Censorship, misinformation, and Democracy

[Bullseye]

I've tried to make this point several times. Wish I'd been able to say it this well:

American society is in the midst of a vigorous meta-debate concerning censorship, free speech, and democracy. This debate is, at times, difficult to follow because of the apparent contradictions and double-speak that it produces. It may be useful to make some distinctions that are inherent in this discourse.

The first such distinction is in what different parties mean by the term "democracy." There is a progressive faction that insists that, for example, social media suppression of certain views is essential to "our democracy." Free speech is therefore a potential threat to democracy, a counter-intuitive claim.

 

[tacomancer]

Yup, different groups have different definitions for things and are talking past each other.

 

[Chomsky]

I've tried to make this point several times. Wish I'd been able to say it this well:

Too bad the author offered a great general statement, then went partisan.

 

[Bullseye]

Too bad the author offered a great general statement, then went partisan.

Too bad the split IS partisan. Particularly his discussing of the meaning of "democracy". Conservatives rarely claim free speech must be curtailed to "protect democracy" but that seems to be an article of faith on the left. The prime example is social media with the MSM Or the DPM (Democratic Propaganda Ministry). Top reporters, Lester Holt, for instance, are on record saying they see no need for balanced coverage.
I posted this thread because it resonates with what I see on this forum.
Have you noticed the eruption on the LW media about Musk buying out Twitter. Ironic that nobody bitched when Bezos bought Wa Poo. eh?

 

[tacomancer]

Too bad the split IS partisan. Particularly his discussing of the meaning of "democracy". Conservatives rarely claim free speech must be curtailed to "protect democracy" but that seems to be an article of faith on the left. The prime example is social media with the MSM Or the DPM (Democratic Propaganda Ministry). Top reporters, Lester Holt, for instance, are on record saying they see no need for balanced coverage.
I posted this thread because it resonates with what I see on this forum.
Have you noticed the eruption on the LW media about Musk buying out Twitter. Ironic that nobody bitched when Bezos bought Wa Poo. eh?

Please show where democrats are going against the first amendment. What legislation or regulation is being proposed?

 

[Lloyd Christmas]

Too bad the author offered a great general statement, then went partisan.

And its bullshit. The left has the facts, the right has the lies. THis is proven in every single thread where all you can get is a bunch of bullshit one liners without any facts, or completely garbage links, while liberals cite legit institutional agencies with proven journalistic integrity and scientific studies. I'm so sick of the both sides crap. It's clear both sides are not equivalent, one has facts, logic and reasoning, the other complete lies. No matter how much they project themselves onto liberals.

and people need to cut the both sides garbage, its not true.

 

[Schism]

Yup, different groups have different definitions for things and are talking past each other.

You're good at that.

 

[Schism]

And its bullshit. The left has the facts, the right has the lies. THis is proven in every single thread where all you can get is a bunch of bullshit one liners without any facts, or completely garbage links, while liberals cite legit institutional agencies with proven journalistic integrity and scientific studies. I'm so sick of the both sides crap. It's clear both sides are not equivalent, one has facts, logic and reasoning, the other complete lies. No matter how much they project themselves onto liberals.

Your team literally created the Steele Dossier and 'Trump Is a Russian Agent' hoax.

 

[Helix]

There is no constutional right to spam horseshit on a website. If one wants to spam horseshit on a website, it's quite easy to find one which caters to horseshit spam or to make one yourself.

 

[Chomsky]

Too bad the split IS partisan. Particularly his discussing of the meaning of "democracy". Conservatives rarely claim free speech must be curtailed to "protect democracy" but that seems to be an article of faith on the left.

I don't see it.

But I do see republicans banning books from schoolkids.

The prime example is social media with the MSM Or the DPM (Democratic Propaganda Ministry). Top reporters, Lester Holt, for instance, are on record saying they see no need for balanced coverage.

That I'm not familiar with, bit I only need to look at OANN/Newsmax, or any other of the Trump media, to know they're not presenting a fair story.

I posted this thread because it resonates with what I see on this forum.

You don't see RW propaganda, like the Big Lie?

Have you noticed the eruption on the LW media about Musk buying out Twitter. Ironic that nobody bitched when Bezos bought Wa Poo. eh?

I think you're focused on the Left, while ignoring the Right. Just like the author of your OP article.

 

[tacomancer]

You're good at that.

I call it not accepting peoples bullshit

 

[MaryP]

There is no constutional right to spam horseshit on a website. If one wants to spam horseshit on a website, it's quite easy to find one which caters to horseshit spam or to make one yourself.

