• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Cavs owner defends stance on LeBron

ludahai

Defender of the Faith
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
10,320
Reaction score
2,115
Location
Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
link
Note: yes, it links to espn.com, but it is an AP article


"He speaks as an owner of LeBron and not the owner of the Cleveland Cavaliers," Jackson said in a release from his Chicago-based civil-rights group. "His feelings of betrayal personify a slave master mentality. He sees LeBron as a runaway slave. This is an owner employee relationship -- between business partners -- and LeBron honored his contract."

The race-monger-extraordinare is at it again. LeBron James is the most selfish star athlete in a very long time -- and that is saying a lot. James IS a selfish player, he is NOT a team player and he did give up on his team. And the way he made a circus of his move to Miami was just more proof of how it was all about him and nothing about his team

LeBron James is pathetic and Jesse Jackson once again showed how pathetic he was with these comments. The two make good bedfellows...
 

Hatuey

Rule of Two
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Messages
55,189
Reaction score
22,499
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
LeBron James is pathetic and Jesse Jackson once again showed how pathetic he was with these comments. The two make good bedfellows...

LeBron are you listening? Some asian guy from New Hampshire called you pathetic. Even though all you've done is taken full advantage of the very market he advocates for. Never you mind that your talent speaks for itself and you like the pathetic and selfish athlete you are dragged behind you a ****ty team in Cleveland. Don't forget that the Cavs organization and its executives gladly pimped out your image and made billions off you for years. Forget about being the only superstar in a team made up of supporting cast members that didn't deliver for nearly a decade. How selfish of you LeBron! But don't worry LeBron! Now that you're gone, they're finally going to work so that they get that Championship ring, something they weren't in that much of a hurry to do when you were around to be milked like a cow.

I know the cool thing right now is to criticize LeBron for sticking it to a few guys who made a few hundred million off his back but I don't think he really cares Luda.

a8ip99l3ff6u6fl.jpg
 
Last edited:

Lord Tammerlain

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 25, 2010
Messages
20,634
Reaction score
8,993
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
let's remember, LeBron has won NOTHING!!!


So!

Plenty of NBA teams wanted to pay him big bucks to play for them, he choose the one he wanted to play for.

If you are going to complain about it, complain about the money the NBA teams were willing to pay
 

Hatuey

Rule of Two
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Messages
55,189
Reaction score
22,499
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
let's remember, LeBron has won NOTHING!!!

* 2× NBA Most Valuable Player: 2009, 2010
* NBA Rookie of the Year: 2004
* NBA Scoring Champion: 2008
* 2× NBA All-Star Game MVP: 2006, 2008
* 6× NBA All-Star: 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010
* 6× All-NBA:
o First Team: 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010
o Second Team: 2005, 2007
* 2× NBA All-Defensive:
o First Team: 2009, 2010
* NBA All-Rookie First Team: 2004
* Bronze medal with Team USA, 2004 Summer Olympic Games
* Bronze medal with Team USA, 2006 FIBA World Championship
* Gold medal with Team USA, 2007 FIBA Americas Championship
* Gold medal with Team USA, 2008 Summer Olympic Games

Facts begs to differ.
 

ludahai

Defender of the Faith
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
10,320
Reaction score
2,115
Location
Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
So!

Plenty of NBA teams wanted to pay him big bucks to play for them, he choose the one he wanted to play for.

If you are going to complain about it, complain about the money the NBA teams were willing to pay

I am not complaining about the money, I am complaining about the comments by race-monger Jesse Jackson as well as the method by which James went about this entire charade, complaints that have been many by many in the basketball and general sports community...
 

ludahai

Defender of the Faith
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
10,320
Reaction score
2,115
Location
Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
* 2× NBA Most Valuable Player: 2009, 2010
* NBA Rookie of the Year: 2004
* NBA Scoring Champion: 2008
* 2× NBA All-Star Game MVP: 2006, 2008
* 6× NBA All-Star: 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010
* 6× All-NBA:
o First Team: 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010
o Second Team: 2005, 2007
* 2× NBA All-Defensive:
o First Team: 2009, 2010
* NBA All-Rookie First Team: 2004
* Bronze medal with Team USA, 2004 Summer Olympic Games
* Bronze medal with Team USA, 2006 FIBA World Championship
* Gold medal with Team USA, 2007 FIBA Americas Championship
* Gold medal with Team USA, 2008 Summer Olympic Games

Facts begs to differ.

and ZERO NBA championships
 

Lord Tammerlain

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 25, 2010
Messages
20,634
Reaction score
8,993
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I am not complaining about the money, I am complaining about the comments by race-monger Jesse Jackson as well as the method by which James went about this entire charade, complaints that have been many by many in the basketball and general sports community...

