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Capitol Police officer Brian D. Sicknick suffered two strokes and died of natural causes

Being sprayed by bear spray by people in the commission of a felony is not a "natural cause" of death. We also do not know what other injuries and stresses he underwent that day while a crime was being committed.

On television shows if people committed a crime-for example robbery- and someone died, even by accident, they were charged with murder. Because they had been involved in a crime when the death occurred. I wonder if that is true in real life law and in The District. Because Brian Sicknick would not have died unless those criminals committed that crime.

Do not try to tell me it is natural to die by insurrection.
He didn't die from bear spray. They tried for months to make that connection, and weren't able to. In fact, breaking news from yesterday.... the people who attacked him didn't use bear spray at all, but pepper spray. Prosecutors again misleading.


This was a tragic death. Don't use it to try to score political points.
 
Not with bear spray, which is generally a different spray type and/or concentration. And some officers have reported having strokes after. Just because you have a stroke doesn't mean you will die from it. But it also doesn't mean a person can't die from a stroke brought on by some sort of pepper spray, stress, or a combination.

No bear spray used. It was pepper spray.
 
He didn't die from bear spray. They tried for months to make that connection, and weren't able to. In fact, breaking news from yesterday.... the people who attacked him didn't use bear spray at all, but pepper spray. Prosecutors again misleading.


This was a tragic death. Don't use it to try to score political points.
Do you really think I am trying to "score political points" because I say this man lost his life due to the insurrection? Saying that again and again and again is necessary. To deny the Republican lie.

And what is the difference whether terrorists used one poison or another? Pepper spray, bear spray, tear gas...they were all meant to harm the people working at the Capitol. Arguing that one is better than the other is like arguing whether it was better he was shot with a Glock or a Ruger.
 
Do you really think I am trying to "score political points" because I say this man lost his life due to the insurrection?
And what is the difference whether terrorists used one poison or another? Pepper spray, bear spray, tear gas...they were all meant to harm the people working at the Capitol. Arguing that one is better than the other is like arguing whether it was better he was shot with a Glock or a Ruger.
Yes. Given that he didn't.

First it was 'hit in the head with a fire extinguisher' then 'bear spray caused a reaction.' Turns out that this isn't true. He died of natural causes. The guy served in the police with honor. Don't use him as a prop.

The last line is silly. He wasn't shot. He wasn't bludgeoned with a fire extinguisher. He wasn't sprayed with bear spray. He was sprayed with pepper spray, which caused some irritation. But he died from natural causes - two strokes - later in the day..
 
Yes. Given that he didn't.

First it was 'hit in the head with a fire extinguisher' then 'bear spray caused a reaction.' Turns out that this isn't true. He died of natural causes. The guy served in the police with honor. Don't use him as a prop.

The last line is silly. He wasn't shot. He wasn't bludgeoned with a fire extinguisher. He wasn't sprayed with bear spray. He was sprayed with pepper spray, which caused some irritation. But he died from natural causes - two strokes - later in the day..
What a coincidence that right after he was attacked, he died.
 
What a coincidence that right after he was attacked, he died.
It is. And the government worked very hard to find evidence to the contrary.

It's possible that he had an underlying and unknown issue, and the stress of the day pushed him 'over the edge'. Unfortunately, that happens. However, it isn't murder, or the result of a specific action.
 
It is. And the government worked very hard to find evidence to the contrary.

It's possible that he had an underlying and unknown issue, and the stress of the day pushed him 'over the edge'. Unfortunately, that happens. However, it isn't murder, or the result of a specific action.
And pigs fly.
 
It is. And the government worked very hard to find evidence to the contrary.

It's possible that he had an underlying and unknown issue, and the stress of the day pushed him 'over the edge'. Unfortunately, that happens. However, it isn't murder, or the result of a specific action.
During the commission of a felony, that actually can be murder. It is called felony murder and it doesn't matter if there were underlying conditions. The person could have had multiple heart attacks before that day, but if they die of a natural cause, whether heart attack or stroke or whatever, during the commission of a felony it is argued that the stress from the events that occurred, the felony being committed at the very least contributed to their death.
 
During the commission of a felony, that actually can be murder. It is called felony murder and it doesn't matter if there were underlying conditions. The person could have had multiple heart attacks before that day, but if they die of a natural cause, whether heart attack or stroke or whatever, during the commission of a felony it is argued that the stress from the events that occurred, the felony being committed at the very least contributed to their death.
I'm familiar with felony murder. It would be a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG stretch in this situation, and as the article noted, there's not really any precedent for this situation. Plus, you would have to tie it to an individual or individuals, and tying a death by natural causes half a day later to hundreds (thousands) of people isn't reasonable.
 
