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Capitalism is not compatible with democracy. (1 Viewer)

Many people believe capitalism and democracy are consistent, but the truth is that they are entirely antagonistic to each other. To see why, let's first consider socialism and democracy. Woodrow Wilson, who was a progenitor of the progressive movement, found socialism and democracy to be inseparable:

Roundly described, socialism is a proposition that every community, by means of whatever forms of organization may be most effective for the purpose, see to it for itself that each one of its members finds the employment for which he is best suited and is rewarded according to his diligence and merit, all proper surroundings of moral influence being secured to him by the public authority.

That's the socialist dream right there. He continues:

‘State socialism’ is willing to act though state authority as it is at present organized. It proposes that all idea of a limitation of public authority by individual rights be put out of view, and that the State consider itself bound to stop only at what is unwise or futile in its universal superintendence alike of individual and of public interests. The thesis of the states socialist is, that no line can be drawn between private and public affairs which the State may not cross at will.

No limit on government power, which is basically what all leftists want. Here's the money quote:

Applied in a democratic state, such doctrine sounds radical, but not revolutionary. It is only an acceptance of the extremest logical conclusions deducible from democratic principles long ago received as respectable. For it is very clear that in fundamental theory socialism and democracy are almost if not quite one and the same. They both rest at bottom upon the absolute right of the community to determine its own destiny and that of its members. Men as communities are supreme over men as individuals.

Another way to put would be, "The common interest before self-interest".

This is really what socialism is all about. What's good for the group takes priority over individual rights, and individual rights always come down to specific property rights.

Now let's consider capitalism, where the individual is supreme, and the community can go f itself.

Capitalism is predicated on private ownership, which means it is based on property rights, yet the only way a democratic state can exist is by violating property rights. How can an entity which relies on a form of extortion in order to fund itself in any way be consistent with capitalism? Virtually anything the state does violates property rights in one way or another.

Because of socialism's mile-long track record of failure, many moderate leftists support "regulated capitalism" instead of socialism. Of course the term "regulated capitalism" is nothing but a euphemism for economic fascism where "private" ownership is permitted, but virtually all economic activity is taxed and regulated by the state. The economy Mussolini created was a progressive wet dream.

To summarize, Wilson was correct: democracy and socialism go hand in hand, while democracy and capitalism have nothing in common.
 
Nope. When it comes to the debate you're having with Aoc', you're getting beaten like a rented mule with a collision damage waiver.

You mean, 'aoc-is-wun-dum-ho'. Combined with your adoration of a raging sociopath like Friedman, you're batting a thousand.
 
You mean, 'aoc-is-wun-dum-ho'. Combined with your adoration of a raging sociopath like Friedman, you're batting a thousand.

Look, you're having a bad day here, but that's no reason to become unhinged. But yes, when it comes to economics and well reasoned debate, I have a great deal more admiration for Friedman than I do you. Don't feel bad, though. I admire him more than I do most people.
 
Look, you're having a bad day here, but that's no reason to become unhinged. But yes, when it comes to economics and well reasoned debate, I have a great deal more admiration for Friedman than I do you. Don't feel bad, though. I admire him more than I do most people.

Not sure at which point I've become unhinged. I seem to be calmly dismantling your and your friend with ease. But you're right -- we're never going to see eye-to-eye on reality. You live in a world where Friedman is the hero, where Ayn Rand is a great person, and where FDR is the villain who ruined capitalism. I think that's lunacy and borderline insane asylum talk, you think it's a sensical opinion. Who can say who is right? You have Friedman and aociswundumho to back you, I have everyone else.

The fact that Trump is the conclusion to Friedman's neoliberalism doesn't help your case, but hey, we all live in our own worlds. 🤷‍♂️
 
Which economic system, in your estimation, provides a higher standard of living for its people?
Well regulated capitalism without a doubt. Combining capitalism with a strong rule of law goes a long way to mitigate many of the failings of pure capitalism. Without the rule of law capitalism becomes so corrupt that it turns into a criminal enterprise.
 
