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Carter Wants U.S To Fund Terror

F41

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This guy is nuts (pun intended), We can not fund a terror group who calls for the destruction of any country and the annihilation of it`s people and will not change its charter to allow Israel the right to exist.
As far as I know, at least the Fatah party was willing to work with Israel.

Carter calls for funding Palestinians
By ETGAR LEFKOVITS

A day after Hamas swept to an upset victory in the Palestinian parliamentary elections, former US President Jimmy Carter on Thursday said that Wednesday's voting had been orderly and fair.

"The elections were completely honest, completely fair, completely safe and without violence," the former president said.

Carter, who led an 85-member international observer team from around the world organized by the 'National Democratic Institute' in partnership with 'The Carter Center,' urged the international community to directly or indirectly fund the new Palestinian Government even though it will be led by an internationally-declared foreign terror organization.
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by ThePhoenix
This guy is nuts (pun intended), We can not fund a terror group who calls for the destruction of any country and the annihilation of it`s people and will not change its charter to allow Israel the right to exist.
As far as I know, at least the Fatah party was willing to work with Israel.
Are you for democracy or not?
 

alphieb

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ThePhoenix said:
This guy is nuts (pun intended), We can not fund a terror group who calls for the destruction of any country and the annihilation of it`s people and will not change its charter to allow Israel the right to exist.
As far as I know, at least the Fatah party was willing to work with Israel.
Get off his a** Carter has not been in office for 27 years. Why all the fuss on Carter? Whine a little more rightie.
 

F41

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Billo_Really said:
Are you for democracy or not?
Democracy is fine and they have their democracy, but funding terror is not.
 

F41

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alphieb said:
Get off his a** Carter has not been in office for 27 years. Why all the fuss on Carter? Whine a little more rightie.
As long as he stays on his podium I`ll stay on his liberal a**
 

ProudAmerican

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Jimmy Carter makes Bush look like a Harvord Grad........oh wait.....Bush is a Harvord Grad.

Carter is a moron.

it shouldnt surprise anyone that he would side with the enemy.
 

cherokee

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Carter is a peace activist, he believes if the money came for others besides the hammas then maybe the people would reject the violent groups.
 

Calm2Chaos

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alphieb said:
Get off his a** Carter has not been in office for 27 years. Why all the fuss on Carter? Whine a little more rightie.
You mean other then the desire to fund an openly terroristic organization? It doesn't surprise me that a liberal would be okay with this idea. Is this so when we have to actually do something about it you will have something to complain about.
 

ashurbanipal

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Terrorism is a point of view--I think it's clear we ought to fund Hamas provided they use the funding to help the Palestinian people.
 

cherokee

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ashurbanipal said:
Terrorism is a point of view--I think it's clear we ought to fund Hamas provided they use the funding to help the Palestinian people.


And that’s the trouble.
The schools hammas runs brainwash the kids with the whole idea that suicide bombing is a great way to die. They even have posters honoring them in the classrooms. .

Hammas has to remake it self. The suicide bombing has to stop.
 

Calm2Chaos

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ashurbanipal said:
Terrorism is a point of view--I think it's clear we ought to fund Hamas provided they use the funding to help the Palestinian people.
If they are willing to publicly denounce the use of terror and terrorist organization then fine lets fund them. If at any point we find out differently we wipe them clean from the face of the earth
 

ashurbanipal

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I don't see why they should be made to denounce the use of terrorism. They have legitimate and severe grievances that are only begining to be addressed. While I deplore blowing people up, there's a time when it becomes necessary.
 

ashurbanipal

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The schools hammas runs brainwash the kids with the whole idea that suicide bombing is a great way to die. They even have posters honoring them in the classrooms.
You may be surprised to learn that the textbooks they use were comissioned by the U.S. government and shipped to them--under Carter's presidency, IIRC.

Hammas has to remake it self. The suicide bombing has to stop.
The bombing ought to stop. But so ought Israeli aggression.
 

ashurbanipal

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Just to be clear (because it may seem to some that I said two different things in successive posts):

I don't like it when Israelis are blown up. I don't think it's right. It makes me sick, actually, to think what it must be like have loved and lost someone in a bombing.

But I think the same things when I see that Israel has kicked a bunch of Palestinians off of land they had lived on for generations, when the Israelis have imprisoned Palestinian men for decades because they were transporting goods by Donkey or were driving with their headlights on, or when the Israelis launch missiles at a Palestinian market and kill 20 Palestinians to get one suspected terrorist.

So long as the Israelis continue to steal land, imprison Palestinians unjustly, deny them access to basic resources, and kill them indiscriminately, then the Palestinians have no choice but to blow up as many Israelis as they can.
 