Did he make a show of it most definately, but that was his right, as it was his right to choose to play for a different team. The Cav's owner made alot of money because of Lebron, and the owner did not do much to help create a team for Lebron to win with

Just who ate it up though, the NBA watching public

Also the Cav's owners comments were rather in poor taste, certainly not at the level of Jesse Jackson's feelings
 

Hatuey

Rule of Two
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Messages
55,189
Reaction score
22,499
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate

mike2810

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
25,145
Reaction score
9,334
Location
arizona
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Jackson is a racist. I put no weight into what he says.

LeBron is a very good player. Would the NBA survive without him? Yep. Anyone can be replaced.
 

ludahai

Defender of the Faith
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
10,320
Reaction score
2,115
Location
Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
He can't win them on his own. That's why he left Cleveland. We're going in circles.

They built the team around him, and when they were getting schooled by players in green who play together as a TEAM, LeBron gave up on his... i am SOOOOO glad LeBron is not going to Boston, that's for sure... he is poison with his poor attitude and his focus on 'me me me me'
 

Hatuey

Rule of Two
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Messages
55,189
Reaction score
22,499
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
They built the team around him,

This is false. They built a team made up of a single money drawing superstar and 2nd rate supporting cast.

and when they were getting schooled by players in green who play together as a TEAM,

You mean a team with more than one reasonably talented player? Something Cleveland is clearly not?

LeBron gave up on his... i am SOOOOO glad LeBron is not going to Boston, that's for sure... he is poison with his poor attitude and his focus on 'me me me me'

This is why New Hampshire doesn't have a basketball team.
 

ludahai

Defender of the Faith
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
10,320
Reaction score
2,115
Location
Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
This is false. They built a team made up of a single money drawing superstar and 2nd rate supporting cast.

You mean a team with more than one reasonably talented player? Something Cleveland is clearly not?

None of whom focus on themselves, but rather play TOGETHER. Actually, Cleveland DID have some pretty decent players on the team. Unlike the Celtics, LeBron did not do anything to make them better. Look at how Rajon and others on the supporting cast of the Celtics have IMPROVED due to their association with TEAM players...


This is why New Hampshire doesn't have a basketball team.

You mean other than the fact that it is a small state without a large urban center?!?!? You like to make comments that have nothing to do with the topic at hand, but then again, you have repeatedly shown that you not only need geography lessons, but you don't even know what race I am... (not that race is all that important to me -- though it obviously is to YOU)
 

soccerboy22

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 20, 2010
Messages
10,721
Reaction score
4,120
Location
A warm place
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
None of whom focus on themselves, but rather play TOGETHER. Actually, Cleveland DID have some pretty decent players on the team. Unlike the Celtics, LeBron did not do anything to make them better. Look at how Rajon and others on the supporting cast of the Celtics have IMPROVED due to their association with TEAM players...

LeBron's supporting cast was very on off. Mo Williams was only other player that really did anything much and he was very hot/cold. I think the move for him was a good one, Cav's GM went after him during the playoffs for not playing at his fullest during the Celtics series. How much of this was because of his injury is unknown. And Rondo didn't only get better because of players like Allen, Pierce, and KG, but also because he would take those difficult shots at least 100 times a day. I do think with LeBron's move he won't be seen as great as a Jordan because Jordan won with similar team that LeBron had in the Cavs.

That said as a diehard Celtics fan I am really looking forward to this Miami team. If they can gel and get a decent team together they should be really fun to watch.
 

Zyphlin

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
51,312
Reaction score
35,173
Location
NoMoAuchie
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
What was funny was that when said supporting cast helped him get to 60+ wins and go into the playoffs prior to losing to Boston I seemed to remember many in the media saying how cleveland may be the deepest and most talented team in the league.

Then when they got bounced after LeBron had some abysmal games it became Lebron had no one around him.

