Carrying on Campus: who stops me?

[joko104]

College campuses. No carry zone. Why? We have all heard the haggard excuses. They don't want to make it a shooting gallery right? Kids aren't safe with guns right? They can't be responsible. Never mind that is part of what going to college is about (responsibility...idk if anyone remembers that concept anymore).

But what stops me? I'm curious? Do they have metal detector on campus? What about the public transit that goes there? What stops people from crossing the street and going right in with a gun? Nothing right? An otherwise law abiding citizen could just stroll right into campus without being stopped.

So. What stops the criminal from doing it? Who stops them?

I've posted about this often. Around my daughter's university is basically a gang-rape zone because it is known the college kids are all unarmed. Even the women going in groups has not offered safety - it just means gang raping a group of women.

While there is a fairly decent set of campus police, as a turf battle they can not operate off campus.

My daughter did inquire of the campus police if they had within policy the ability to search a student without the student's consent. They told her they were strictly forbidden from searching students or their vehicles. She replied that was all she needs to know.

College campuses are rape zones. The practice of university administrations is simple - cover it up, minimize it, deny it, hope the woman leaves the college.

As for anyone coming in with a gun? Exactly nothing stops it whatsoever, other than the dorms may (or not) have a door checker and it required a card or code to get it - meaning just following someone in.

And despite campus security, there are rapes on campus by "outsiders" who know all the women MUST be unarmed.

Any my daughter's university is better than most. It does have a presence of ARMED security - many are ex police. It's a private rich-kids (mostly) college with a large percentage of rich kid students from other countries. (Dorm and tuition without a scholarship around $30K per year). So parents want to see ARMED security present. But a campus is BIG, they can't be everywhere, and they can't go off campus. MOST universities have little armed security - if any.

 

[joko104]

I tell my students (rifle instructor) there are three things we should each have as just the basics: a pocket knife, a carry permit, and a copy of the Constitution. I hand out pocket Constitutions at my shoots. They cost me $1 apiece and I am never sorry to have to order more. If I order 100 at a time the shipping is free.

I don't agree with the pocket knife, particularly for women. Strong pepper spray would be better. The odds are the knife would be used against her.

 

[joko104]

I wouldn't attend a college that did not allow me to protect myself or have the ability to protect me. As for the nutter, that is very rare and his family should have handled that just like taking away the car keys from crazy old grandpa. But being expelled from a college for carrying a legal weapon with a permit? Come on down to Georgia or Texas, I'm pretty sure you could hook up a scholarship for having the balls to exercise your rights in a nanny state. I know I would contribute. I have no interest in producing meek college graduates. We have enough sheep, what we need are citizens.

You'd be VERY hard pressed to find any college that allows firearms and even less likely to find a lesser expensive state college or university.

 

[joko104]

My graduate university allowed concealed carry on campus and there was never an issue one way or the other.

How long ago and where?

 

[Jerry]

College campuses. No carry zone. Why? We have all heard the haggard excuses. They don't want to make it a shooting gallery right? Kids aren't safe with guns right? They can't be responsible. Never mind that is part of what going to college is about (responsibility...idk if anyone remembers that concept anymore).

But what stops me? I'm curious? Do they have metal detector on campus? What about the public transit that goes there? What stops people from crossing the street and going right in with a gun? Nothing right? An otherwise law abiding citizen could just stroll right into campus without being stopped.

So. What stops the criminal from doing it? Who stops them?

If you're made, the cops will stop you. If your not made, and have to use your gun, you can go to prison for saving your life.

Nothing stops the criminal, schools are shooting galleries.

 

[Goshin]

If you're made, the cops will stop you. If your not made, and have to use your gun, you can go to prison for saving your life.

Nothing stops the criminal, schools are shooting galleries.

I, um, knew people who carried on campus in college. Was against policy; possibly/arguably illegal. Never made, never a problem.

There used to be (and maybe still is) a proviso in my state law that said you could not be charged for illegal carry if you'd used the gun in legit self-defense/defense of others.

 

[joko104]

School shooting are still very rare, but they make the press. Campuses are rape zones - and that never makes the news.

 

[Ikari]

How long ago and where?

A few years ago, Colorado State University. It's still legal.

