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Candidate proposes prison dorms for welfare recipients

harrytruman

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Carl Paladino, the conservative Republican candidate for governor of New York, is proposing that prisons be used as dormitories for welfare recipients. He says staying there would be voluntary (thank goodness!) but they would be able to work in state-sponsored jobs and receive training....including lessons in personal hygiene.
Some say there's a decent idea in there, except for the fact that Paladino pretty much dehumanizes poor people:
Pride, prejudice and Mr. Paladino - Times Union
Others are just glad he's still in the race, because it would be pretty dull without him:
SkunkPost.com || Carl Paladino: the gift that keeps on giving
 

tacomancer

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I wasn't aware that NY didn't have a prison overcrowding problem. There seems to be plenty of articles about it on google.
 

Ockham

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I like the intent and idea ... but does it have to be in a jail? The optics of that are ripe ... and ill advised. That they'll get to work, get training and job skills is a great idea though. Hopefully participation will be mandatory but staying at the former jail "optional".
 

tacomancer

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I like the intent and idea ... but does it have to be in a jail? The optics of that are ripe ... and ill advised. That they'll get to work, get training and job skills is a great idea though. Hopefully participation will be mandatory but staying at the former jail "optional".
I think the usage of jails was for the publicity it would no doubt cause. Plus it helps to stir up feelings of the inferiority of the "other".

However, the basic idea is one of poor houses and projects. Neither have been shown to work.
 

Ockham

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I think the usage of jails was for the publicity it would no doubt cause. Plus it helps to stir up feelings of the inferiority of the "other".

However, the basic idea is one of poor houses and projects. Neither have been shown to work.
I thought this is more of a "workfare" program, which as I remember and found to validate, did seem to work.

IS WORKFARE THE ANSWER? The five-year-old experimental programs have saved the government money and given welfare mothers new hope and self-respect. But as encouraging as the results have been, more work is needed before workfare is declared national
 

phattonez

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I think the usage of jails was for the publicity it would no doubt cause. Plus it helps to stir up feelings of the inferiority of the "other".

However, the basic idea is one of poor houses and projects. Neither have been shown to work.
What about the workhouse system?
 

phattonez

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If you are referring to this Workhouse - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, than its something that was tried and shown not to work. I used the term poorhouse, but this is what I was referring to.
I can't find any evidence either way about the efficacy of the system. Do you have a link?

Personally I'd support workfare to reduce abuse of welfare. I'd also support food stamps and other benefits only being able to be used for certain things so that it cannot ever be used frivolously (like to buy TV's or other luxuries).
 
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tacomancer

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I can't find any evidence either way about the efficacy of the system. Do you have a link?

Personally I'd support workfare to reduce abuse of welfare. I'd also support food stamps and other benefits only being able to be used for certain things so that it cannot ever be used frivolously (like to buy TV's or other luxuries).
I had a few articles on my home computer. I will try to remember to dig them up tonight. Keep in mind though, this is where stories like Oliver Twist came from.

I think workfare is a great idea, but the common accomidations part (where the living place is provided rather than them paying for it as a part of their salary) leads to an increased concentration of people reinforcing each other with bad habits. But yeah, the whole point of welfare should be aimed at getting people off welfare and into a real life.

Edit;
Heres a few
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/
http://www.institutions.org.uk/workhouses/england/england.htm
http://www.history.ac.uk/resources/e-seminars/munck-paper
 
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phattonez

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I had a few articles on my home computer. I will try to remember to dig them up tonight. Keep in mind though, this is where stories like Oliver Twist came from.
I know that, but it doesn't say anything about the effectiveness of the system either.

I think workfare is a great idea, but the common accomidations part (where the living place is provided rather than them paying for it as a part of their salary) leads to an increased concentration of people reinforcing each other with bad habits. But yeah, the whole point of welfare should be aimed at getting people off welfare and into a real life.
I don't think that the common accomodatios part is necessary. Just make people work for the welfare if they are able to.
 

tacomancer

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I know that, but it doesn't say anything about the effectiveness of the system either.
I guess to me it does. It sucks to be poor and these places should not be palaces by any means, but people should not be exploited either.

I don't think that the common accomodatios part is necessary. Just make people work for the welfare if they are able to.
I completely agree.
 

Orion

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Smells of crony capitalism to me. The prison system is already bloated because the penitentiaries are being fed convicts at higher rates than any other western nation. Now they propose sending welfare recipients there to do work as well. What a ****ty idea.
 

Crunch

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I wasn't aware that NY didn't have a prison overcrowding problem. There seems to be plenty of articles about it on google.
FYI...

