Cellphones

[RJApple]

I do believe some social skills are being lost but it probably is not all because of the cell phones. We are losing a lot of the traditions of previous generations--sitting around the table at meals and sharing the events of the day, teaching table manners, teaching how to set a proper table even. We aren't teaching the basics of old fashioned etiquette--the written thank you note, how to compose a proper letter, or other basic good manners. Few people even use snail mail any more and hand writing is fast disappearing--they are suggesting that cursive writing should no longer be taught. The ability to just sit and have a conversation with another person seems to be suffering and young people seem to be uncomfortable in social settings more than they used to be. Or maybe it just seems that way.

Certainly the cell phone 'short hand' people who text a lot use is eroding spelling and grammar skills. And people who stare at their phones for hours at a time are missing an awful lot of what is going on about them and in the world.

But I suppose every generation disapproves of the changes in the next, but I hate to lose many of the values that made our American culture unique and pretty great.

This is perhaps a bit off-topic, but I agree wholeheartedly, especially with the point about hand writing. I think many people don't understand the virtue writing things, such as lecture-notes and rough-drafts for papers, by hand. It really helps with recalling information to write down notes and rough-drafts by hand. In fact, if I recall correctly, there was a study done not-to-long ago on a college class; some students took down notes by hand, others used computers, and the students who had handwritten notes consistently did better on their exams than those who had taken notes with a computer.

 

[radcen]

Are cell phones going to ruin social skills? I am a high school teacher so I understand the problem. But it is getting worse and worse. Went to a park with my kids. Groups of teenagers walking around. Great. In a park. Good for them. Problem. 7 kids in one. All on cell phones the whole time. 4 in another. All on phones not talking to each other as they walk. Walk past tea house. 13 of 16 adults on phones. Many ignoring kids trying to get their attention. What the **** is wrong with people?

I think it's changing social skills, some for the better, some not.

 

[Bodi]

Several years ago we went to dinner at Texas Roadhouse and this one family stuck out at me. The parents were roughly mid-30s. Two kids, boy approx 10 and girl, approx 12. All were well-dressed. All four had their faces buried in a book the entire time. Not a phone, books. All of them. Intently.

In the waiting area they had their faces buried in a book. At their table they had their faces buried in a book. When eating they were still reading. Except to order I don't think they spoke a dozen words to each other.

Is that any better?

Nope. Although that is my daughter. She is a read-a-holic. She averages about 400 pages a day. She read three 500+page books in three days a few days ago. I have to give her reading time outs and force her to go play. When she does she loves it but i still have to force her. We have reading rules too. Have to eat breakfast and get dressed first are big ones.

 

[justabubba]

Not interacting with people is positive for our youth?

my speculation is that much of the time spent on the smart phones is interacting with others. at least that's what happens with me and i'm an old fart

Alright then. They interrupt more. Dont wait their turn.

please share with us how the use of smart phones caused this increased degree of impatience
because in my experience, young people (like older people) have had a inclination towards impatience. in fact, i know of no one who likes waiting

Cant spell (this is actually a huge issue now).

i will concede this point tho i would term it 'spell worse than before' since spelling errors have been chronic since i have been around during my almost 64 years
but then we have auto-correct to 'help' us out (recognizing it is often both unwelcome and unhelpful)
this sounds like the objections raised when electronic calculators first became widespread: the kids won't have to learn arithmetic. the ones that didn't, wouldn't have anyway. instead of doing the arithmetic drills the kids can actually learn math concepts instead

Pavlovian obsession with them which is unhealthy.

you are correct, when that ping chimes we respond. but didn't we already do that with regular phones, door bell, elevator chimes, etc. i don't view this fascination with unhealthiness. we are linked together in ways we could never have imagined in my youth. in my wife's high poverty school, one of the few items that can be given as a prize for accomplishment or withheld for inappropriate behavior is access to computer devices. that these kids, few of whom have access to computers in their homes, are attracted to these devices and achieve the knowledge needed to operate them, causes them to be a positive influence on society
as you can see, we are far from agreement. however, in recognition of the pavlovian reference, here is a funny photo ... available only because of my ready access to computing devices

 

[Bodi]

This is perhaps a bit off-topic, but I agree wholeheartedly, especially with the point about hand writing. I think many people don't understand the virtue writing things, such as lecture-notes and rough-drafts for papers, by hand. It really helps with recalling information to write down notes and rough-drafts by hand. In fact, if I recall correctly, there was a study done not-to-long ago on a college class; some students took down notes by hand, others used computers, and the students who had handwritten notes consistently did better on their exams than those who had taken notes with a computer.

