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Castro says U.S. afraid to face Cuba in Classic

FinnMacCool said:
Trojan are you actually going to try and make a decent argument or you going to just keep repating this claim which has been refuted already?

This is your debate tactic, you always tell me to drop my main point because you falsly claim that it's already been refuted when in reality it has not and never will be refuted because it's the historical truth as I have clearly demonstrated through the full text of the 1973 Chamber of Deputies resolution ordering the military to remove Allende from power for crimes against the Republic and the Chilean Constitution. Your revisionist history bears little bearing on the historical truth which is that Pinochet was under orders to defeat the unconstiutional Communist revolutionaries who were attempting to create a totalitarian Communist dictatorship to replace the Chilean Democratic Republic.
 
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
I wish their had been a Pinochet back in 1929 Germany, then WW2 would never have happened.
This is a statement of such breathtakingly Orwellian proportions that I feel like Ive stepped into a living breathing version of 1984.... Im sure the thousands of women who were raped by trained dogs were extarordinarilyl thankful to be liberated from Chile's very own Hitler...(!)
(and it was the Japanese that attacked you lot remember)

Nah, instead they would have had an 18 year dictatorship rather than a 12 year one - is that what you were saying?

Remind me again, where's the part in the history books where Hitler was really unfriendly with all the leaders of big business like Krupp and Volkswagen? Yeah, sounds just like Allende to me.

You still have yet to explain how one document written by Allende's sworn political enemies and then translated into English by a quasi-fascist website (and even then doesnt order a coup, or describe any specific acts of repression) is equivalent to a vast body of evidence from a huge number of sources describing the horrific human rights abuses of the Pinochet regime - provide me with some more sources describing some precise events where human rights abuses took place if you are to retain any credibility (and this is doubtful).

You still have yet to explain why Pinochet dissolved the National Assembly, which had supposedly ordered him to depose Allende, after the coup, and didnt reinstate it until forced to by democratic campaigners and the US government 17 years later (after having already made himself many millions of dollars). Was it to defend the Republic?

You still have yet to explain why the KGB themselves would regard Allende as being to weak because of his commitment to peaceful methods if he was a repressive tyrant.

instead you repeat yourself like a a fascist-sympathising parakeet.
 
Touchmaster said:
This is a statement of such breathtakingly Orwellian proportions that I feel like Ive stepped into a living breathing version of 1984.... Im sure the thousands of women who were raped by trained dogs were extarordinarilyl thankful to be liberated from Chile's very own Hitler...(!)
(and it was the Japanese that attacked you lot remember)

LMFAO no Allende was the Hitler of Chile, as for the dog rape thing, wow just wow, got any documented evidence of that or just Commie propoganda?
Nah, instead they would have had an 18 year dictatorship rather than a 12 year one - is that what you were saying?

Chile's Democratic today, Pinochet had a new Constitution ratified in 1980 and lost his power in an election in 1988, how Hitleresk of him to allow for elections.
Remind me again, where's the part in the history books where Hitler was really unfriendly with all the leaders of big business like Krupp and Volkswagen? Yeah, sounds just like Allende to me.

Remind me again when Hitler had a policy of neo-liberalist economic reform instead of a policy of nationalization of industry and state control over the economy? Hitler was a socialist, Mussolini was a devout Marxist and Fascism is an offshoot of Marxist principles.
You still have yet to explain how one document written by Allende's sworn political enemies and then translated into English by a quasi-fascist website (and even then doesnt order a coup, or describe any specific acts of repression) is equivalent to a vast body of evidence from a huge number of sources describing the horrific human rights abuses of the Pinochet regime - provide me with some more sources describing some precise events where human rights abuses took place if you are to retain any credibility (and this is doubtful).

Sworn political enemies? You mean the elected representatives of the Chilean people in the Deputy of Chambers?
You still have yet to explain why Pinochet dissolved the National Assembly, which had supposedly ordered him to depose Allende, after the coup, and didnt reinstate it until forced to by democratic campaigners and the US government 17 years later (after having already made himself many millions of dollars). Was it to defend the Republic?

Constitution ratified in 1980, elections held in 1988, Pinochet currently awaits trial for his excesses by the same Democratic government that he helped to protect from the Communist revolutionaries, nuff said.
You still have yet to explain why the KGB themselves would regard Allende as being to weak because of his commitment to peaceful methods if he was a repressive tyrant.