As of Tuesday afternoon, New York State had about 5,000 empty beds in its 67 prisons. Even if the state weren’t flat broke, this would be an expensive proposition. Just turning on the lights in the morning costs money. Correction officers must be on duty 24 hours a day, year round, even when there are only a handful of inmates to watch.

Take, for example, three prisons in the northern reaches of the state, near the Canadian border. In a count taken Dec. 31, a prison in Lyon Mountain had 91 employees and 135 inmates. The Ogdensburg Correctional Facility had 287 employees and 474 inmates. The minimum security portion of a complex in Red Creek had a staff of 67 for a grand total of 71 inmates.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/17/nyregion/17about.html
 

Crunch

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Smells of crony capitalism to me. The prison system is already bloated because the penitentiaries are being fed convicts at higher rates than any other western nation. Now they propose sending welfare recipients there to do work as well. What a ****ty idea.
This is the idea without the liberal spin to it.

Today New York State correctional facilities are under utilized; many have called for closing underused prisons. In fact, New York State can achieve great savings if we redevelop and repurpose half-empty minimum-security correctional facilities.

Ship out the prisoners to consolidated correctional facilities. Tear down the fences, barbed wire and other confinement construction. Upgrade the facility and you have a property that could easily be redeveloped as open and comfortable Dignity Corps campuses in beautiful New York State settings.
Paladino for the People : Carl Paladino for Governor of New York

What a mean bastard.
 

phattonez

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Instead of taking welfare recipients since they are underutilized, they should take some of California's prisoners, although the trip there sounds like Con Air. Make sure Nicholas Cage is on that plane.
 

tacomancer

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Instead of taking welfare recipients since they are underutilized, they should take some of California's prisoners, although the trip there sounds like Con Air. Make sure Nicholas Cage is on that plane.
I don't think California could afford to pay them.
 

phattonez

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I don't think California could afford to pay them.
California doesn't have the money to pay the guy on the off-ramp for a sack of oranges, but hey we're going to build a high speed rail system!
 

Deuce

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California doesn't have the money to pay the guy on the off-ramp for a sack of oranges, but hey we're going to build a high speed rail system!
Maybe if you guys would stop using referendums to vote in expensive services while using those same votes to deny the tax increases necessary to pay for them :D
 

UtahBill

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Warehousing the poor is not workable. Workfare isn't either, unless you have something for them to do, which might displace government employees who clean up parks, roads, etc.
How about using govt owned buildings, including former military bases, to create campuses where the poor can be educated and trained as needed. If education and work skills are not the issue, assuming we start creating jobs, then maybe a kick in the butt is what is needed.
Several of my own siblings, and their children, could benefit from the training, or the boot in the ass....
 

Vader

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Carl Paladino, the conservative Republican candidate for governor of New York, is proposing that prisons be used as dormitories for welfare recipients. He says staying there would be voluntary (thank goodness!) but they would be able to work in state-sponsored jobs and receive training....including lessons in personal hygiene.
Some say there's a decent idea in there, except for the fact that Paladino pretty much dehumanizes poor people:
Pride, prejudice and Mr. Paladino - Times Union
Others are just glad he's still in the race, because it would be pretty dull without him:
SkunkPost.com || Carl Paladino: the gift that keeps on giving
Paladino is a nazi who needs to be removed from the race and banned from politics.
 

VanceMack

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Warehousing the poor is not workable. Workfare isn't either, unless you have something for them to do, which might displace government employees who clean up parks, roads, etc.
How about using govt owned buildings, including former military bases, to create campuses where the poor can be educated and trained as needed. If education and work skills are not the issue, assuming we start creating jobs, then maybe a kick in the butt is what is needed.
Several of my own siblings, and their children, could benefit from the training, or the boot in the ass....
There are certainly assets that could be put to use. As it is, in virtually every state the mental health systems are overwhelmed housing indigents who have learned that all they need to say to get three hots and a cot is gee...Im suicidal. Which means for those that truly need the mental health beds, they simply arent available.

Housing with a purpose isnt a bad idea...especially if it comes with a check up, training, and employee assistance while those individuals are drawings checks. Even Roosevelt recognized that welfare by itself would sap the will of the individual.

A downside to the warehouse type housing system is that it tends to put vulnerable people in a place where others have a tendency to prey on them.
 

VanceMack

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Paladino is a nazi who needs to be removed from the race and banned from politics.
I keep getting this image of you in Pink Floyds "The Wall" movie. Im not sure...but I think you may actually see more Nazis than Glenn Beck!
 
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