MJ definitely had his wingman in Pippen. However Pippen came to MJ's team, MJ's town, and assisted MJ and shown himself never to get to the top without him despite still playing in his prime for portions of it.

LeBron is going to WADE'S team, in WADE's town, where Wade already has won a championship as the main star and has shown himself to be able to get to the top. Along with that he's not just with Wade but with another arguable top 10 player in the league.

Not to mention part of the mystique that is Michael is the clutchness, the winning edge, and that's going to be going to Wade in Miami not Lebron.

That said, while HOW he decided it, HOW he treated Cleveland in deciding it, HOW he announced it, etc was horrible his decision was a good one if winning is more important to him then being "the best ever". If he wins with this team he will not be in the Michael realm because he has a top 5 player in the league and a top 10 to 15 player in the league on the team with him, and he's not even the "Face" of that team. The "Face" is a man who for every ring they win will have more than LeBron. In Miami LeBron can assure himself a spot amongst "The greats", but its not going to be a spot amongst "The greatest"
 

soccerboy22

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 20, 2010
Messages
10,721
Reaction score
4,120
Location
A warm place
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
What was funny was that when said supporting cast helped him get to 60+ wins and go into the playoffs prior to losing to Boston I seemed to remember many in the media saying how cleveland may be the deepest and most talented team in the league.

Then when they got bounced after LeBron had some abysmal games it became Lebron had no one around him.

I found that funny too. The Cavs actually got deeper when Shaq got healthy, it just seemed like the didn't play well if LeBron didn't play well. That is why I always laughed at them being the deepest team in the NBA. In my mind the team that was the deepest was either Magic or LA.

MJ definitely had his wingman in Pippen. However Pippen came to MJ's team, MJ's town, and assisted MJ and shown himself never to get to the top without him despite still playing in his prime for portions of it.

LeBron is going to WADE'S team, in WADE's town, where Wade already has won a championship as the main star and has shown himself to be able to get to the top. Along with that he's not just with Wade but with another arguable top 10 player in the league.

Not to mention part of the mystique that is Michael is the clutchness, the winning edge, and that's going to be going to Wade in Miami not Lebron.

I think LeBron is going to have a hard time with this at first. As well as D. Wade. Both are use to being the main center of attention and now they won't be. Miami has a new Big Three and the success of that team will depend on how well D. Wade, Bosh, and The King can gel.

That said, while HOW he decided it, HOW he treated Cleveland in deciding it, HOW he announced it, etc was horrible his decision was a good one if winning is more important to him then being "the best ever". If he wins with this team he will not be in the Michael realm because he has a top 5 player in the league and a top 10 to 15 player in the league on the team with him, and he's not even the "Face" of that team. The "Face" is a man who for every ring they win will have more than LeBron. In Miami LeBron can assure himself a spot amongst "The greats", but its not going to be a spot amongst "The greatest"

Yeah it was pretty classless how that all went down. The blame is shared though between LeBron for letting it go down that way and ESPN giving him an hour show about it. I mean really he didn't need an hour for that. I don't think anyone will take the greatest title from Jordan. Kobe has a chance, but the Lakers have such a good team that I don't see him taking it from Jordan. Now if the Lakers were more like Jordan's Bulls then I would think Kobe would take the title from him. No doubt in my mind though that Kobe will end up in the top 5, where LeBron will now end up in the top 10.
 

ludahai

Defender of the Faith
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
10,320
Reaction score
2,115
Location
Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
That said as a diehard Celtics fan I am really looking forward to this Miami team. If they can gel and get a decent team together they should be really fun to watch.

Funny you said that, because I think I finally have a team that if they happened to play the Fakers in the final, I might actually root for the boys from La La land, and I NEVER thought I would ever say that...
 

donsutherland1

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
11,822
Reaction score
10,221
Location
New York
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
IMO, LeBron James' television spectacle was in bad taste, though like any other player his choice to take advantage of free agency to join another team should not be questioned. He is not the first star to switch teams. He most certainly won't be the last.

Whether or not the nucleus of players on Miami will lead to championships remains to be seen. Teamwork is crucial. Teams that come together and play with synergy can beat those that are little more than collections of stars. So, time will tell. My guess is that given Wade's, Bosh's, and James' ability to play together during the Olympics, the nucleus should gel and Miami should be a contender.

