Censorship on Debate Politics? (1 Viewer)

[The_Real_ElRoi]

Recently, I initiated a thread titled "Everything you ever wanted to know about..." (http://www.debatepolitics.com/gover...ng-you-ever-wanted-know-about.html#post316006) in the "Government & Separation of Powers" forum. The purpose of this thread was to help enlighten DP readers and particpants on the history of US Foreign Policy and how these policies have effected the world. This was to be achieved by directing said DPer's to reference materials by containing well known and some not so well known facts on this subject. In an effort to stimulate discussion in the thread (I have to admit it has only received 41 views and most of them are me) I began posting the content of one of the suggested sources. The source in question is Noam Chomsky's book title "What Uncle Sam Really Wants." This book has been made available online at http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/sam/ with, I can only assume, the permission of Mr. Chomsky. The only reply I received in that threads was this from Simon W. Moon:

Moderator's Warning:
Actually, you won't post a chapter a day here.
If folks don't care enough to click a link to read the thing why would it matter that you have changed which link they have to click?

Further, posting the entirety of copyrighted works is not allowed here.

I must take one exception to Mr. Moon's statement. I have no idea what he is referring to when he says, "why would it matter that you have changed which link they have to click." I have altered non of the links in that thread since the moment I first posted it. Also, considering the nature of the thread, I wonder if Mr. Moon's right leaning political views had any effect on his decision as a so-called "moderater" to close the thread entirely? I have no problem being warned if I am in violation of some rule, but to totally close a thread (even one that was obviously of little notice to most DPer's) to any future debate smacks of censorship in my oppinion.

 

[LogicalReason]

I read chapter 1. Actually seemed like a decent book.

 

[jfuh]

Recently, I initiated a thread titled "Everything you ever wanted to know about..." (http://www.debatepolitics.com/government-separation-powers/11090-everything-you-ever-wanted-know-about.html#post316006) in the "Government & Separation of Powers" forum. The purpose of this thread was to help enlighten DP readers and particpants on the history of US Foreign Policy and how these policies have effected the world. This was to be achieved by directing said DPer's to reference materials by containing well known and some not so well known facts on this subject. In an effort to stimulate discussion in the thread (I have to admit it has only received 41 views and most of them are me) I began posting the content of one of the suggested sources. The source in question is Noam Chomsky's book title "What Uncle Sam Really Wants." This book has been made available online at http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/sam/ with, I can only assume, the permission of Mr. Chomsky. The only reply I received in that threads was this from Simon W. Moon:

Moderator's Warning:
Actually, you won't post a chapter a day here.
If folks don't care enough to click a link to read the thing why would it matter that you have changed which link they have to click?

Further, posting the entirety of copyrighted works is not allowed here.

I must take one exception to Mr. Moon's statement. I have no idea what he is referring to when he says, "why would it matter that you have changed which link they have to click." I have altered non of the links in that thread since the moment I first posted it. Also, considering the nature of the thread, I wonder if Mr. Moon's right leaning political views had any effect on his decision as a so-called "moderater" to close the thread entirely? I have no problem being warned if I am in violation of some rule, but to totally close a thread (even one that was obviously of little notice to most DPer's) to any future debate smacks of censorship in my oppinion.

That's not censorship. Those are the forum rules. Just post a link and that's it. Take a snippet of relevance to the argument you are presenting.

 

[Donkey1499]

Oh well, Noam Chomsky is an *** wipe anyways. The guy's a frickin' kook. He's also a hypocrite; he slanders the US Military, but does experiments and other research for them. What a retard.

 

[The_Real_ElRoi]

Oh well, Noam Chomsky is an *** wipe anyways. The guy's a frickin' kook. He's also a hypocrite; he slanders the US Military, but does experiments and other research for them. What a retard.

From the MIT website:
http://web.mit.edu/linguistics/www/chomsky.home.html

Noam Chomsky was born on December 7, 1928 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. His undergraduate and graduate years were spent at the University of Pennsylvania where he received his PhD in linguistics in 1955. During the years 1951 to 1955, Chomsky was a Junior Fellow of the Harvard University Society of Fellows. While a Junior Fellow he completed his doctoral dissertation entitled, "Transformational Analysis." The major theoretical viewpoints of the dissertation appeared in the monograph Syntactic Structure, which was published in 1957. This formed part of a more extensive work, The Logical Structure of Linguistic Theory, circulated in mimeograph in 1955 and published in 1975.