Well regulated capitalism without a doubt. Combining capitalism with a strong rule of law goes a long way to mitigate many of the failings of pure capitalism. Without the rule of law capitalism becomes so corrupt that it turns into a criminal enterprise.

Even with a measure of rules and regulation, capitalism inevitably breaks down into fascism. We're seeing this now, just as we've seen it in the past. It's not just criminal or corrupt. Quality of life is going down in America, it's not going up. There's a point at which capitalism can work... like just after an economic apocalypse and is bailed out, FDR-style, by leftist policies. It will work for decades, with everyone's quality of life increasing, increasing... until those who have reaped the most benefit from this system try to destroy it from within. Why? For profit. For money and power. Short-term gain. Eventually it becomes like a flesh-eating virus. You have to start amputating limbs.

The only thing that can sustain capitalism is socialism. And it requires a massive dose.

By the way, it's not just America. Every nation that has been touched by neoliberalism has been trying to pushback right-wing fascism. This is the end result of the neoliberal Milton Friedman project. America is a declining power because it could not protect capitalism from itself.
 
Well regulated capitalism describes the healthcare market and the housing market, and both of them are shit.
Healthcare is best provided by the State. They can use the economics of scale to keep costs under control. The housing market is strictly supply and demand controlled and is subject to wild swings in the economy. You really don't like capitalism.
 
Amazing has stopped saving / archived your purchases.
More profits and a finger! Same with saving a game for an hour.
 
Healthcare is best provided by the State. They can use the economics of scale to keep costs under control.

Then why can't the state provide food? Food is more important than healthcare, and those collective farms and government-run grocery stores would have the biggest selection and lowest prices you've ever seen.

The housing market is strictly supply and demand controlled and is subject to wild swings in the economy. You really don't like capitalism.

Yes, and the idiot government is doing everything it can to restrict the supply of housing. Planning and zoning laws, environmental bullshit, giving power to nimbys, strict building codes, minimal lot sizes and a lot more all restrict the supply of housing which makes the prices go up and up.
 
Then why can't the state provide food? Food is more important than healthcare, and those collective farms and government-run grocery stores would have the biggest selection and lowest prices you've ever seen.



Yes, and the idiot government is doing everything it can to restrict the supply of housing. Planning and zoning laws, environmental bullshit, giving power to nimbys, strict building codes, minimal lot sizes and a lot more all restrict the supply of housing which makes the prices go up and up.
LOL Food is supplied by our govt. to those that need it and that is why Healthcare should be too. Zoning, building codes and environmental laws are needed to protect the people from the unscrupulous who will build houses that fall down or poison our air and water. You cannot assume that all people are good.
 
Well regulated capitalism describes the healthcare market and the housing market, and both of them are shit.

Why would anyone participate in unregulated capitalism? If not for the poor, where would the profit come from?
 
Why does capitalism need democracy?

Because you need people to extract the profit from. Otherwise it's just a monarchy and a form of feudalism and not capitalism. Do you know how anything works?
 


This is what unregulated capitalism produces, if we're lucky. The rich, having utterly destroyed capitalism from within, resort to end-times breeding campaigns and prepare to hunker down in the techno-feudalist fortress states with their plundered resources as the world enters the apocalypse. Guess who agrees? Milton Friedman's grandson, who is one of these weirdo anarch-capitalist libertarian freaks.
 
This is what unregulated capitalism produces, if we're lucky.

This is what Dans considers unregulated capitalism:

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Milton Friedman's grandson, who is one of these weirdo anarch-capitalist libertarian freaks.

You must mean Patri. He's been working on creating private cities, which are coming whether you like it or not.
 
This is what Dans considers unregulated capitalism:

What do those numbers mean in practical terms? Break them down for me.

You must mean Patri. He's been working on creating private cities, which are coming whether you like it or not.

Do you think they'll let you into their post-America bunker?
 
It means your claim about "unregulated capitalism" is bullshit.

I said previously that American Capitalism has some regulations, just not enough to keep it from cannibalizing itself. Unregulated capitalism would be the end point. You start with FDR, then you end with Trump.
 
I'm done with anything Nascar / Vegas has going on together.

 

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