Calm2Chaos

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ashurbanipal said:
I don't see why they should be made to denounce the use of terrorism. They have legitimate and severe grievances that are only begining to be addressed. While I deplore blowing people up, there's a time when it becomes necessary.

So you feel there is a time to detonate explosives in the midst of a group of woman and children? You think target innocent civilians day in and day out is an exceptable form of expression? Sorry.. but theres something wrong with you
 

Calm2Chaos

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ashurbanipal said:
You may be surprised to learn that the textbooks they use were comissioned by the U.S. government and shipped to them--under Carter's presidency, IIRC.

Does not mean there not teaching these kids that they should strap martry bombs to there chest and run into a kidergarten class somewhere
ashurbanipal said:
The bombing ought to stop. But so ought Israeli aggression.
Hamas are terrorist targeting civilians, that makes them animals in todays day and age.
 

oldreliable67

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ashurbanipal said:
While I deplore blowing people up, there's a time when it becomes necessary.
No. No. No. There is never, ever, an excuse for deliberately targeting women and children.
 

ashurbanipal

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So you feel there is a time to detonate explosives in the midst of a group of woman and children? You think target innocent civilians day in and day out is an exceptable form of expression? Sorry.. but theres something wrong with you
I think (not feel-there's a difference) that the circumstances must be extreme. To wit, all the following must obtain:

Let group A be some group of people, and group B be some group of people who are committing terrorist acts as described. Then:

1) Group A must have killed and/ or impoverished many members of group B indiscriminately, including women and children, prior to group B's commission of terrorism.

2) Group A must have ensured that group B has no means of legal recourse against group A.

3) Group A must have ensured that group B has no means of publicizing their plight or that such publicity can be made to be confused or discredited.

4) Group A must have ensured that group B has no other means to fight against group A, and that group B could not inflict any military casualties against group A by any means.

All those conditions obtain where group A is the Israelis and group B is the Palestinians. We can debate this, of course, but would you agree that if I am right about these conditions, such action is warranted?

Does not mean there not teaching these kids that they should strap martry bombs to there chest and run into a kidergarten class somewhere
I don't follow.

H@mas are terrorist targeting civilians, that makes them animals in todays day and age.
Then we are a bigger and more savage animal.

No. No. No. There is never, ever, an excuse for deliberately targeting women and children.
1) Who said anything about excuses?

2) Prove it. Show why such a thing would not be justified in the circumstances outlined above, and the following as well:

1) Suppose that aliens landed on earth and told you that they would destroy the planet if you didn't kill a small group of women and children.

2) Suppose that the women and children in question are themselves planning to destroy the planet and have the means to do so.

These may seem like far-fetched circumstances--but your claim is obviously that under no circumstance should women and children ever be deliberately killed. So you have to deal with them and show why we shouldn't kill those women and children.

In fact, I think that the circumstances I outlined at the top of this post justify it, though of all likely scenarios, they are the only ones that do.

Finally, realize that any reason you adduce for such an enterprise works equally against the United States, England, Israel, and assorted other Western Nations. When we rolled through Falluja and opened up with large caliber machine guns in neighborhoods we knew were populated with non-combatants, we were targetting women and children in exactly the same way that a bomber targets women and children. The point in either case is to inflict damage against a target perceived as doing you harm; that women and children happen to be present is secondary. Suppose someone has elected to blow up a bus. Do you think that they would abort this plan, if, on boarding the bus, they found it populated entirely by men?

I agree that women, children, and men ought to be able to live their lives without fear of being shot, stabbed, burned, blown up, run over, beaten, poisoned, driven from their land, or dispossesed in any way. But where one side has an overwhelming amount of power and they fail to exercise restraint thereof, and they commit such actions, what is left to the side that is victimized but to respond in kind?
 

Calm2Chaos

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ashurbanipal said:
I think (not feel-there's a difference) that the circumstances must be extreme. To wit, all the following must obtain:

Let group A be some group of people, and group B be some group of people who are committing terrorist acts as described. Then:

1) Group A must have killed and/ or impoverished many members of group B indiscriminately, including women and children, prior to group B's commission of terrorism.

2) Group A must have ensured that group B has no means of legal recourse against group A.

3) Group A must have ensured that group B has no means of publicizing their plight or that such publicity can be made to be confused or discredited.

4) Group A must have ensured that group B has no other means to fight against group A, and that group B could not inflict any military casualties against group A by any means.

All those conditions obtain where group A is the Israelis and group B is the Palestinians. We can debate this, of course, but would you agree that if I am right about these conditions, such action is warranted?



I don't follow.



Then we are a bigger and more savage animal.