The more senses one incorporates the better the learning. Reading gets something like 50%. Reading and writing 65%. Reading, writing and speaking (which then incorporates hearing) 90%. My numbers are probably off but you get the idea.

 

[radcen]

Nope. Although that is my daughter. She is a read-a-holic. She averages about 400 pages a day. She read three 500+page books in three days a few days ago. I have to give her reading time outs and force her to go play. When she does she loves it but i still have to force her. We have reading rules too. Have to eat breakfast and get dressed first are big ones.

I'm all for reading. The more the better. But not to the exclusion of all else.

What struck me about this family was not only that they were all doing it, but that they went out to dinner, what most would consider a social event, and still did it. They could have stayed home and saved a bunch of money. The food might not have been as good, but I wonder if it was really that important to them.

I also wondered if the parents were super-strict: "You will read and grow up to be a super-genius, dammit!"

 

[Bodi]

I'm all for reading. The more the better. But not to the exclusion of all else.

What struck me about this family was not only that they were all doing it, but that they went out to dinner, what most would consider a social event, and still did it. They could have stayed home and saved a bunch of money. The food might not have been as good, but I wonder if it was really that important to them.

I also wondered if the parents were super-strict: "You will read and grow up to be a super-genius, dammit!"

That is strange going to dinner and doing that. I get comments about my girls when we quietly sit and read at the doctors. Receptionist is shocked. Most kids on phone or playing with toys. I wonder what those parents were like when their kids were little. Did they read to them or give them a book to look at and read their own.

 

[justabubba]

This is perhaps a bit off-topic, but I agree wholeheartedly, especially with the point about hand writing. I think many people don't understand the virtue writing things, such as lecture-notes and rough-drafts for papers, by hand. It really helps with recalling information to write down notes and rough-drafts by hand. In fact, if I recall correctly, there was a study done not-to-long ago on a college class; some students took down notes by hand, others used computers, and the students who had handwritten notes consistently did better on their exams than those who had taken notes with a computer.

[emphasis added by bubba]
except for the 'rough drafts' in handwriting comment i agree
the computer is a boon to writing skills
before, one either wrote and re-wrote by hand or typed and re-typed, to get the text correctly prepared. however, the hassle of having to re-write the final version, or white-out/correct the typed final submission, often caused the author to submit a less than optimal piece of written/typed work
now, being able to quickly delete and re-type a correction, along with auto-correct and the ability to cut/paste, facilitates multiple drafts being completed before the final version is submitted. and that causes computers to be found a G_d send for some of us

 

[AlbqOwl]

This is perhaps a bit off-topic, but I agree wholeheartedly, especially with the point about hand writing. I think many people don't understand the virtue writing things, such as lecture-notes and rough-drafts for papers, by hand. It really helps with recalling information to write down notes and rough-drafts by hand. In fact, if I recall correctly, there was a study done not-to-long ago on a college class; some students took down notes by hand, others used computers, and the students who had handwritten notes consistently did better on their exams than those who had taken notes with a computer.

I can believe that. I take notes both ways and definitely the hand written method results in greater recall because you have to really focus on what you're hand writing--for a competent typist, computer notes are almost automatic and you can type one thing while thinking about something else. (Some of the posts on message boards prove it. )

 

[nota bene]

Word-processing and writing by hand use different parts of the brain, which is one of the arguments for continuing to teach cursive handwriting (so those parts of the brain continue to be employed).

Cell phones are contributing to the coarsening of society and also, I think, to individual isolation. Walk down a hallway in any university before class, and you'll see a hundred students hunched over and diddling with their devices rather than interacting with each other. It's very sad. So is seeing a couple at dinner who have no interest in conversing with each other and who are playing on their phones.

 

[nota bene]

BrewerBob beat me to it. Communication is changing. After the telephone became popular, people lamented that new generations weren't going to be good at letter writing or talking in person, but now hardly anybody makes such comments.

That's because they're dead.

Every generation adjusts to new technology and older generations get upset that the type of communication they're used to is being pushed to the back. Same ****, different century.