I'm familiar with felony murder. It would be a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG stretch in this situation, and as the article noted, there's not really any precedent for this situation. Plus, you would have to tie it to an individual or individuals, and tying a death by natural causes half a day later to hundreds (thousands) of people isn't reasonable.
It isn't reasonable for the law to do so only because of the evidence being circumstantial. But it is not at all unreasonable for the public to see that his stroke was almost certainly caused by what happened that day, which means those who did invade the Capitol illegally, particularly those who fired bear spray at the officer, are responsible for his death, even if the law is unable to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

But people have been charged and convicted for felony murder for such cases, where a person had a heart attack (and strokes can be caused by stress the same way as heart attacks can) and died after the commission of a felony.

 
During the commission of a felony, that actually can be murder. It is called felony murder and it doesn't matter if there were underlying conditions. The person could have had multiple heart attacks before that day, but if they die of a natural cause, whether heart attack or stroke or whatever, during the commission of a felony it is argued that the stress from the events that occurred, the felony being committed at the very least contributed to their death.
I have asked myself some questions on this one.

Did the media intentionally mislead? Not sure. Was reporting inaccurate? Seems so. Is the media running the updated report. Yes.

Onto his death.

Would he have dropped dead on that day (without the riot" Probably not.
Did he have pre-existing conditions. Probably.

So if the stress from the rioters aggravated a pre exisiting conditon and he died as a result, I could see my way to charges. But who would you charge . Have no clue who you would charge.
 
I have asked myself some questions on this one.

Did the media intentionally mislead? Not sure. Was reporting inaccurate? Seems so. Is the media running the updated report. Yes.

Onto his death.

Would he have dropped dead on that day (without the riot" Probably not.
Did he have pre-existing conditions. Probably.

So if the stress from the rioters aggravated a pre exisiting conditon and he died as a result, I could see my way to charges. But who would you charge . Have no clue who you would charge.
I agree with this. One of the issues with felony murder is that it has normally been used against everyone involved in the felony. Most people would see it as unreasonable to charge everyone involved in this (hundreds, thousands possibly) with felony murder in this case, understandably. And while I could see them just charging the guys who shot them with bear spray, it would be difficult to argue that those specifically caused the death rather than the stress of the whole day combined, which would likely be enough doubt for those guys to be acquitted of that charge.

I honestly don't think we have enough evidence here to charge beyond a reasonable doubt. It is certainly possible they (prosecutors) could make a case against those with the bear spray, but I think chances of a conviction there are less than 50%. But I don't think it is unreasonable for the public to feel that those involved are responsible for the death (really for all 5 deaths, if the two heart attacks happened after the "storming" started), even if that doesn't necessarily mean a conviction of anyone for it.
 
And pepper spray can cause strokes too. But bear spray was said to have been used.


There are two people being charged with using bear spray.
The medical examiner said they investigated this possibility, but if there was a strong adverse reaction to any bear spray use there would have been inflammation. They found no evidence of that.
 
The medical examiner said they investigated this possibility, but if there was a strong adverse reaction to any bear spray use there would have been inflammation. They found no evidence of that.
The stress itself can cause a stroke, without any "adverse reaction". Inflammation would not be present for a stress induced stroke or heart attack.

You all are trying far too hard to completely remove all culpability here, when it is pretty evident that most of those who died here (if not all) would likely still be alive had they not stormed the Capitol that day.
 
It isn't reasonable for the law to do so only because of the evidence being circumstantial. But it is not at all unreasonable for the public to see that his stroke was almost certainly caused by what happened that day, which means those who did invade the Capitol illegally, particularly those who fired bear spray at the officer, are responsible for his death, even if the law is unable to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

But people have been charged and convicted for felony murder for such cases, where a person had a heart attack (and strokes can be caused by stress the same way as heart attacks can) and died after the commission of a felony.

Yes, after a specific act. Not in a situation like this.

And again - no one fired bear spray at the officer. Just normal pepper spray. Don't you find it incredible that officials lied about this?
 
I have asked myself some questions on this one.

Did the media intentionally mislead? Not sure. Was reporting inaccurate? Seems so. Is the media running the updated report. Yes.

Onto his death.

Would he have dropped dead on that day (without the riot" Probably not.
Did he have pre-existing conditions. Probably.