Chomsky joined the staff of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in 1955 and in 1961 was appointed full professor in the Department of Modern Languages and Linguistics (now the Department of Linguistics and Philosophy.) From 1966 to 1976 he held the Ferrari P. Ward Professorship of Modern Languages and Linguistics. In 1976 he was appointed Institute Professor.

During the years 1958 to 1959 Chomsky was in residence at the Institute for Advanced Study at Princeton, NJ. In the spring of 1969 he delivered the John Locke Lectures at Oxford; in January 1970 he delivered the Bertrand Russell Memorial Lecture at Cambridge University; in 1972, the Nehru Memorial Lecture in New Delhi, and in 1977, the Huizinga Lecture in Leiden, among many others.

Professor Chomsky has received honorary degrees from University of London, University of Chicago, Loyola University of Chicago, Swarthmore College, Delhi University, Bard College, University of Massachusetts, University of Pennsylvania, Georgetown University, Amherst College, Cambridge University, University of Buenos Aires, McGill University, Universitat Rovira I Virgili, Tarragona, Columbia University, University of Connecticut, Scuola Normale Superiore, Pisa, University of Western Ontario, University of Toronto, Harvard University, University of Calcutta, and Universidad Nacional De Colombia. He is a Fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences and the National Academy of Science. In addition, he is a member of other professional and learned societies in the United States and abroad, and is a recipient of the Distinguished Scientific Contribution Award of the American Psychological Association, the Kyoto Prize in Basic Sciences, the Helmholtz Medal, the Dorothy Eldridge Peacemaker Award, the Ben Franklin Medal in Computer and Cognitive Science, and others.

Chomsky has written and lectured widely on linguistics, philosophy, intellectual history, contemporary issues, international affairs and U.S. foreign policy. His works include: Aspects of the Theory of Syntax; Cartesian Linguistics; Sound Pattern of English (with Morris Halle); Language and Mind; American Power and the New Mandarins; At War with Asia; For Reasons of State; Peace in the Middle East?; Reflections on Language; The Political Economy of Human Rights, Vol. I and II (with E.S. Herman); Rules and Representations; Lectures on Government and Binding; Towards a New Cold War; Radical Priorities; Fateful Triangle; Knowledge of Language; Turning the Tide; Pirates and Emperors; On Power and Ideology; Language and Problems of Knowledge; The Culture of Terrorism; Manufacturing Consent (with E.S. Herman); Necessary Illusions; Deterring Democracy; Year 501; Rethinking Camelot: JFK, the Vietnam War and US Political Culture; Letters from Lexington; World Orders, Old and New; The Minimalist Program; Powers and Prospects; The Common Good; Profit Over People; The New Military Humanism; New Horizons in the Study of Language and Mind; Rogue States; A New Generation Draws the Line; 9-11; and Understanding Power.


I'm sure you are as accomplished in your field of endeavor as Mr. Chomsky is in his, right?

 

[The_Real_ElRoi]

That's not censorship. Those are the forum rules. Just post a link and that's it. Take a snippet of relevance to the argument you are presenting.

I'm fine with following the rules, but what is with locking the thread out so as to quash any and all possibility of future debate on the subject in said thread? I wouldn't have posted anymore of the text after being warned. So, yes it is a bit like censorship.

 

[Donkey1499]

From the MIT website:
http://web.mit.edu/linguistics/www/chomsky.home.html

Noam Chomsky was born on December 7, 1928 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. His undergraduate and graduate years were spent at the University of Pennsylvania where he received his PhD in linguistics in 1955. During the years 1951 to 1955, Chomsky was a Junior Fellow of the Harvard University Society of Fellows. While a Junior Fellow he completed his doctoral dissertation entitled, "Transformational Analysis." The major theoretical viewpoints of the dissertation appeared in the monograph Syntactic Structure, which was published in 1957. This formed part of a more extensive work, The Logical Structure of Linguistic Theory, circulated in mimeograph in 1955 and published in 1975.

