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Capitol assault a more sinister attack than first appeared

exoplanet

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From the AP:
Under battle flags bearing Donald Trump’s name, the Capitol’s attackers pinned a bloodied police officer in a doorway, his twisted face and screams captured on video. They mortally wounded another officer with a blunt weapon and body-slammed a third over a railing into the crowd.

“Hang Mike Pence!” the insurrectionists chanted as they pressed inside, beating police with pipes. They demanded House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s whereabouts, too. They hunted any and all lawmakers: “Where are they?” Outside, makeshift gallows stood, complete with sturdy wooden steps and the noose. Guns and pipe bombs had been stashed in the vicinity.

Only days later is the extent of the danger from one of the darkest episodes in American democracy coming into focus. The sinister nature of the assault has become evident, betraying the crowd as a force determined to occupy the inner sanctums of Congress and run down leaders — Trump’s vice president and the Democratic House speaker among them.
The more we learn about the attack, the more we realize how much more this was than an angry crowd. It looks like an organized bunch used the sheer numbers and anger of the crowd to their advantage to breach the Capitol's defenses. With President Trump promising to follow them, did they anticipate pardons for their actions, or that they had some kind of implicit permission? I'm pretty sure the QAnon bunch probably had that in their heads. If Trump refused to concede and told them the election wasn't legit, what legal options were left to them?
 

roguenuke

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From the AP:

The more we learn about the attack, the more we realize how much more this was than an angry crowd. It looks like an organized bunch used the sheer numbers and anger of the crowd to their advantage to breach the Capitol's defenses. With President Trump promising to follow them, did they anticipate pardons for their actions, or that they had some kind of implicit permission? I'm pretty sure the QAnon bunch probably had that in their heads. If Trump refused to concede and told them the election wasn't legit, what legal options were left to them?
The bolded is a key part that I think some either overlook or simply ignore. There were nutcases in this crowd who honestly believe things like "John McCain didn't die, he was tried and legally executed" (something I read a person on this board post). And somewhere close to 50% or more of Trump supporters believe in QAnon and/or see Q as a good thing (it's ridiculous).



I have FB friends who post things that say that "Trump didn't concede, he is just setting them up so they can incriminate themselves" or that Pelosi's laptop wasn't really stolen, but rather confiscated by "white hats".
 

TrumpVirus 2020

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I have FB friends who post things that say that "Trump didn't concede, he is just setting them up so they can incriminate themselves" or that Pelosi's laptop wasn't really stolen, but rather confiscated by "white hats".

I have a sister like that, can't really do much about her being my sister, but you may want to look into finding smarter friends...lol
 

roguenuke

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I have FB friends who post things that say that "Trump didn't concede, he is just setting them up so they can incriminate themselves" or that Pelosi's laptop wasn't really stolen, but rather confiscated by "white hats".

I have a sister like that, can't really do much about her being my sister, but you may want to look into finding smarter friends...lol
I do have smarter friends (although some of those who still want to claim Trump won are surprisingly fellow nukes), but generally I prefer to just snooze them.

To be clear, I snooze the not so smart friends (and have done so to some family) not the smarter friends.
 
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Demon

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From the AP:

The more we learn about the attack, the more we realize how much more this was than an angry crowd. It looks like an organized bunch used the sheer numbers and anger of the crowd to their advantage to breach the Capitol's defenses. With President Trump promising to follow them, did they anticipate pardons for their actions, or that they had some kind of implicit permission? I'm pretty sure the QAnon bunch probably had that in their heads. If Trump refused to concede and told them the election wasn't legit, what legal options were left to them?

Two capitol police officers suspended, one arrested.

 

exoplanet

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Two capitol police officers suspended, one arrested.

It's nice to see that these people have been located and held accountable in short order. It's probably not all of them, but maybe the rest will think twice about doing something again.
 

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It's nice to see that these people have been located and held accountable in short order. It's probably not all of them, but maybe the rest will think twice about doing something again.

And I heard that at least 15 more are under investigation. It'll be interesting to see what charges, if any, are brought.

Oh, and I read yesterday that at least 25 members of the military are under investigation.
 

exoplanet

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Oh, and I read yesterday that at least 25 members of the military are under investigation.
I believe you are referring to a story that got updated: some of those 25 people are military, it wasn't clear how many.
 

Demon

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I believe you are referring to a story that got updated: some of those 25 people are military, it wasn't clear how many.

Ah, didn't see the update. Although any would be a problem.
 