That's a silly overgeneralization. Several years ago a very large newspaper published a special magazine insert profiling those who'd lived to be 100 and what they thought were the greatest invention of their lifetimes. The automobile was ranked first and the telephone second.

 

[Captain Adverse]

After the telephone became popular, people lamented that new generations weren't going to be good at letter writing or talking in person, but now hardly anybody makes such comments.

That's because they're dead.

:funny

 

[ThePlayDrive]

That's because they're dead.

Hahaha

That's a silly overgeneralization. Several years ago a very large newspaper published a special magazine insert profiling those who'd lived to be 100 and what they thought were the greatest invention of their lifetimes. The automobile was ranked first and the telephone second.

Only on DP would someone take my comment so literally.

 

[MaggieD]

Are cell phones going to ruin social skills? I am a high school teacher so I understand the problem. But it is getting worse and worse. Went to a park with my kids. Groups of teenagers walking around. Great. In a park. Good for them. Problem. 7 kids in one. All on cell phones the whole time. 4 in another. All on phones not talking to each other as they walk. Walk past tea house. 13 of 16 adults on phones. Many ignoring kids trying to get their attention. What the **** is wrong with people?

Sadder than the kids are the young parents. I see them walking with their kids going to the park with their noses in their phones. Saw one at a resort last week sitting at a table with her little girl. Mom was too busy texting to talk to her. What a sad crew.

Reminds me of Cat's in the Cradle.

 

[Bodi]

Sadder than the kids are the young parents. I see them walking with their kids going to the park with their noses in their phones. Saw one at a resort last week sitting at a table with her little girl. Mom was too busy texting to talk to her. What a sad crew.

Reminds me of Cat's in the Cradle.

I am one of those dads that pkays at the playground with my kids. Climb jungle gym. Play tag on the climbing structures. Slide with my girls... well when the were young at least.

Long time ago my daughter is four or so and wants to slide. These 6 or 7 year olds are sitting on slide talking and not letting little kids slide. I go ovrr and nicely but firmly tell them to move so little kids can slide. One kid goes and tells his mom who has been sitting and texting for a half hour or whatever. She comes over and has a go at me about telling her son what to do. To make a long story short i said tgat if she didnt want others to parent her children on manners she should do it herself instead of ignoring her son and texting and letting him bully other little kids in order to get attention. She flipped. I told her she was setting another bad example for her son and I told my daughter tbat adults need to take responsibility for themselves. Other parents were watching and the lady left angry.


I noticed one parent on a phone who put it away... some didnt though.

 

[MaggieD]

I am one of those dads that pkays at the playground with my kids. Climb jungle gym. Play tag on the climbing structures. Slide with my girls... well when the were young at least.

Long time ago my daughter is four or so and wants to slide. These 6 or 7 year olds are sitting on slide talking and not letting little kids slide. I go ovrr and nicely but firmly tell them to move so little kids can slide. One kid goes and tells his mom who has been sitting and texting for a half hour or whatever. She comes over and has a go at me about telling her son what to do. To make a long story short i said tgat if she didnt want others to parent her children on manners she should do it herself instead of ignoring her son and texting and letting him bully other little kids in order to get attention. She flipped. I told her she was setting another bad example for her son and I told my daughter tbat adults need to take responsibility for themselves. Other parents were watching and the lady left angry.


I noticed one parent on a phone who put it away... some didnt though.

Good for you. That's one of those proud dad moments, I think.

 

[Patrickt]

No, it is just a different type of communication.

Anti-social communications. But, forums have joined in with "friends" on forums.

I got a phone relatively recently. No Facebook, no Twitter, no Snapchat or whatever it is.

It's rather like running out of the house and making friends in a new neighborhood has been replaced with "play dates". As I recall life as a child nothing would have been worse than adult supervision of our playing.

 

[Dragonfly]

Sadder than the kids are the young parents. I see them walking with their kids going to the park with their noses in their phones. Saw one at a resort last week sitting at a table with her little girl. Mom was too busy texting to talk to her. What a sad crew.

Reminds me of Cat's in the Cradle.

Hell, my kids are in their 20's now, but I still distinctly remember volunteering to help out on Field Days at their schools.
There was always a few parents who could not go an hour without answering a phone call. Some would just walk away from the activity they were supposed to be monitoring and have a full-blown conversation for well over 5 minutes.