Chomsky joined the staff of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in 1955 and in 1961 was appointed full professor in the Department of Modern Languages and Linguistics (now the Department of Linguistics and Philosophy.) From 1966 to 1976 he held the Ferrari P. Ward Professorship of Modern Languages and Linguistics. In 1976 he was appointed Institute Professor.

During the years 1958 to 1959 Chomsky was in residence at the Institute for Advanced Study at Princeton, NJ. In the spring of 1969 he delivered the John Locke Lectures at Oxford; in January 1970 he delivered the Bertrand Russell Memorial Lecture at Cambridge University; in 1972, the Nehru Memorial Lecture in New Delhi, and in 1977, the Huizinga Lecture in Leiden, among many others.

Professor Chomsky has received honorary degrees from University of London, University of Chicago, Loyola University of Chicago, Swarthmore College, Delhi University, Bard College, University of Massachusetts, University of Pennsylvania, Georgetown University, Amherst College, Cambridge University, University of Buenos Aires, McGill University, Universitat Rovira I Virgili, Tarragona, Columbia University, University of Connecticut, Scuola Normale Superiore, Pisa, University of Western Ontario, University of Toronto, Harvard University, University of Calcutta, and Universidad Nacional De Colombia. He is a Fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences and the National Academy of Science. In addition, he is a member of other professional and learned societies in the United States and abroad, and is a recipient of the Distinguished Scientific Contribution Award of the American Psychological Association, the Kyoto Prize in Basic Sciences, the Helmholtz Medal, the Dorothy Eldridge Peacemaker Award, the Ben Franklin Medal in Computer and Cognitive Science, and others.

Chomsky has written and lectured widely on linguistics, philosophy, intellectual history, contemporary issues, international affairs and U.S. foreign policy. His works include: Aspects of the Theory of Syntax; Cartesian Linguistics; Sound Pattern of English (with Morris Halle); Language and Mind; American Power and the New Mandarins; At War with Asia; For Reasons of State; Peace in the Middle East?; Reflections on Language; The Political Economy of Human Rights, Vol. I and II (with E.S. Herman); Rules and Representations; Lectures on Government and Binding; Towards a New Cold War; Radical Priorities; Fateful Triangle; Knowledge of Language; Turning the Tide; Pirates and Emperors; On Power and Ideology; Language and Problems of Knowledge; The Culture of Terrorism; Manufacturing Consent (with E.S. Herman); Necessary Illusions; Deterring Democracy; Year 501; Rethinking Camelot: JFK, the Vietnam War and US Political Culture; Letters from Lexington; World Orders, Old and New; The Minimalist Program; Powers and Prospects; The Common Good; Profit Over People; The New Military Humanism; New Horizons in the Study of Language and Mind; Rogue States; A New Generation Draws the Line; 9-11; and Understanding Power.


I'm sure you are as accomplished in your field of endeavor as Mr. Chomsky is in his, right?

So.... he has a bunch of degrees and is therefore declared correct in everything he does and says? Sorry, but I don't see it that way. Chomsky is a liberal piece of **** as far as I'm concerned.

 

[The_Real_ElRoi]

So.... he has a bunch of degrees and is therefore declared correct in everything he does and says? Sorry, but I don't see it that way. Chomsky is a liberal piece of **** as far as I'm concerned.

You articulate your rebuttal with such utter moronic fervor that I myself am almost convinced that this highly intelligent and extremely accomplished man is indeed, as you so eloquently put it, "a liberal piece of ****." Your jingoistic logic has totally turned me around on this thing.

 

[zymurgy]

Being brilliant in linguistics doesn't make you brilliant on every subject matter.

The guy is a complete tool, as is all "Blame America First" people.

He once compared our staging a terrorist attack against an empty ship (one of our own) with blowing up the twin towers. 0 casualties, no property damage to another country, yet he compares it to 9/11.

He makes it that much harder for anybody else (like me) with legitimate complaints against the federal goverment to speak their mind.

Freaking tool.

 

[LogicalReason]

I would like to point out that I only read up to the part about America coming out of the war as the most powerful nation on earth. Not the other bad stuff..

