Catholic cardinal says any new NY law for abuse victims should avoid 'breaking' the church

[TU Curmudgeon]

From NBC News

Catholic cardinal says any new NY law for abuse victims should avoid 'breaking' the church
​

With the New York state Legislature expected to take up a bill that could enable more victims of sex abuse by priests to sue, Cardinal Timothy Dolan is calling for a measure that avoids "breaking" the Roman Catholic Church.

Dolan, who as archbishop of New York leads more than 2 million Catholics, says he is in favor of a proposed “Child Victims Act” but that such a bill should focus on helping victims.

"The emphasis must be on helping them heal, not breaking government, educational, health, welfare, or religious organizations and institutions," Dolan wrote in a op-ed Tuesday in The Daily News.

To achieve this, the cardinal said the bill should be modeled on an independent program run by the archdiocese of New York and four other dioceses in the state that has already paid over $200 million in compensation to more than 1,000 people.

COMMENT:-

Gosh, requiring the RCC Inc. to actually pay the appropriate amount of damages as awarded by the courts is something that the RCC Inc. approves of provided that it doesn't actually harm the financial viability of the RCC Inc.

So tell me something new?

Describing legislation that will assist victims of sexual abuse by decades of Catholic priests as being legislation that is aimed at "breaking government, educational, health, welfare, or religious organizations" is one of the finest combinations of emotionally laden sophistry and semantic bunk that I have seen in years.

If the RCC Inc. would actually come clean about the number of reported incidents, the names of the alleged abusers, and what actual steps the RCC Inc. did to PREVENT similar instances from happening again (as well as what steps the RCC Inc. took to cover up those instances) I might be somewhat more inclined to cut it some slack.

It isn't, so I'm not.
​

 

[Cardinal]

If your church is "broken" by protecting its sexual abuse victims, then maybe you shouldn't have a church.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

If your church is "broken" by protecting its sexual abuse victims, then maybe you shouldn't have a church.

Even if the RCC Inc. were forced to sell off 100% of its holdings and declare bankruptcy, that would have exactly ZERO to do with the validity of the tenets of the Roman Catholic RELIGION.

Priests take vows of BOTH "poverty" and "chastity".

If the actions of some in violating those vows mean that all of them will have to abide by the other, this is the fault of - who?

If those others don't want to abide by BOTH halves of their vows and "leave the Church" what does that say about their "dedication to God"?

 

[EMNofSeattle]

If your church is "broken" by protecting its sexual abuse victims, then maybe you shouldn't have a church.

I’m ready for the Cristeros round 2.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

From NBC News

Catholic cardinal says any new NY law for abuse victims should avoid 'breaking' the church
​

With the New York state Legislature expected to take up a bill that could enable more victims of sex abuse by priests to sue, Cardinal Timothy Dolan is calling for a measure that avoids "breaking" the Roman Catholic Church.

Dolan, who as archbishop of New York leads more than 2 million Catholics, says he is in favor of a proposed “Child Victims Act” but that such a bill should focus on helping victims.

"The emphasis must be on helping them heal, not breaking government, educational, health, welfare, or religious organizations and institutions," Dolan wrote in a op-ed Tuesday in The Daily News.

To achieve this, the cardinal said the bill should be modeled on an independent program run by the archdiocese of New York and four other dioceses in the state that has already paid over $200 million in compensation to more than 1,000 people.

COMMENT:-

Gosh, requiring the RCC Inc. to actually pay the appropriate amount of damages as awarded by the courts is something that the RCC Inc. approves of provided that it doesn't actually harm the financial viability of the RCC Inc.

So tell me something new?

Describing legislation that will assist victims of sexual abuse by decades of Catholic priests as being legislation that is aimed at "breaking government, educational, health, welfare, or religious organizations" is one of the finest combinations of emotionally laden sophistry and semantic bunk that I have seen in years.

If the RCC Inc. would actually come clean about the number of reported incidents, the names of the alleged abusers, and what actual steps the RCC Inc. did to PREVENT similar instances from happening again (as well as what steps the RCC Inc. took to cover up those instances) I might be somewhat more inclined to cut it some slack.

It isn't, so I'm not.
​

What is your definition of “coming clean” i guarantee you nothing the Church does will ever be seen as good enough to have “come clean”.

Most of these are cases dating back decades ago, representing very small numbers of the priesthood and the church has already addressed the causes of the abuse, until the 1990s sending someone out of town was a common technique of all organizations. We shouldn’t be bankrupting organizations with decades old allegations for which in many cases the alleged abusers aren’t even alive anymore

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

What is your definition of “coming clean” i guarantee you nothing the Church does will ever be seen as good enough to have “come clean”.