 

[Jerry]

Campuses are rape zones -

Impossible. There is a law against rape, therefore it isn't possible to be raped, because there is a law on a book in some library somewhere.

 

[nota bene]

Yup... bear in mind, by the time they have CCW they're 21, so they've already had 3 years of semi-independent living to get some hard knocks, learn some things, and if they are still wildly irresponsible at 21 they've probably already flunked out of college anyway. Many do.

Yes, they do. Another fact that many returned vets are now on college campuses, and they often provide a steadying force, as do women who are non-traditional students.

 

[nota bene]

As for the nutter, that is very rare and his family should have handled that just like taking away the car keys from crazy old grandpa.

Sadly, the "nutters" aren't all that rare anymore. So many students are on medication, and even among those who aren't, so many have extremely poor impulse control.

 

[Goshin]

Sadly, the "nutters" aren't all that rare anymore. So many students are on medication, and even among those who aren't, so many have extremely poor impulse control.

Are we really raising a generation that, at 18-22yo, are STILL acting like impulsive teenagers, and are that heavily medicated?? That's more disturbing than school shootings.


When I got to college, the very first thing I noticed was a totally different social atmosphere from high school; much more serious, much more focused, much less BS and FAR less impulsive asshattery. Not to say there wasn't a certain amount of partying and stuff, but on the whole I found college students to act far more adult than HS'ers, even the college freshmen.

That was quite some time ago, of course...

 

[nota bene]

Yes, long ago even if it was only ten years ago. Now there are drunks who never went to bed who stagger into early classes and also those who pitch a toddler fit if they don't like a grade. They don't just argue; they throw a tantrum, and I've heard many profs wish aloud that every classroom had a call button. How sad is this?

 

[CRUE CAB]

College campuses. No carry zone. Why? We have all heard the haggard excuses. They don't want to make it a shooting gallery right? Kids aren't safe with guns right? They can't be responsible. Never mind that is part of what going to college is about (responsibility...idk if anyone remembers that concept anymore).

But what stops me? I'm curious? Do they have metal detector on campus? What about the public transit that goes there? What stops people from crossing the street and going right in with a gun? Nothing right? An otherwise law abiding citizen could just stroll right into campus without being stopped.

So. What stops the criminal from doing it? Who stops them?

There are criminals, then there are just plain mad men that are willing to shoot their way in to kill as many as possible.
A criminal is there to steal your car or TV, a mad man is there to kill. Period.
People that go on those shooting sprees usually dont have an exit plan, they plan on dying in the act.
So all the metal detectors in the world will not stop them.

 

[Goshin]

Yes, long ago even if it was only ten years ago. Now there are drunks who never went to bed who stagger into early classes and also those who pitch a toddler fit if they don't like a grade. They don't just argue; they throw a tantrum, and I've heard many profs wish aloud that every classroom had a call button. How sad is this?

Good grief. If that is the future leaders of America you're talking about, Western Civilization is ****ed and we have bigger worries than guns on campus.

 

[nota bene]

Yes, I am, and yes, we do. And these are the people who are going to be making medical decisions for us.

 

[Jerry]

As soon as we ask "why ban guns from schools" the instant response is "because irresponsible teens, parties, hormones, etc". That's an argument to ban handguns from teens, not schools.

I'm 35, a veteran, and have carry permits from a few different states. My info is ran through NICS on a daily basis because of those permits. Should I decide to take a few night classes held at a collage, I don't why I should have to disarm, especially since I'm not a part of said irresponsible teens going to parties etc.

 

[nota bene]

I don't see why adults with concealed-carry permits can't carry on campus.

Here is an overview by the National Conference of States Legislatures:

In 2013, at least 19 states introduced legislation to allow concealed carry on campus in some regard. Two bills passed, one in Kansas that allows concelaed [sic] carry generally and one in Arkansas that allows faculty to carry. The Kansas legislation creates a provision that colleges and universities cannot prohibit concealed carry unless a building has "adequate security measures," however, governing boards of the institutions may still request an exemption to prohibit for up to 4 years. Arkansas' bill allows faculty to carry, unless the governing board adopts a policy that expressly disallows faculty to carry.

On the other hand, recent shootings also have encouraged some legislators to strengthen existing firearm regulations. In 2013, 5 states introduced legislation to prohibit concealed carry weapons on campus. None of these have [sic] bills passed.