 

[Donkey1499]

You articulate your rebuttal with such utter moronic fervor that I myself am almost convinced that this highly intelligent and extremely accomplished man is indeed, as you so eloquently put it, "a liberal piece of ****." Your jingoistic logic has totally turned me around on this thing.

So his extensive educational background makes him more intelligent than me? Tell me how this is so? I bet that he isn't as good at photography as I am, but does that mean I'm better than him? Not necessarily. I still stand by my earlier comments about him. He's a hypocrite, a liar, anti-american, and radical, bleeding-heart leftist. He makes Ted Kennedy look like a moderate!

 

[The_Real_ElRoi]

Being brilliant in linguistics doesn't make you brilliant on every subject matter.

The guy is a complete tool, as is all "Blame America First" people.

He once compared our staging a terrorist attack against an empty ship (one of our own) with blowing up the twin towers. 0 casualties, no property damage to another country, yet he compares it to 9/11.

He makes it that much harder for anybody else (like me) with legitimate complaints against the federal goverment to speak their mind.

Freaking tool.

Exactly how much of his work have you read? None would be my guess. But that's just a guess. I am afraid that you, my friend, are the tool.

 

[The_Real_ElRoi]

So his extensive educational background makes him more intelligent than me? Tell me how this is so? I bet that he isn't as good at photography as I am, but does that mean I'm better than him? Not necessarily. I still stand by my earlier comments about him. He's a hypocrite, a liar, anti-american, and radical, bleeding-heart leftist. He makes Ted Kennedy look like a moderate!

Once again your logic, or lack there of, overwhelms any argument I might possibly pose.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

I must take one exception to Mr. Moon's statement. I have no idea what he is referring to when he says, "why would it matter that you have changed which link they have to click." I have altered non of the links in that thread since the moment I first posted it.

If they have to click on the link to open your thread, how is that different from having to click link that leads to the original?
If folks don't care to click on a link to read the thing [the original link] why would they care to click on a link to read the thing just because you linked to the same thing in a different place [your thread]?
If they don't want to read the thing they ain't gonna read it no matter where you put it. If they do want to read the thing they'll click on the link and read it. But copying it from one behind one link to behind another doesn't make it anymore likely that someone's gonna want to read it.

Also, considering the nature of the thread, I wonder if Mr. Moon's right leaning political views had any effect on his decision as a so-called "moderater" to close the thread entirely? I have no problem being warned if I am in violation of some rule, but to totally close a thread (even one that was obviously of little notice to most DPer's) to any future debate smacks of censorship in my oppinion.

Feel free to restart the thread following DP fair use policy:

"Please do not post entire articles. Proper format is to paraphrase the contents of an article and/or post relevant excerpts and then link to the rest. "
​

 

[zymurgy]

Exactly how much of his work have you read? None would be my guess. But that's just a guess. I am afraid that you, my friend, are the tool.

Once I see they lie repeatedly, I stop reading. What's the point in reading made up crap?

Anybody with his lips solidly planted on Noam Chomsky's *** will never be my friend BTW.

 

[The_Real_ElRoi]

Once I see they lie repeatedly, I stop reading. What's the point in reading made up crap?

Anybody with his lips solidly planted on Noam Chomsky's *** will never be my friend BTW.

So, just exactly what parts of Mr. Chomsky's writings do you find to be fraudulent? Examples please.

By the way, there are numerous other extremely credible authors that have investigated and written about many of the same subjects that Mr. Chomsky has written about and they have all came to the same conclusions as he. Gore Vidal for one. However, there are many others.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Moderator's Warning:

DP members are not the subject of this thread. Anyone who wishes to explore their feelings for their fellow posters should do so in a different thread in the Basement.

 

[zymurgy]

So, just exactly what parts of Mr. Chomsky's writing do you find to be fraudulent? Examples please.

How about calling the Afghan war "silent genocide"

How about my original critique where he accuses us of terrorism for a false flag operation of blowing up one of our own ships. The details escape me, but essentially he excuses 9/11. It was all our fault.

How about his views of the contras. Apparently providing seed money to people seeking to overthrow dictators is one and the same as terrorism.