Most of these are cases dating back decades ago, representing very small numbers of the priesthood and the church has already addressed the causes of the abuse, until the 1990s sending someone out of town was a common technique of all organizations. We shouldn’t be bankrupting organizations with decades old allegations for which in many cases the alleged abusers aren’t even alive anymore

So, the rich and powerful should always be able to avoid responsibility/restitution on the grounds that it will cost the rich and powerful so much that they won't be rich and powerful anymore (which appears to be your point) right?

 

[EMNofSeattle]

So, the rich and powerful should always be able to avoid responsibility/restitution on the grounds that it will cost the rich and powerful so much that they won't be rich and powerful anymore (which appears to be your point) right?

No. I’m saying states shouldn’t be amending civil statutes of limitations, nor should restitution mean bankrupting long standing institutions, especially since the institution in question has taken these seriously and made substantial reforms to prevent these things from happening again, and most claims date back to long ago where no one can prove they didn’t happen


And who are you really holding accountable? For most of the abusers they won’t lose anything. Most claims are not provable, so if it’s civil juries awards it will be regular parishioners who lose, and not anyone individual responsible.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

No. I’m saying states shouldn’t be amending civil statutes of limitations, nor should restitution mean bankrupting long standing institutions, especially since the institution in question has taken these seriously and made substantial reforms to prevent these things from happening again, and most claims date back to long ago where no one can prove they didn’t happen


And who are you really holding accountable? For most of the abusers they won’t lose anything. Most claims are not provable, so if it’s civil juries awards it will be regular parishioners who lose, and not anyone individual responsible.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

OK, I'll accept that your position is that no one should ever go to jail for robbing a bank as long as they promise not to rob any more banks in the future - which is (essentially) what your position is.

PS - Regardless of the size of the judgment, the parishioners wouldn't be on the hook for a dime of it.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

OK, I'll accept that your position is that no one should ever go to jail for robbing a bank as long as they promise not to rob any more banks in the future - which is (essentially) what your position is.

No your position would be more like, if a handful of bank robbers existed in your organization, and robbed some banks, but in a way that couldn’t be conclusively proven then you should be liable for all the bank robbing.

PS - Regardless of the size of the judgment, the parishioners wouldn't be on the hook for a dime of it.

They just won’t have a parish.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ElChupacabra]

From NBC News

Catholic cardinal says any new NY law for abuse victims should avoid 'breaking' the church
​

With the New York state Legislature expected to take up a bill that could enable more victims of sex abuse by priests to sue, Cardinal Timothy Dolan is calling for a measure that avoids "breaking" the Roman Catholic Church.

Dolan, who as archbishop of New York leads more than 2 million Catholics, says he is in favor of a proposed “Child Victims Act” but that such a bill should focus on helping victims.

"The emphasis must be on helping them heal, not breaking government, educational, health, welfare, or religious organizations and institutions," Dolan wrote in a op-ed Tuesday in The Daily News.

To achieve this, the cardinal said the bill should be modeled on an independent program run by the archdiocese of New York and four other dioceses in the state that has already paid over $200 million in compensation to more than 1,000 people.

COMMENT:-

Gosh, requiring the RCC Inc. to actually pay the appropriate amount of damages as awarded by the courts is something that the RCC Inc. approves of provided that it doesn't actually harm the financial viability of the RCC Inc.

So tell me something new?

Describing legislation that will assist victims of sexual abuse by decades of Catholic priests as being legislation that is aimed at "breaking government, educational, health, welfare, or religious organizations" is one of the finest combinations of emotionally laden sophistry and semantic bunk that I have seen in years.

If the RCC Inc. would actually come clean about the number of reported incidents, the names of the alleged abusers, and what actual steps the RCC Inc. did to PREVENT similar instances from happening again (as well as what steps the RCC Inc. took to cover up those instances) I might be somewhat more inclined to cut it some slack.

It isn't, so I'm not.
​

Amen.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

No your position would be more like, if a handful of bank robbers existed in your organization, and robbed some banks, but in a way that couldn’t be conclusively proven then you should be liable for all the bank robbing.

Nope, they shouldn't be punished if the proof didn't meet the required legal standard (in civil matters that is "on the balance of probabilities"). IF that standard of proof has been met AND people can be proven to have enabled the unlawful conduct then those people become liable as well.

That, my friend, is what "The Law" IS.

They just won’t have a parish.

Piffle!

You do know what a parish is, don't you?

Now I will admit that the RCC Inc. might end up short some of its property holdings and/or cash, but the AREA that its priests serve will still exist and there would be absolutely nothing stopping those priests from holding whatever services they deemed appropriate at any place they could obtain the use of - which would include outdoors in public parks.