I never understood why in hell's bells they couldn't leave their damn-ass phones in the car for few hours while their kids had field day.

And that was 15+ years ago.

Flip side of that, when my oldest child was rather young, she was sliding down a large playground sliding board. Her sneaker caught on the side and stopped her leg causing her to tumble off the side of the sliding board. She landed head first on the ground and passed out. We freaked the F out thinking she'd broken her neck. A parent nearby had a cell phone and called 911 immediately and got us an ambulance in minutes. At that time we didn't have cell phones, and we had biked to the playground. getting to a pay-phone to call 911 would have been horrifically slow. That parent with a cell phone was HUGE for us. Thankfully our child was fine.

Cell phones, like any tool, are dependent on how they're used as to how "good" or "bad" they are.

 

[radcen]

Hell, my kids are in their 20's now, but I still distinctly remember volunteering to help out on Field Days at their schools.
There was always a few parents who could not go an hour without answering a phone call. Some would just walk away from the activity they were supposed to be monitoring and have a full-blown conversation for well over 5 minutes.

I never understood why in hell's bells they couldn't leave their damn-ass phones in the car for few hours while their kids had field day.

And that was 15+ years ago.

Flip side of that, when my oldest child was rather young, she was sliding down a large playground sliding board. Her sneaker caught on the side and stopped her leg causing her to tumble off the side of the sliding board. She landed head first on the ground and passed out. We freaked the F out thinking she'd broken her neck. A parent nearby had a cell phone and called 911 immediately and got us an ambulance in minutes. At that time we didn't have cell phones, and we had biked to the playground. getting to a pay-phone to call 911 would have been horrifically slow. That parent with a cell phone was HUGE for us. Thankfully our child was fine.

Cell phones, like any tool, are dependent on how they're used as to how "good" or "bad" they are.

Excellent post. And great points for both sides.

 

[Bodi]

That's because they're dead.



That's a silly overgeneralization. Several years ago a very large newspaper published a special magazine insert profiling those who'd lived to be 100 and what they thought were the greatest invention of their lifetimes. The automobile was ranked first and the telephone second.

There was a poll of people who lived to 102 and the phone didnt even make the top 25.

Sliced bread beat out the phone, in fact.

 

[justabubba]

There was a poll of people who lived to 102 and the phone didnt even make the top 25.

Sliced bread beat out the phone, in fact.

cite? that sounds like an interesting read

 

[Bodi]

cite? that sounds like an interesting read

I cant post you a link to my imagination...

 

[justabubba]

I cant post you a link to my imagination...

then a link to a stripper poll [sic] should suffice

 

[Patrickt]

When I was young we moved frequently. When we got to a new neighborhood I'd be shooed out and told to meet the kids. You did and you learned valuable social skills. You learned which kids were bullies and how to deal with them, which were sneaky twits, and which were going to be friends.

Now, I had to ask my sister what a play date was. Oh, that's where the parents on one kid gets together with the parents of another, or other, kids and they arrange a time to play...under supervision. When I was a kid that would have been our version of hell.

Now we are hiring people who have never learned to socialize. Cell phones give the illusion of being social. A woman working for me said she was going to sue us for having a hostile work environment if we didn't make Helen invite her to a party Helen was having. "It's Helen's party. It has nothing to do with work." "Well, she's inviting some of the others." "Right. She inviting her friends. Are you a friend of hers?" "No, but that doesn't matter." "Get out of my office."

We have people competing for the nomination to run fro president who sound like small children. "Well, he started it." "Did not." "Did so." "Well, you can't vote for her. She's ugly." "I always win. I do." "I'm smarter than everyone."

I would wonder where some of the people grew up except it's obvious they never did.

No. People aren't lazy because we have cars. We have cars because we're lazy. Cell phones to cause our social skills to atrophy but our atrophied social skills make us dependent on cell phones. And people don't spend an ungodly number of hours sitting in front of a television because it's some magic box that has hypnotized them but rather because they're too stupid to pick up a book or get off the couch and do something.

Oh, that's another thing some never learned as children. It's not my fault it's the fault of the cell phone or the television or the migrant laborer or them.

 

[Bodi]

then a link to a stripper poll [sic] should suffice

Strippers-r-us