Those damn french terrorist funded our freedom way back when.

This guy blames America for everything. Obviously you do as well, since you love this piece of shat with all your heart.

 

[The_Real_ElRoi]

If they have to click on the link to open your thread, how is that different from having to click link that leads to the original?
If folks don't care to click on a link to read the thing [the original link] why would they care to click on a link to read the thing just because you linked to the same thing in a different place [your thread]?
If they don't want to read the thing they ain't gonna read it no matter where you put it. If they do want to read the thing they'll click on the link and read it. But copying it from one behind one link to behind another doesn't make it anymore likely that someone's gonna want to read it.

Your incessant rambling and circular logic makes me a bit dizzy. The fact of the matter is, if people don't like the thread they can avoid entering it. The real truth of the matter is that you didn't like the subject and thus used your excessive power as a so-called moderator to assure that no one would have the opportunity to comment on it.

 

[Donkey1499]

Once again your logic, or lack there of, overwhelms any argument I might possibly pose.

So I lack logic because I doesn't agree with Chomsky? You're blind an a fool. Then again, Chomsky IS a fool. But who's more foolish, the fool or the fool that follows him?

 

[Donkey1499]

Your incessant rambling and circular logic makes me a bit dizzy. The fact of the matter is, if people don't like the thread they can avoid entering it. The real truth of the matter is that you didn't like the subject and thus used your excessive power as a so-called moderator to assure that no one would have the opportunity to comment on it.

Dude, you're not getting it! All you had to do was leave your original link alone. You broke the rules by posting chapters when you had already provided a link. You are not supposed to post whole articles, it's not allowed for copyright reasons. I've been reprimanded for copyright stuff on here before also, so don't take what Moon says personally. He's just trying to keep this site from getting into trouble. Just read the rules on here.

 

[The_Real_ElRoi]

Moderator's Warning:

DP members are not the subject of this thread. Anyone who wishes to explore their feelings for their fellow posters should do so in a different thread in the Basement.

What a bully pulpit you have here.

 

[The_Real_ElRoi]

How about calling the Afghan war "silent genocide"

How about my original critique where he accuses us of terrorism for a false flag operation of blowing up one of our own ships. The details escape me, but essentially he excuses 9/11. It was all our fault.

How about his views of the contras. Apparently providing seed money to people seeking to overthrow dictators is one and the same as terrorism.

Those damn french terrorist funded our freedom way back when.

This guy blames America for everything. Obviously you do as well, since you love this piece of shat with all your heart.

The US has been covertly, and often overtly, manipulating the political and economical landscape of numerous souvenir Nations around the world for over a hundred years now. Wake up and do a little reading outside of the right-wing propaganda that you have obviously misinformed yourself with throughout your life time.

Oh, and on the subject of the Contras:
http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/sam/sam-2-02.html

 

[zymurgy]

The US has been covertly, and often overtly, manipulating the political and economical landscape of numerous souvenir Nations around the world for over a hundred years now. Wake up and do a little reading outside of the right-wing propaganda that you have obviously misinformed yourself with throughout your life time.

Oh, and on the subject of the Contras:
http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/sam/sam-2-02.html

You keep linking to a known liar to collaberate your views (views which you likely got from the known liar in the first place). Is this the extent of your reasoning?

 

[Kelzie]

Your incessant rambling and circular logic makes me a bit dizzy. The fact of the matter is, if people don't like the thread they can avoid entering it. The real truth of the matter is that you didn't like the subject and thus used your excessive power as a so-called moderator to assure that no one would have the opportunity to comment on it.

Moderator's Warning:

Here's the deal The_Real_ElRoi. You have made a huge broo-ha-ha over something that is explicitely stated in our rules. You MAY NOT post chapters from books here. Every single member of the mod team backs up Simon on this and for good reason. vauge doesn't feel like being sued for copy right enfringement. But okay. If you have an issue with Simon's warning, you are free to PM him for clarification. What you are not free to do is "...create / continue an argument after a final decision has been made by the staff, and posts that demonstrate carelessness towards staff requests." That earns you an Insubordination Warning. Cease and desist or you will get another one.