 

[Chomsky]

And its bullshit. The left has the facts, the right has the lies. THis is proven in every single thread where all you can get is a bunch of bullshit one liners without any facts, or completely garbage links, while liberals cite legit institutional agencies with proven journalistic integrity and scientific studies. I'm so sick of the both sides crap. It's clear both sides are not equivalent, one has facts, logic and reasoning, the other complete lies. No matter how much they project themselves onto liberals.

and people need to cut the both sides garbage, its not true.

Yes, in general terms perhaps.

But as the the OP's point in terms of censorship & speech, the Left is itself also guilty, with things like excessive PC and Safe Places.

The proceeding of course is not the Big Lie, but it is constraining speech.

 

[Mr Person]

The only way "free speech" as a term makes sense is in relation to the 1st Amd. That is, as an actual right supported by principles. Invoking the constitution is the exact reason they go out of their way to say "free speech" rather than "speech". They want to invoke the constitution's gravitas, and they do it in a way that leaves the kind of implausible deniability that fellow Trumpists will embrace anyway. It's merely a way of trying to sound like they're saying something important.

But what do they mean by it? If they said only "speech", they'd be honestly admitting what they're really saying, which is that they want to obtain the right to force private parties to host and repeat whatever speech regardless of any of the entity's rules. This you will recognize is absurd. It's really just a way of copying Dear Leader and demanding immunity from rules.

 

[Bullseye]

And its bullshit. The left has the facts, the right has the lies. THis is proven in every single thread where all you can get is a bunch of bullshit one liners without any facts, or completely garbage links, while liberals cite legit institutional agencies with proven journalistic integrity and scientific studies. I'm so sick of the both sides crap. It's clear both sides are not equivalent, one has facts, logic and reasoning, the other complete lies. No matter how much they project themselves onto liberals.

and people need to cut the both sides garbage, its not true.

Wonderful illustration of the the article's theme. Well done.

 

[watsup]

I've tried to make this point several times. Wish I'd been able to say it this well:

Lies and right wing bias. *YAWN*

 

[Bullseye]

There is no constutional right to spam horseshit on a website. If one wants to spam horseshit on a website, it's quite easy to find one which caters to horseshit spam or to make one yourself.

Horseshit isn't the issue; It's factual information that goes against the controlling party's ideology.

 

[Bullseye]

Lies and right wing bias. *YAWN*

Against your form of "democracy", eh?

 

[Bullseye]

I don't see it.

But I do see republicans banning books from schoolkids.

From a specific age and grade level. IMHO little johnie and Jane should learn how to read, and do math before they learn about blow jobs and anal sex. Not information 7 year olds need.

That I'm not familiar with, bit I only need to look at OANN/Newsmax, or any other of the Trump media, to know they're not presenting a fair story.

I'm presenting "the other side of the story" opposed to the MSM/DPM story. That's the point.

You don't see RW propaganda, like the Big Lie?

The term "Big Lie" is LW propaganda. Zuckerberg's $400 million was a lie; nor were the mysterious vote count changes in the middle of the night. Nor dozens of other suspicious activities. But a Democratic enamored media isn't going to stir the shit when the got exactly what the wanted.

I think you're focused on the Left, while ignoring the Right. Just like the author of your OP article.

Going for the Ad Hominem defense, eh?

 

[tacomancer]

A lot of the misinformation that ends up having to be called out is because it does people harm.

People have seriously messed themselves up taking animal medicine or fish tank supplies for example.

 

[Helix]

Horseshit isn't the issue; It's factual information that goes against the controlling party's ideology.

Then stop wasting your time on FB and Twitter and get in line for an Untruth account. If they don't have horseshit yet, they will someday. Also, there are mutiple far right wing echo chambers out there.

 

[watsup]

Against your form of "democracy", eh?

Against the lies contained in the article that you posted.

 

[Gateman_Wen]

I've tried to make this point several times. Wish I'd been able to say it this well:

There is a progressive faction that insists that, for example, social media suppression of certain views is essential to "our democracy." Free speech is therefore a potential threat to democracy, a counter-intuitive claim.

That's a straight up lie.

 

[Bullseye]

That's a straight up lie.

Are you say conservative posters have not been blocked or deplatformed for saying the wrong things? Care to explain the massive panty-knot amongst the loony left because of the possibility of Musk buying Twitter?

 

[Bullseye]

Against the lies contained in the article that you posted.

Not lies just because it twists your panties.