Carbon tax that aids both renewables and fracking

[Juggernaut]

We've had $4 gas and much higher business taxes than my plan and the sky didn't fall.

Right. But, 4$+ gas happened 10 years ago, pre-CAFE standards because everyone was driving gas guzzlers. Refineries were raking in profits, your plan causes 4$ gallon by taxation, not by demand. No profit = production cuts. Marginal refineries would shut down completely or at least shut down units and sell the intermediate products instead of finished products.

Some of the nations with the highest living standards have even higher carbon taxes.

Did those counties actually cut carbon emissions? Or, did they de facto outsource carbon intensive production to environmentally negligent countries? That is what I see happening if you don't add environmental regulations and auditing to free trade agreements.

Elon Musk thinks solar energy and the electrification of transportation (as electric engines are far more efficient) are going to be the market winners. Taxing carbon at their real cost that takes into account the hidden costs to society and lowering taxes elsewhere to offset this, which I think my plan does in lower taxes on the middle class and business, quickens the transition.

Musk applied first principle thinking How Elon Musk Thinks: The First Principles Method - 99U and cut the cost of manufacturing rockets to like 2% of their competition. When he was thinking about getting into the rocket business he ran the numbers on the raw material cost of a rocket and wondered why the finished product was so expensive and then went about figuring clever ways to manufacture it from scratch to do it in a much more efficient way. He didn't just say like most people this is how its been done forever so that is just the way it is or try to just slightly improve the established processes. Using first principle thinking Musk sees that “We have this handy fusion reactor in the sky called the sun. You don’t have to do anything, it just works—shows up every day and produces ridiculous amounts of power.” If you do the math with the efficiency of the best current solar panels and the total amount of energy the U.S. uses, it only takes a small corner of the Utah or Nevada desert covered with solar panels to provide all the U.S. energy needs. An area the size of Spain would power the world. When you run the raw material costs for solar panels and batteries needed that size of an area it is a tiny fraction of what we spend in a year in energy use, and the solar panels can last for decades and current lithium ion batteries 10 or 15 years and likely much longer in the future. When you look at the numbers it strongly suggests it is a no brainer that we should concentrate on developing solar. Not only because of sustainability and clean air and water, but long term cost.

That's all great, I hope Tesla comes out with a breakthrough that achieves a realistic off-grid home power system. I'll be in line to get one. But, Tesla's not there yet.

My family spends about $400 a month on the electric bill, and about another $400 on gas for the vehicles(I have no EVs). So about ten grand a year. Now visualize a roof top solar system, a battery in the garage(and driving an EV) that provides all the energy needs for the house and vehicles. Let's say you can buy this solar rooftop/battery set up for $35,000 from Tesla, at zero down, and it includes installation and a 25 yr warranty with the panels likely being good for decades more(with a replacement battery maybe needed in 15). In 3 1/2 years it basically pays for itself and then it is like free energy for house and vehicles for decades. Think of the freedom of being off grid. Don't have to worry about utility monopolies raising prices in the future. National security wise it is much better to have a grid of millions of solar roofs than large power plants that can be hacked or bombed. And obviously has benefits in a zombie apocalypse.

Believe it or not, Lousiana , through a Federal money mooching scheme cooked up by Bobby Jindal, is a hot bed of household solar system installation. From the price sheets I've seen, you estimate of $35,000 for an off grid system is unrealistic , that will get you into a decent grid-tied. I see Tesla offers a Powerwall battery BACKUP system rated at 6.5 KWH and don't offer a true supplemental power battery bank or inverter. The powerwall doesn't have enough power to dry a load of clothes much less charge a Tesla car. I live in an all electric 1400 ft^2 home w/central A/C. My peak months are August at 2200 kWh and January 2350 kWh, about 64 kWh per day. When I built my house, I got quotes for an off-grid, the salesperson laughed at me, the price tag came in north of $100,000 to supply my home. Whole house heat and A/C just devour electricity.

 

[laska]

Right. But, 4$+ gas happened 10 years ago, pre-CAFE standards because everyone was driving gas guzzlers. Refineries were raking in profits, your plan causes 4$ gallon by taxation, not by demand. No profit = production cuts. Marginal refineries would shut down completely or at least shut down units and sell the intermediate products instead of finished products.





Did those counties actually cut carbon emissions? Or, did they de facto outsource carbon intensive production to environmentally negligent countries? That is what I see happening if you don't add environmental regulations and auditing to free trade agreements.




That's all great, I hope Tesla comes out with a breakthrough that achieves a realistic off-grid home power system. I'll be in line to get one. But, Tesla's not there yet.




Believe it or not, Lousiana , through a Federal money mooching scheme cooked up by Bobby Jindal, is a hot bed of household solar system installation. From the price sheets I've seen, you estimate of $35,000 for an off grid system is unrealistic , that will get you into a decent grid-tied. I see Tesla offers a Powerwall battery BACKUP system rated at 6.5 KWH and don't offer a true supplemental power battery bank or inverter. The powerwall doesn't have enough power to dry a load of clothes much less charge a Tesla car. I live in an all electric 1400 ft^2 home w/central A/C. My peak months are August at 2200 kWh and January 2350 kWh, about 64 kWh per day. When I built my house, I got quotes for an off-grid, the salesperson laughed at me, the price tag came in north of $100,000 to supply my home. Whole house heat and A/C just devour electricity.

Solar City, which Tesla just bought, is the largest solar power company in the U.S. and they go in areas where they are cheaper than the local utilities. People pay zero down and then pay lower monthly bills than what they were paying. So it is working already for many, and the prices for the technology is dropping fast. The way to look at it is to visulaize the system it would take for your house and think can man manufacture it at a cost that works. If mankind's manufacturing can make a $35,000 car, as complex a piece of machinery as that is, don't you think it is easily possible to create the rooftop solar and battery at the same price that would fit the needs for your house in the very near future? First principles and the raw materials and complexity of engineering in the car is likely greater.