The Cavaliers' owner's rant was unprofessional, childish, and highly immature. During the weeks leading up to LeBron James' announcement, did he sign any strong players who could have made it more enticing for James to remain in Cleveland? No.

Jesse Jackson's characterization of the Cavs' owner's immature remarks is far off base.
 

Zyphlin

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
51,312
Reaction score
35,173
Location
NoMoAuchie
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Yeah it was pretty classless how that all went down. The blame is shared though between LeBron for letting it go down that way and ESPN giving him an hour show about it. I mean really he didn't need an hour for that. I don't think anyone will take the greatest title from Jordan. Kobe has a chance, but the Lakers have such a good team that I don't see him taking it from Jordan. Now if the Lakers were more like Jordan's Bulls then I would think Kobe would take the title from him. No doubt in my mind though that Kobe will end up in the top 5, where LeBron will now end up in the top 10.

Honestly, Jordan's Bulls weren't bad. He had Pippen in both iterations of it. Toni Kukoč was an excellent 6th man that was there for a good bit. Grant in the first 3 and Rodman in the second 3 were both above average to good players as well. Both teams had one of the better 3 point specialists in the league (Paxton and Kerr). Both managed to have servicable big men in the middle. Both had a compotent role playing point (Armstrong and Harper). They weren't "bad" teams, or average teams, they were what you generally find with championship teams. One or two Stars, one to two good secondary/6th man type players, and a bunch of good roleplayers.

The problem with Kobe is less about the teams he's won it with, though having 3 of those rings as the #2 guy on the team rather than #1 does hurt him. The problem with Kobe compared to MJ is the personal acolades and the failures. He's lost 2 finals already. He's not near MJ in terms of scoring titles, MVP's, final's MVP's, Defensive MVP's or Defensive First Teams. Not to mention that while Kobe could end up with more rings it'll be in more years than Jordan was playing thanks to the age of high school players and 1's and dones. Kobe is in that echelon of "great" players and could very well be in the realm of "some of the greatest ever". But I don't think he's goin to be able to touch Jordan.
 

Zyphlin

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
51,312
Reaction score
35,173
Location
NoMoAuchie
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
I gotta say, I gained as much respect for Kevin Durant during this time as I lost for LeBron with how Durant handled things.

The owner of the cavs is an idiot for doing what he did, as he essentially gave LeBron a scapegoat for the hatred that was going to be coming down on him.

Jesse Jackson is an idiot.
 

liblady

pirate lover
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 7, 2009
Messages
16,164
Reaction score
5,060
Location
St Thomas, VI
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
link
Note: yes, it links to espn.com, but it is an AP article




The race-monger-extraordinare is at it again. LeBron James is the most selfish star athlete in a very long time -- and that is saying a lot. James IS a selfish player, he is NOT a team player and he did give up on his team. And the way he made a circus of his move to Miami was just more proof of how it was all about him and nothing about his team

LeBron James is pathetic and Jesse Jackson once again showed how pathetic he was with these comments. The two make good bedfellows...

jj was wrong.......but lebron james has every freaking right to play wherever he wishes. he gave 7 years to the team, and nobody bats an eye when players are released or traded. this whole thing is ridiculous.
 

liblady

pirate lover
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 7, 2009
Messages
16,164
Reaction score
5,060
Location
St Thomas, VI
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
LeBron are you listening? Some asian guy from New Hampshire called you pathetic. Even though all you've done is taken full advantage of the very market he advocates for. Never you mind that your talent speaks for itself and you like the pathetic and selfish athlete you are dragged behind you a ****ty team in Cleveland. Don't forget that the Cavs organization and its executives gladly pimped out your image and made billions off you for years. Forget about being the only superstar in a team made up of supporting cast members that didn't deliver for nearly a decade. How selfish of you LeBron! But don't worry LeBron! Now that you're gone, they're finally going to work so that they get that Championship ring, something they weren't in that much of a hurry to do when you were around to be milked like a cow.

I know the cool thing right now is to criticize LeBron for sticking it to a few guys who made a few hundred million off his back but I don't think he really cares Luda.

a8ip99l3ff6u6fl.jpg

i thank you a hundred times for this post.
 