O.K. buddy read the resolution again and tell me how Allende was doing anything peacefully or within the letter of the Chilean Constitution?
instead you repeat yourself like a a fascist-sympathising parakeet.

Instead you repeat yourself like a Communist-sympathizing revisionist historian.
 
Lets move this argument to the International politics forum post about Allende being a tyrant, as it has nothing to do with the original nature of the thread. And you will see that I have already posted there and shown proof of your lies from your beloved government's own state department.
 
Touchmaster said:
Lets move this argument to the International politics forum post about Allende being a tyrant, as it has nothing to do with the original nature of the thread. And you will see that I have already posted there and shown proof of your lies from your beloved government's own state department.

And the State Department knows better than Chile's own deputy of chambers? :roll:
 
Touchmaster said:
ermmm.... how do you think the cuban rebels led by castro deposed the dictator batista in the fifties = as the majority of cubans were in greater poverty than they are now (despite decades of crippling economic warfare from the US) and the regime was far more repressive than Castro's? the simple fact is because they had widespread popular support... which is evidently not currently all that forthcoming. And, while I agree that of course Castro should transition the country towards free elections if he is so confident of the people's support, it cannot in any way be said that it is one of the most repressive regimes on Earth, it is probably one of the least repressive dictatorships of recent times - does it compare to any of the other dictatorships of latin america (friendly with the US) where tens of thousands were brutally massacred? or to Saddam's regime where tens of thousands were killed? or to saudi arabia where people's hands are cut off for stealing? or burma where hundreds of thousands have been killed and tortured? or indonesia (one of the US's closest allies) where millions were killed by the army in one of the twentieth century's worst genocides?
the only sensible answer is no, although clampdowns on free speech are of course not to be applauded, but some perspective is needed beyond the propaganda of the extreme right wing quasi-fascist Miami exile community, most of whom are remnants of the cuban elite who profited massively from the Batista regime's corrpution at the expense of the majority of the Cuban population. (YOu one of those by any chance Titus?). I have been to Cuba and I must say that the general feeling on the streets was of a pretty content people, who while relatively poor at least have support from their government on the essential like healthcare, food and education.


You are incredible & i bet because you were an American tourist you were given king treatment. From what i read it seems that you don't give a Sh * t about what the Cuban people go through. I know that Fidel is not the worst dictator in the world but there is no way you can deny how bad those people live. They only depend on trade with eachother. ( sometimes trading Egg's for milk or chicken for clean water. ) But what really pisses me off is on how our government doesn't do anything about it. why.....because there is no economic interest to be had in Cuba....


Kandahar said:
What the **** are they going to rebel with? They don't have any weapons, they don't have any money, and they're on a damn island so they can't just cross the border to plan an attack.

If the Cubans are so happy and blissful, why can't Castro hold an election?

:confused:


EXACTLY!
 
COBRA said:
You are incredible & i bet because you were an American tourist you were given king treatment. From what i read it seems that you don't give a Sh * t about what the Cuban people go through. I know that Fidel is not the worst dictator in the world but there is no way you can deny how bad those people live. They only depend on trade with eachother. ( sometimes trading Egg's for milk or chicken for clean water. ) But what really pisses me off is on how our government doesn't do anything about it. why.....because there is no economic interest to be had in Cuba....





EXACTLY!

A CUBAN FREEDOM FIGHTERS ORGANIZATION

1961 - 2001

Our purpose for having a Web-Page on the Internet:

There appears to be a relentless campaign spearheaded by the tyrannical government that misappropriated the island of Cuba, interested organizations, and other foreign governments that pretends that the Castro-Communist system is about to release its grip on the Cuban people and that peace with them is at hand.

This campaign which pretends to believe that little by little the system will surrender all its power and freedom will come to our people lacks perspective and is absolutely wrong. First, it forgets the character of the tyrant -- a totalitarian subhuman incapable of any noble feelings, who has mercilessly taken away from the Cuban people all their human rights.

Secondly, great efforts are being made to conceal the fact that there is a revolution already going on inside Cuba. That this underground revolution could explode at any moment unexpectedly and that throughout the island thousands of secret groups are working day and night to bring about this moment of liberation.

Occasionally news of clandestine operations, sabotages, slowdowns, silent and not so silent protests which keep the prisons full at all times, demonstrates a movement that has only one objective: TOTAL VICTORY. History has shown us that once a people enter into a revolutionary state of mind, in pursuit of its rights, nothing will deter them from obtaining the final triumph.