1) Who said anything about excuses?

2) Prove it. Show why such a thing would not be justified in the circumstances outlined above, and the following as well:

1) Suppose that aliens landed on earth and told you that they would destroy the planet if you didn't kill a small group of women and children.

2) Suppose that the women and children in question are themselves planning to destroy the planet and have the means to do so.

These may seem like far-fetched circumstances--but your claim is obviously that under no circumstance should women and children ever be deliberately killed. So you have to deal with them and show why we shouldn't kill those women and children.

In fact, I think that the circumstances I outlined at the top of this post justify it, though of all likely scenarios, they are the only ones that do.

Finally, realize that any reason you adduce for such an enterprise works equally against the United States, England, Israel, and assorted other Western Nations. When we rolled through Falluja and opened up with large caliber machine guns in neighborhoods we knew were populated with non-combatants, we were targetting women and children in exactly the same way that a bomber targets women and children. The point in either case is to inflict damage against a target perceived as doing you harm; that women and children happen to be present is secondary. Suppose someone has elected to blow up a bus. Do you think that they would abort this plan, if, on boarding the bus, they found it populated entirely by men?

I agree that women, children, and men ought to be able to live their lives without fear of being shot, stabbed, burned, blown up, run over, beaten, poisoned, driven from their land, or dispossesed in any way. But where one side has an overwhelming amount of power and they fail to exercise restraint thereof, and they commit such actions, what is left to the side that is victimized but to respond in kind?
I'm sorry.. to me your begining to sound like a terrorist sympathizer or appologist. Your rationalizing the targeting of innocent civillians. These are not millitary targets, they are woman and children at a cafe or theater.

Then we are a bigger and more savage animal.


Please show me 1 time in Iraq that we intentionally targeted innocent civilians for death......
 

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ashurbanipal said:
1) Suppose that aliens landed on earth and told you that they would destroy the planet if you didn't kill a small group of women and children.

2) Suppose that the women and children in question are themselves planning to destroy the planet and have the means to do so.
Nice. Combines a reduction to the absurd with an exercise in sophistry. Useless.
 

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We fund Saudi Arabia and they are known to grant amnisty to terrorists in fact one of Osama Bin Laden's right hand men was photographed at their airport with government security.

But all the conservatives say to this is "yeah well... they're coming around.":roll:

Talk about B.S.
 

F41

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Saboteur said:
We fund Saudi Arabia and they are known to grant amnisty to terrorists in fact one of Osama Bin Laden's right hand men was photographed at their airport with government security.

But all the conservatives say to this is "yeah well... they're coming around.":roll:

Talk about B.S.
I am one of the most Conservative as one can be and I feel Saudi Arabia should answer to the same rules as other countries who support terror of any form, so I would say your assessment is wrong...
 

Saboteur

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ThePhoenix said:
I am one of the most Conservative as one can be and I feel Saudi Arabia should answer to the same rules as other countries who support terror of any form, so I would say your assessment is wrong...

Unfortunately I am not wrong. Our government gave Saudi Arabia $1,000,000.00 last year and one of the terrorists in the post 9/11 video sitting next to Osama was granted amnisty and given medical attention at the same time. Congressman Weiner, Dem. NY (of all places) raised a propostion to cut their funding and put Saudi Arabia on the terrorist countires list. He had documentation and photographic evidence of the Saudi Government's actions but the guys in YOUR party said exactly what I quoted them as saying.

And you guys claim that the Democrats don't want to fight the war on terror.

Hypocrisy!
 

t125eagle

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ashurbanipal said:
Terrorism is a point of view--I think it's clear we ought to fund Hamas provided they use the funding to help the Palestinian people.
a point of view?? like one group sees them as terrorists while the other sees them as freedom fighters?? that wasnt even good in Ireland when the British were there. how can you say that!?? funding terrorism of any kind is never a good thing. and if you do, you can be assured that the money that goes "to the people" will be about 1% of the actual money given to them as the rest will either go to buying weapons or to line their own pockets!
 

F41

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I have come to the conclusion that the liberals persistent hostility toward those who are fighting this war shows whose side they are really on. I may not like what Saudi stands for on one side but they like Pakistan are doing something to help us in this fight and this in itself shows me they are better then most liberals. The way I see it liberals don't fully understand the importance this War on Terror, sometimes you have to use those you do not agree with, such as Saudi to help win. And they are helping America where liberals are hurting.

The Democrats have been waffling in this war and muddying the issues, They hve been creating doubt and confusion therefore weakening our position in international relations, and as Bush said; “Either you are with us or you are with the terrorists“. Liberal Dems show that they are for the latter.
 
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