Guns on Campus: Overview

 

[AGENT J]

As soon as we ask "why ban guns from schools" the instant response is "because irresponsible teens, parties, hormones, etc". That's an argument to ban handguns from teens, not schools.

I'm 35, a veteran, and have carry permits from a few different states. My info is ran through NICS on a daily basis because of those permits. Should I decide to take a few night classes held at a collage, I don't why I should have to disarm, especially since I'm not a part of said irresponsible teens going to parties etc.

agreed its pretty simply logic for the most part

 

[Wiseone]

Impossible. There is a law against rape, therefore it isn't possible to be raped, because there is a law on a book in some library somewhere.

Where did this notion that all laws are meant to prevent crime come from, and that if a crime still occurs the law that makes that act a crime is worthless? I mean I get the argument that a mass shooter is not going to be stopped by any law making it illegal for him to do what he plans to do, ie take a gun onto a campus and shot people, both illegal acts. But no one is seriously arguing that we should make murder legal because murder laws don't prevent murder.

Two different things, we shouldn't compare the two. Some laws obviously exist to prevent crime or to prevent a more heinous act, but not all do.

 

[Jerry]

Where did this notion that all laws are meant to prevent crime come from[?]

It's called "voluntary compliance". When voluntary compliance isn't present, that's when you need enforcement, but there isn't any enforcement because placing armed guards in every school is impossible. What we end up with is no compliance and no enforcement, so the logical option to to allow people to defend themselves.

 

[blackjack50]

There are criminals, then there are just plain mad men that are willing to shoot their way in to kill as many as possible.
A criminal is there to steal your car or TV, a mad man is there to kill. Period.
People that go on those shooting sprees usually dont have an exit plan, they plan on dying in the act.
So all the metal detectors in the world will not stop them.

Well picture a campus like Arizona State, Ohio State, University if Florida, Florida State, and basically every other University in the country. You physically cannot put enough metal detectors out to detect everyone. Even trying to put them in every building is pointless. How many people carry laptops, phones, keys, etc. on to campus?

What actually sparked this was I recently visited a law school here in Florida. I still had my ID from when I was in school, so I just got on public transit and road right on to campus...despite not being a student, and I had a bag full of electronics (laptop, phone, mouse, and so on). Nobody stopped me. Nobody cared. Hell the driver didnt even look at my ID. Neither did the cop I asked directions from.

I mean there is no realistic security for a large public university.

 

[CRUE CAB]

Well picture a campus like Arizona State, Ohio State, University if Florida, Florida State, and basically every other University in the country. You physically cannot put enough metal detectors out to detect everyone. Even trying to put them in every building is pointless. How many people carry laptops, phones, keys, etc. on to campus?

What actually sparked this was I recently visited a law school here in Florida. I still had my ID from when I was in school, so I just got on public transit and road right on to campus...despite not being a student, and I had a bag full of electronics (laptop, phone, mouse, and so on). Nobody stopped me. Nobody cared. Hell the driver didnt even look at my ID. Neither did the cop I asked directions from.

I mean there is no realistic security for a large public university.

We dont live in a police state. I am the type person is is happier to be able to roam freely on campus than to feel like the long arm of the law is just inches from me all the time.

 

[Risky Thicket]

College campuses. No carry zone. Why? We have all heard the haggard excuses. They don't want to make it a shooting gallery right? Kids aren't safe with guns right? They can't be responsible. Never mind that is part of what going to college is about (responsibility...idk if anyone remembers that concept anymore).

But what stops me? I'm curious? Do they have metal detector on campus? What about the public transit that goes there? What stops people from crossing the street and going right in with a gun? Nothing right? An otherwise law abiding citizen could just stroll right into campus without being stopped.

So. What stops the criminal from doing it? Who stops them?

Criminals and crazies obviously have more common sense than college students. While criminals and crazies would never think of going onto the campus and shooting students your university is concerned about armed students crossing the street and threatening or shooting criminals and crazies off campus. It's called cover your ass and that is the ass your school administration is concerned about. They got their asses covered politically.

 

[blackjack50]

We dont live in a police state. I am the type person is is happier to be able to roam freely on campus than to feel like the long arm of the law is just inches from me all the time.

I feel the same way. I would rather be the one strapped tbh. I don't trust university cops really.