To inform the world of this revolution in the making, which ALPHA 66 has been a part of since its inception; to give a voice to those Freedom Fighters who are risking their lives and to hold accountable those who are helping the tyrant, we bring our information to the Internet.

We invite all to visit our Web-Page, to work with us, to participate in the pursuit of the glorious day when Cuba's liberation will mark one of the golden pages in the history of the 20th century. All those that work with us will be proud to have had a part in this unique event of seeing the end of Communism in our America.

Thank you for visiting our Web Page.

March 25, 1998

..................................................
 
OUR HISTORY

CUBAN FREEDOM FIGHTERS
IN QUEST OF THE LIBERATION OF OUR HOMELAND

ALPHA 66 was organized in Puerto Rico at the end of 1961 with 66 men. Alpha is the first letter of the Greek alphabet, but to us it means the beginning of the fight against communism in Cuba. Thus the reason for its name. Most of the 66 men were professionals; accountants, workers and revolutionaries who had fought against the Batista dictatorship.

ALPHA 66 was created with the intention of making commando type attacks on Cuba to maintain the fighting spirit of the Cuban people after the failure of the Bay of Pigs invasion.

FIRST ACTIONS

The first attacks on Cuba were to the port of Isabela de Sagua and Juan Francisco Beach in 1962. Afterwards a Russian ship was attacked in a Cuban port, and G-2 headquarters (Castro's dreaded military police) were ransacked at Isabela. In both attacks at Isabela our men were on Cuban soil. Those actions were followed by many others. The Militia training camps in Tarará were attacked on three different occasions. Other actions and infiltrations took place in the years from 1962 to l964, such as Matanzas Bay, the port of Havana and Caibarien where a British ship was attacked.

In 1964, ALPHA 66 decided to take stronger actions rather that just commando raids and began to work on the "Omega Plan" which consisted of situating a guerrilla force, well equipped, inside Cuba. From the Dominican Republic where ALPHA 66 had a training camp, Major Eloy Gutiérrez Menoyo with three other fighters landed in Oriente Province, leaving behind a force of fifty men, who were never able to land in Cuba. Gutiérrez Menoyo and his men were made prisoners and we had to leave our training camp due to the American government's pressure on Dominican authorities.

NEW OPERATION PLANS

Andrés Nazario Sargén, who also had been a Major in the struggle against Batista's regime and one of the founders of the organization worked in different capacities, such as Organization Secretary in charge of maintaining training camps well supplied, became General Secretary of the organization and, in October 1968, Captain Vicente Méndez was appointed in charge of the military operations. ALPHA 66 started a very strong drive to raise enough money to prepare a new plan to land a guerrilla force in Cuba under the command of Vicente Méndez. This operation was to take place before the end of 1969.

By December of that year Vicente Méndez, promoted to Colonel by the organization, was in Cuban waters trying to find a suitable place to land. Their first attempt was unsuccessful. In the first week of 1970, the two boats of the landing force were approaching the Cuban coast when a tropical storm hit and one of the boats capsized. We lost one man on this operation, Captain Julio César Ramírez. Finally, the other boat was rescued by an American ship and they were taken to Guantánamo.

But Colonel Méndez and his men were not discouraged. They started all over again, and ALPHA 66 mobilized its 63 delegations, making a frantic effort to raise new funds for the second trip. Money in large quantities was needed for new rifles, boats, equipment, etc., and all of ALPHA's men worked hard to raise money mainly among hard working Cubans and other sympathizers and, in two months, Colonel Vicente Méndez was ready again to try for a new landing in Cuba.

Against adversity, fate, and death, he finally landed in Baracoa, Oriente Province, on April 17, 1970. The day must be marked in history, because it is the turning point in the fight against Fidel Castro and his communist regime.

The commotion was world wide. The Castro regime was shaken to its foundation. His famous "ten million tons of sugar harvest" effort was paralyzed in Oriente Province after April 17. This caused a big set back to his goal of sugar production. The Cuban people had a new hope and ALPHA 66 was a new symbol.

ALPHA 66 struck again in May 1970 and two of Castro's boats were sunk and eleven prisoners taken. These fishermen boats were used to transport arms to communist guerrillas in Colombia and Venezuela and they were also on the lookout for our comando boats in order to give notice to the authorities. Castro, impotent against our attacks blamed the United States and put diplomatic pressure on us to let free the prisoners.