Matthew 18:20 says

"For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”
​

and there is nothing in The Bible that says

"Whenever a bunch of people gather in an ornate building containing several hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of artwork that is situated on property worth several hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of property in attendance upon priests wearing robes worth hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars, who are conducting services using chattels made of gold, there - and only there - am I with them."
​

PS - You do know that the parishioners do NOT own the assets of the parish, don't you? Those assets are owned by the RCC Inc.. That means that, even if all the assets of the parish go to satisfy judgments against the RCC Inc. and its various levels of management personnel, the parishioners lose exactly NOTHING of spiritual worth.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

The latest position of the RCC Inc. is

German cardinal: Society hypocritical on church sex abuse

A German cardinal is asserting that outrage about the Catholic Church's sexual abuse scandal is hypocritical, arguing that what happened reflected events in society as a whole.

The church has been shaken over recent years by scandals in several countries, including Germany. A church-commissioned report concluded that at least 3,677 people were abused by clergy in Germany between 1946 and 2014, prompting a top bishop to apologize.

However, in comments to German news agency dpa published Friday, Vatican-based Cardinal Walter Brandmueller was quoted as saying that "society is behaving pretty hypocritically."
​

That pretty much translates out to "Hey, why pick on us!!! EVERYONE ELSE was doing it too." - which is classic "Whadaboudisim" at its best.

 

[Peter King]

From NBC News

Catholic cardinal says any new NY law for abuse victims should avoid 'breaking' the church
​

With the New York state Legislature expected to take up a bill that could enable more victims of sex abuse by priests to sue, Cardinal Timothy Dolan is calling for a measure that avoids "breaking" the Roman Catholic Church.

Dolan, who as archbishop of New York leads more than 2 million Catholics, says he is in favor of a proposed “Child Victims Act” but that such a bill should focus on helping victims.

"The emphasis must be on helping them heal, not breaking government, educational, health, welfare, or religious organizations and institutions," Dolan wrote in a op-ed Tuesday in The Daily News.

To achieve this, the cardinal said the bill should be modeled on an independent program run by the archdiocese of New York and four other dioceses in the state that has already paid over $200 million in compensation to more than 1,000 people.

COMMENT:-

Gosh, requiring the RCC Inc. to actually pay the appropriate amount of damages as awarded by the courts is something that the RCC Inc. approves of provided that it doesn't actually harm the financial viability of the RCC Inc.

So tell me something new?

Describing legislation that will assist victims of sexual abuse by decades of Catholic priests as being legislation that is aimed at "breaking government, educational, health, welfare, or religious organizations" is one of the finest combinations of emotionally laden sophistry and semantic bunk that I have seen in years.

If the RCC Inc. would actually come clean about the number of reported incidents, the names of the alleged abusers, and what actual steps the RCC Inc. did to PREVENT similar instances from happening again (as well as what steps the RCC Inc. took to cover up those instances) I might be somewhat more inclined to cut it some slack.

It isn't, so I'm not.
​

If you child molesting organization hadn't swept all that abuse under the rug, and had made sure their perverts were moved around from diocese to diocese without punishing them or making sure they would never had made more victims time and time again.

So mr. Dolan, get bent with your "don't break the church" BS. His church has physically and mentally broken thousands upon thousands of victims so his wishes are an immoral attempt to get away with their crimes.

 

[bluesmoke]

From NBC News

Catholic cardinal says any new NY law for abuse victims should avoid 'breaking' the church
​

With the New York state Legislature expected to take up a bill that could enable more victims of sex abuse by priests to sue, Cardinal Timothy Dolan is calling for a measure that avoids "breaking" the Roman Catholic Church.

Dolan, who as archbishop of New York leads more than 2 million Catholics, says he is in favor of a proposed “Child Victims Act” but that such a bill should focus on helping victims.

"The emphasis must be on helping them heal, not breaking government, educational, health, welfare, or religious organizations and institutions," Dolan wrote in a op-ed Tuesday in The Daily News.

To achieve this, the cardinal said the bill should be modeled on an independent program run by the archdiocese of New York and four other dioceses in the state that has already paid over $200 million in compensation to more than 1,000 people.

COMMENT:-

Gosh, requiring the RCC Inc. to actually pay the appropriate amount of damages as awarded by the courts is something that the RCC Inc. approves of provided that it doesn't actually harm the financial viability of the RCC Inc.

So tell me something new?

Describing legislation that will assist victims of sexual abuse by decades of Catholic priests as being legislation that is aimed at "breaking government, educational, health, welfare, or religious organizations" is one of the finest combinations of emotionally laden sophistry and semantic bunk that I have seen in years.

If the RCC Inc. would actually come clean about the number of reported incidents, the names of the alleged abusers, and what actual steps the RCC Inc. did to PREVENT similar instances from happening again (as well as what steps the RCC Inc. took to cover up those instances) I might be somewhat more inclined to cut it some slack.

It isn't, so I'm not.
​

Impose the law and let whatever result may BR the RCC happen as deserved. Their entire system, from priest to pope, has been complicit in protecting pedophile priest, etc. They can continue collecting pennies from the poor.

Sexual abuse within the Protestant is being more and more revealed. I wonder about sexual abuse in the Greek Orthodox Church.