So if the stress from the rioters aggravated a pre exisiting conditon and he died as a result, I could see my way to charges. But who would you charge . Have no clue who you would charge.
It wasn't the media - it was the government. They promoted the fire extinguisher narrative, when none was involved. They delayed autopsy results for months, when they knew the physical findings. They kept misleading that it was bear spray - even calling it an 'unknown substance'. CNN reported the bear spay issue was just released in a hearing for the two defendants, and even then it was downplayed by prosecutors.
 
Yes, after a specific act. Not in a situation like this.

And again - no one fired bear spray at the officer. Just normal pepper spray. Don't you find it incredible that officials lied about this?
Because they had bear spray with them and intended to use it. So they appear to either have grabbed the wrong can from their bag or the one decided they should only use pepper spray at that time.


It still does not change the overall fact of the story that yes, pepper spray can cause strokes, and it doesn't have to be every time for the pepper spray to be the cause. Also, stress can cause strokes as well.
 
It wasn't the media - it was the government. They promoted the fire extinguisher narrative, when none was involved. They delayed autopsy results for months, when they knew the physical findings. They kept misleading that it was bear spray - even calling it an 'unknown substance'. CNN reported the bear spay issue was just released in a hearing for the two defendants, and even then it was downplayed by prosecutors.
Because they had bear spray on them and one of them says in a video they have to give him the bear spray shit, and the other one says "not yet". So they absolutely intended to use bear spray, but instead used pepper spray, which can still cause strokes.
 
Because they had bear spray with them and intended to use it. So they appear to either have grabbed the wrong can from their bag or the one decided they should only use pepper spray at that time.


It still does not change the overall fact of the story that yes, pepper spray can cause strokes, and it doesn't have to be every time for the pepper spray to be the cause. Also, stress can cause strokes as well.
Yes. Fire extinguisher - > Bear spray -> pepper spray changes the overall 'fact of the story'. Especially given that he died from natural causes. They lied. Repeatedly.
 
The stress itself can cause a stroke, without any "adverse reaction". Inflammation would not be present for a stress induced stroke or heart attack.

You all are trying far too hard to completely remove all culpability here, when it is pretty evident that most of those who died here (if not all) would likely still be alive had they not stormed the Capitol that day.
I'm not "trying far too hard to completely remove all culpability here." I'm just stating facts. We've gone from the man was beat to death with a fire extinguisher, to he died from a reaction to bear spray, and now he apparently died from stress. You've provided zero first-hand evidence of anything that supports your position. You're just posting conspiracy theories and then lashing out at people providing you with facts. These facts don't take away from the actual things that happened on 1/6. But, let's stick with reality.
 
Yes. Fire extinguisher - > Bear spray -> pepper spray changes the overall 'fact of the story'. Especially given that he died from natural causes. They lied. Repeatedly.
Fire extinguishers were used as weapons, just not against him. This was corrected once it was discovered that the mistake was made. The bear spray was present, and they have them saying they were going to use it. There was a path to the bear spray, it just turned out there is no evidence they used the bear spray rather than the regular pepper spray, and again, that was corrected when further info was found out. This is not "lying". It was making assumptions about an event with the info they had.

And, once again, someone can die from natural causes, a stroke or heart attack, and it still be caused by stressful events, such as responding to hundreds of people illegally storming Congress and/or being sprayed with pepper spray, even if they had previous experience with pepper spray for training.
 
I'm not "trying far too hard to completely remove all culpability here." I'm just stating facts. We've gone from the man was beat to death with a fire extinguisher, to he died from a reaction to bear spray, and now he apparently died from stress. You've provided zero first-hand evidence of anything that supports your position. You're just posting conspiracy theories and then lashing out at people providing you with facts. These facts don't take away from the actual things that happened on 1/6. But, let's stick with reality.
No. I'm providing plenty of evidence that most likely he died because of stress induced and/or pepper spray induced strokes. Had the events of 1/6 not occurred, he would likely not have died.

The bear spray was almost always reported as him having a stroke from it, not some other reaction to it. But that is possible with regular pepper spray as well, which he was sprayed with.
 
No. I'm providing plenty of evidence that most likely he died because of stress induced and/or pepper spray induced strokes. Had the events of 1/6 not occurred, he would likely not have died.
You're providing plenty of speculation. I think you should look up the difference.
 
You're providing plenty of speculation. I think you should look up the difference.
And claiming he likely had a preexisting condition is not speculation?

Many felony murder charges require speculation because many, especially all those where someone died of either a heart attack or stroke, involve the assumption that the person died due to stress from the illegal act, that their heart attack or stroke was caused by that act.
 
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