Zyphlin

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
51,312
Reaction score
35,173
Location
NoMoAuchie
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
jj was wrong.......but lebron james has every freaking right to play wherever he wishes. he gave 7 years to the team, and nobody bats an eye when players are released or traded. this whole thing is ridiculous.

You really don't realize that a large part of the complaints isn't that he left the team, but how? A team that has repeatedly tried to accomodate LeBron from reportedly consulting him regarding player personel decisions, choice of coaches, etc. The fact he let them know a week into free agency, after most of the major ones have been picked, that he wasn't resigning with a phone call minutes before announcing it to a national TV audiance? The notion that he left his hometown team with an inability to go out and potentially get a even decent replacement by his indecisiveness, and rubbed salt in their wounds of him leaving by making it an enormous TV spectacle. That people see Kevin Durant reup quietly in an off year on Twitter, Amare give a relatively simple 5 minute press conference, and Wade and Bosh simply take a few days and decide in a standard way....but LeBron must have an hour long special after all the major people have signed so all the attention can be on him because he's oh so special and important and everyone must watch the King.

Really, outside of Cleveland...which you know, I can't blame them...whose mad at LeBron for going to a team of his choosing? Most people I've heard upset with LeBron is how he was amazingly dickish with his former team, acted a diva on the level of Brett Favre, and essentially looked like a giant egomaniac. In cleveland, yeah they're mad he left. And again, I say I can't blame them really. You have essentially a hometown guy in a city whose notoriously a loser who essentially seemed to give promise to FINALLY breaking that bad streak and doing it with "one of their own". The Cleveland market has embraced him, from the giant "witness" banner to the sell outs after sell outs for the team. To that market it was more than simply basketball. I don't think that's right, and I don't think he's wrong for not staying, but those people I can at least not fault for being made he left. But again, outside of cleveland, I don't know many that actually feel that way.
 

ludahai

Defender of the Faith
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
10,320
Reaction score
2,115
Location
Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
jj was wrong.......but lebron james has every freaking right to play wherever he wishes. he gave 7 years to the team, and nobody bats an eye when players are released or traded. this whole thing is ridiculous.

Not complaining that he moved to a new team -- happens all the time in the NBA.

I take issue with both HOW James announced the move AND Jesse Jackson's race mongering rant...
 

liblady

pirate lover
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 7, 2009
Messages
16,164
Reaction score
5,060
Location
St Thomas, VI
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
You really don't realize that a large part of the complaints isn't that he left the team, but how? A team that has repeatedly tried to accomodate LeBron from reportedly consulting him regarding player personel decisions, choice of coaches, etc. The fact he let them know a week into free agency, after most of the major ones have been picked, that he wasn't resigning with a phone call minutes before announcing it to a national TV audiance? The notion that he left his hometown team with an inability to go out and potentially get a even decent replacement by his indecisiveness, and rubbed salt in their wounds of him leaving by making it an enormous TV spectacle. That people see Kevin Durant reup quietly in an off year on Twitter, Amare give a relatively simple 5 minute press conference, and Wade and Bosh simply take a few days and decide in a standard way....but LeBron must have an hour long special after all the major people have signed so all the attention can be on him because he's oh so special and important and everyone must watch the King.

Really, outside of Cleveland...which you know, I can't blame them...whose mad at LeBron for going to a team of his choosing? Most people I've heard upset with LeBron is how he was amazingly dickish with his former team, acted a diva on the level of Brett Favre, and essentially looked like a giant egomaniac. In cleveland, yeah they're mad he left. And again, I say I can't blame them really. You have essentially a hometown guy in a city whose notoriously a loser who essentially seemed to give promise to FINALLY breaking that bad streak and doing it with "one of their own". The Cleveland market has embraced him, from the giant "witness" banner to the sell outs after sell outs for the team. To that market it was more than simply basketball. I don't think that's right, and I don't think he's wrong for not staying, but those people I can at least not fault for being made he left. But again, outside of cleveland, I don't know many that actually feel that way.

i do realize he was an ass for holding a fake press conference....but so what? cleveland had 7 years to bring in additional talent....and they didn't. and he's not notoiously a loser, cleveland teams are notorious losers. again, nobody bats an eye when players are traded or released, and there's no such thing as team loyalty to player.
 
Top Bottom