On September of the same year, the landing on the north coast of Oriente Province by Colonel José Rodríguez Pérez, with a group of men heading for the "Sierra Maestra" mountains, provided one of the most daring and heroic deeds of this epic fight against communism in our homeland. On a long ride through the Province, when they were in the outskirts of the city of Baire ready to penetrate the mountains, they confronted Castro's army and militia and fought valiantly, but the number of forces against them was impossible to overcome.

Castro announced total annihilation of the different guerrilla forces that had landed, but although some of them were taken prisoners and others killed in action or in front of firing squads, reports from the Cuban underground proved the existence of different groups of resistance in the mountains.

The landing of Vicente Méndez on April 1970, unsuccessful as it was in its main objective, gave impulse inside Cuba to the idea of fighting communism; the Cuban people understood that in exile there was a force named ALPHA 66 that was fighting for their cause. ALPHA 66 cells began to appear everywhere. A complete underground network took shape and the results were a series of sabotages, bombs in Havana, the burning of sugar warehouses, cane fields, tobacco houses, factories and anything that would harm the oppressive government.

At the same time, several expeditions headed for Cuba were intercepted by American authorities. Ships, arms, and ammunition were confiscated, but ALPHA 66 always understood that it had to overcome a mountain of difficulties and there is no other way.

THE MAXIMO GOMEZ PLAN

The experience showed us that one thing the Cuban people on the Island needed was a constant message. They needed something that would instill in them, even under the most difficult circumstances, a will to break away from a system that has been so oppressive, that has tried to make them into machines, denying the right to not only express their feelings but to have feelings at all or to think for themselves.

This is the reason we produce a constant barrage of radio programs to Cuba with ALPHA 66 messages of hope, hammering our perspective as to how to confront the tyranny. These radio messages, plus a series of new landings during the 1980's was called "The Máximo Gómez Plan," in honor of one of our liberators in the war against Spain.

In recent years the emphasis has been in calling the attention to the tourists who are cooperating with the cuban regime's official exploitation of prostitution that has flourished due to hunger and the miserable life under communism. Our commandos have had confrontation with Castro's forces on several occasions at the tourists facilities of Cayo Coco. Cells of ALPHA 66 in Cuba, in conjuntion with other forces fighting Castro inside the island, have sabotaged tourists attractions and other places where the common cuban people cannot visit due to the fact that everything revolves around dollars... which they don't have.

The magnitude and repercussions of the revolutionary changes in the communist world of the past few years are still difficult to comprehend. Yet, one thing does remain clear: the collapse and demise of Marxism-Leninism projects a conscience of freedom and liberty that will permeate throughout the coming century as a breath of fresh air.

For many years, communism was considered an indestructible system and philosophy. Nevertheless, in 1976, at the World Anti-Communist League convention in Taiwan, ALPHA 66 publicly stated "...that Marxism-Leninism is a failure; its economic system and the totalitarian direction taken, is destroying its own course in history; and therefore, it will disappear."

Mankind has long struggled for the optimum path toward progress, justice, and liberty compatible with the dignity of man. As we approach the 21th Century, the signs of the new era, aiming toward a renewal of moral values, the redistribution of wealth, labor, global independence, and freedom for all the people of the world, are visible.

ALPHA 66, the historic organization with more than 37 years of revolutionary effort, has created a force unlike any other struggling against Castro-communism. It has defied the norms, requested permission from no one, spared no sacrifice, and has acted without apprehension. With this spirit, ALPHA 66 will play a determining role in the fall of the Cuban tyranny, and will bear the responsibility of working with the future government to insure a triumphant democratic revolution.

Supported by the majorities within the island, as well as in exile, ALPHA 66 today is summoned to transform itself into a national political party. Its proper course will enable it to provide solutions to the demands of the people and to unify the nation on the road to an independent and sovereign republic.

ALPHA 66 has worked toward the demise of Castro's communism; it has lived the experience of the previous political process, while forging a spirit of respect toward others. It has planted seeds in Cuba's heart, and has shed its blood, fertilizing these seeds with honor. The road remaining is short; the revolution will erupt, and Cuba will be free. The tryst is over there, with the will to serve our country and desire to fulfill its hopes and dreams.

ALPHA 66 is not only a symbol of hope to see Cuba free again, it is a reality on the road to freedom.

March 18, 1998

http://www.alpha66.org/english/our history.htm
 
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