions worldwide will ever work?:thinking
They're freaking sheep who have been indoctrinated with socialist bullshit and anti-American propoganda from their liberal professors, they base all of their stances on revisionist history, distortions, and lies. I call it the Chomsky complex, they're tricked by smooth talking liers nothing more nothing less. Thankgod the majority of my generation that grew up during the Reagan era knows better. I don't know one single person who believes this trash which is partly due to Conservatives taking back the freedom of the press from liberal fascists who controlled it for nearly 40 years under the guise of the FCC's fascist "fairness doctrine." People are finally waking up to the failures of the welfare state and socialist ideology. Better late than never. ;)
 

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Re: CHe Guevara: Hero or thug?

Cuba started going down hill as soon as Castro and his Fidelistos took power, IE court packing, state control of the press, the seizure of all land and private property, and the mock trials and executions of dissedents. In all of this Guevara actively participated in and supported.
Cuba before Castro was pretty bad. This this guy was a hero.



And Castro's relations to the USSR has probably helped his country overall, until its demise. But currently Cuba does have one the better health and "education" systems in Latin Ameica.
Where is the evidence of ANY communist regime that has resulted in better living conditions or an improved atmosphere for human rights any where?
Russia, if I recall the Tsars were pretty bad, though Russia was taken off course in the 20's it has still overall shown an improvement. And currently it has gotten worse, with now conditions and health being quite terrible than it was before.
They're freaking sheep who have been indoctrinated with socialist bullshit and anti-American propoganda from their liberal professors, they base all of their stances on revisionist history, distortions, and lies. I call it the Chomsky complex, they're tricked by smooth talking liers nothing more nothing less. Thankgod the majority of my generation that grew up during the Reagan era knows better. I don't know one single person who believes this trash which is partly due to Conservatives taking back the freedom of the press from liberal fascists who controlled it for nearly 40 years under the guise of the FCC's fascist "fairness doctrine." People are finally waking up to the failures of the welfare state and socialist ideology
HA! And you call us liars and spreaders of "propaganda".
 

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Re: CHe Guevara: Hero or thug?

I'm glad he's dead and if he wasn't I'd put a bullet in his head myself fuc/k Guevara may he rot in hell. Viva alpha 66!!!!
Or more likely you would just sit on the computer and cry on the forums.
 

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Re: CHe Guevara: Hero or thug?

Comrade Brian said:
Cuba before Castro was pretty bad. This this guy was a hero.



And Castro's relations to the USSR has probably helped his country overall, until its demise. But currently Cuba does have one the better health and "education" systems in Latin Ameica.

Russia, if I recall the Tsars were pretty bad, though Russia was taken off course in the 20's it has still overall shown an improvement. And currently it has gotten worse, with now conditions and health being quite terrible than it was before.
Yeah, Stalin's Show Trials were great, and let's not forget that Stalin had more people murdered than Hitler! The Soviet Union must've been an outstanding place to live under the Communist Regime! You've clarified it for me; now I understand why none of them were trying to immigrate to America! Wait........now I remember............NONE OF THEM WERE ALLOWED TO LEAVE.:roll:
 

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Re: CHe Guevara: Hero or thug?

Comrade Brian said:
Cuba before Castro was pretty bad. This this guy was a hero.



And Castro's relations to the USSR has probably helped his country overall, until its demise. But currently Cuba does have one the better health and "education" systems in Latin Ameica.

Russia, if I recall the Tsars were pretty bad, though Russia was taken off course in the 20's it has still overall shown an improvement. And currently it has gotten worse, with now conditions and health being quite terrible than it was before.

HA! And you call us liars and spreaders of "propaganda".
Bullshit Cuba was alot more prosperous under Batista then it was under Castro, their sugar cain output was higher and so was the living standard, the Communist scum bags destroyed Cuba. You have no idea what you're talking about. You are a lier and you are spreading propaganda, you claim that Communism, one of if not the most harmful ideologies the world has ever seen, was a good thing. Catch a clue!!!!!
 

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Che said:
I never said they aren't.
I am relieved.

Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Bullshit Cuba was alot more prosperous under Batista then it was under Castro, their sugar cain output was higher and so was the living standard, the Communist scum bags destroyed Cuba. You have no idea what you're talking about. You are a lier and you are spreading propaganda, you claim that Communism, one of if not the most harmful ideologies the world has ever seen, was a good thing. Catch a clue!!!!!
From what I understand it wasn't very good or after.
 
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