Antiwar

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The gallows was "makeshift"?!
----

What would it take for Trump supporters to get it? What would he have to do?
 

Demon

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The gallows was "makeshift"?!
----

What would it take for Trump supporters to get it? What would he have to do?

What, they couldn't find a manufactured gallows?
 

exoplanet

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The gallows was "makeshift"?!
It looked reasonably square and plumb. Sturdy enough to stand on, but iffy (IMHO) on its ability to support someone dangling by their neck.
What would it take for Trump supporters to get it? What would he have to do?
For the thousands there at his rally, it didn't take very much at all...
 

Antiwar

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It looked reasonably square and plumb. Sturdy enough to stand on, but iffy (IMHO) on its ability to support someone dangling by their neck.
...
It was at least ten feet tall. The top left connection looked bad. The "noose" looked thin and the knot didn't look like a knot.

It's said there was talk about using a tree.
 

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It was at least ten feet tall. The top left connection looked bad. The "noose" looked thin and the knot didn't look like a knot.

It's said there was talk about using a tree.
They had hung the one that they made using some wires from the broken camera equipment (they broke) over a tree.
 

roguenuke

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Indicates that they didn't intend to stage the gallows scene. Not planned, not premeditated.
Because everyone just has parts for a gallows with them when they come to protest at the Capitol, not planning to actually use those large pieces of wood or that random rope, just have it with them.
 
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Helix

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it was an insurrection.
 

Aristaeus

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If they managed to find Pence (and overcome his security detail), there's at least a 50/50 chance they actually would have carried out their threats and hung him.
 

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The made-for-media theatrics on Capitol Hill were not an attempted "coup". Coups are what the CIA stages all over the world. Neither was "democracy" in peril. What democracy? And Trump is no more than a caricature of a system of which Biden, Obama, Bush etc are the embodiment. (с)
 

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It's almost like decades and decades of talk radio and Republican media set them up and then opportunists and nut jobs used the dark recesses of the Internet to bring together the lowest of our society. The people your parents told you to stay away from when you were little kids.
 

HumblePi

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Two capitol police officers suspended, one arrested.


"Now is the time for peace and cooperation" -- NO, it is not the time for either.

People that caused death, destruction and insurrection against the United States must be punished no matter whether they're wearing a MAGA hat with flack jackets and camouflage, Buffalo horns, a police uniform or Dockers and hunting boots. If they're committing a crime against this country carrying a confederate flag, Nazi swastika, 'stop the steal', or a yellow 'don't tread on me' flag; if they're assaulting our country's Capitol and murdering policemen, they must be punished.

The problem in this country right at this moment is that we have no means to punish these insurrectionists as they should be punished. We'll put a hand over their head as they are gently put into the back of a squad car, exactly what Trump told police two years ago that they shouldn't do, "don't be so gentle". Well dammit, these men are the enemy, we don't love them we don't want them free to do it again and they should be treated as traitors to this country should be treated. If there's no attempt at deterring this behavior then what's stopping it going forward?

There have been firemen and police officers 'placed on leave' from departments in Florida, Seattle, New York, Virginia and other states that took part in this assault on democracy. They need to be made an example of in order to show the country that men who took an oath to this country will be punished severely if they dare to so brazenly defy that oath. Law officers that have been directly involved in the insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, should be arrested not just terminated from their job. If you release a cockroach it will just scurry off to find somewhere else to live. Heavy prison terms are what these traitors and insurrectionists deserve, nothing less. People are sitting in prison today because for far less serious charges.
 

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The made-for-media theatrics on Capitol Hill were not an attempted "coup". Coups are what the CIA stages all over the world. Neither was "democracy" in peril. What democracy? And Trump is no more than a caricature of a system of which Biden, Obama, Bush etc are the embodiment. (с)
They beat a cop to death with a fire extinguisher. Just theatrics? Seriously?
 

Ringo Stalin

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They beat a cop to death with a fire extinguisher. Just theatrics? Seriously?
Seriously?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! About 90 cops were brutally killed in 2014 in Kiev during revolt, but US media called those murderous "protesters" fighters for democracy. Your hypocrisy is disgusting.
Most striking is the toothless position of the Russian Foreign Ministry - instead of publicly noting every case of totalitarianism in the United States, so that the State Department in the future is afraid to even blurt out about "noble rebels" and "moderate terrorists", MGIMO graduates expect that American politicians will change for the better.
 
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