Can You Know God?

[Mulefoot]

I think the OP is referring generally to knowing a god. Christianity is not special in that regard, nor does it have any exclusive claim to a different kind of knowing. So it is you who is equivocating on the word know.

Oh ok, then yes.

 

[Overitall]

It's odd how a supposedly "perfect" being can create imperfect things.

The Matrix anyone?

Matrix was my favorite movie!

What is "perfection"? How does it apply to God?

 

[Gordy327]

Matrix was my favorite movie!

What is "perfection"? How does it apply to God?

The original Matrix was awesome. The new one, not so much.
"Perfection" is often applied to God. But then, how do we define god?

 

[Overitall]

The original Matrix was awesome. The new one, not so much.

I think I might have watched it about twenty times. I thought it was the most original concept for a movie I've ever seen.

"Perfection" is often applied to God. But then, how do we define god?

Well, that question depends on who you ask. People grapple with defining a god so unless you can do that how can you define perfection. In some way a god might not be perfect. If that is true then one can't expect an imperfect god to create a perfect human being. However, a perfect god is not obligated to create a perfect human. That would amount to Ford being obligated to create a car that never ran out of gas. Why?

 

[Gordy327]

I think I might have watched it about twenty times. I thought it was the most original concept for a movie I've ever seen

It never get old. It still holds up well today. And how hot was Carrie Ann Moss in that leather outfit?

.Well, that question depends on who you ask. People grapple with defining a god so unless you can do that how can you define perfection. In some way a god might not be perfect. If that is true then one can't expect an imperfect god to create a perfect human being. However, a perfect god is not obligated to create a perfect human. That would amount to Ford being obligated to create a car that never ran out of gas. Why?

Funny how people cannot seem to a come to a consensus as to the definition of god or what constitutes "perfection."

 

[Overitall]

It never get old. It still holds up well today. And how hot was Carrie Ann Moss in that leather outfit?


Funny how people cannot seem to a come to a consensus as to the definition of god or what constitutes "perfection."

Casting Moss was brilliant!

I suppose it's a personal thing. Whatever each individual needs to establish a relationship with their god is all that matters. I'm just trying to figure out how strong the argument against God's perfection is on the basis of man's imperfection if they can't first define what perfection is. Like what exactly is the complaint?

 

[mrjurrs]

Imo, those who believe do the best they can to understand and follow the tenets of their religions based on the relevant holy text. Their knowledge of their god is dependent on the text and whatever interpretations are made. Thus, they are able to know their god in a limited way. To wholly know and understand a divine entity would be, imo, out of the realm of possibility for mere mortals.

You have nailed one of my biggest problems with organized religion. Religious people who's words do not match their deeds. Imo their knowledge of god is based on what benefits them the most. Why are so many American religious people so against immigrants and the poor?

 

[Gordy327]

Casting Moss was brilliant!

She was good in the role. Real bad-ass. But then, the casting as a whole was well done. Who better to be Agent Smith than Hugo Weaving? A subtle, but menacing performance at the same time.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

You have nailed one of my biggest problems with organized religion. Religious people who's words do not match their deeds. Imo their knowledge of god is based on what benefits them the most. Why are so many American religious people so against immigrants and the poor?

Because in this day and age, "prosperity gospel" preached by Dominionists tells them that the reason for poverty is because "the poor are wicked" and that their God smiles upon the wealthy. And as for the atheists, they think they have that all figured out, too.



Actually, that doesn't seem too bad.

 

[Gordy327]

Because in this day and age, "prosperity gospel" preached by Dominionists tells them that the reason for poverty is because "the poor are wicked" and that their God smiles upon the wealthy. And as for the atheists, they think they have that all figured out, too.

View attachment 67389477

Actually, that doesn't seem too bad.

I'm not seeing a problem with that kind of world. Pet raptors? Hells yes! But those might be difficult to come by.

 

[Lisa]

Because in this day and age, "prosperity gospel" preached by Dominionists tells them that the reason for poverty is because "the poor are wicked" and that their God smiles upon the wealthy. And as for the atheists, they think they have that all figured out, too.

View attachment 67389477

Actually, that doesn't seem too bad.

That's not my preferred lingerie, but I guess it works. I hate maribou slippers. Pet raptors would be fun, as long as they don't chase cats and I didn't have to buy their food.

I do like thee pink roses.



BTW, How can you know god if there is no objective evidence of god existing? Trying to know what you cant prove exists sounds a bit too much like a group self-delusion for my taste.

 

[Overitall]

That's not my preferred lingerie, but I guess it works. I hate maribou slippers. Pet raptors would be fun, as long as they don't chase cats and I didn't have to buy their food.

I do like thee pink roses.



BTW, How can you know god if there is no objective evidence of god existing? Trying to know what you cant prove exists sounds a bit too much like a group self-delusion for my taste.

You can always get to know someone via word of mouth. There are many orphans in the world that might not be able to prove their parent(s) existed, but that doesn't mean they can't feel like they know them through the words of others.

 

[Lisa]

You can always get to know someone via word of mouth. There are many orphans in the world that might not be able to prove their parent(s) existed, but that doesn't mean they can't feel like they know them through the words of others.

That is propaganda and not fact. There is absolutely no evidence of a sentient creator existing.

Orphans had parents because humans are created by sex. The idea that their parents might not have been who raised them is beside the point. My own mother was a religious psychopath and didn't want me.

 

[Overitall]

That is propaganda and not fact. There is absolutely no evidence of a sentient creator existing.

Orphans had parents because humans are created by sex. The idea that their parents might not have been who raised them is beside the point. My own mother was a religious psychopath and didn't want me.

Of course I can say I had parents (if I was an orphan) but I'd be hard pressed to prove any specific humans were my parents. Dig up their bones and do a DNA? What if their ashes were scattered in the wind? Despite this I could still know them from the words of others. Just would have to believe them.

 

[The Mark]

Can you “know” god? Or know what god thinks and wants?

Can reading and studying one book, written/edited by fallible men thousands of years ago, mostly unknown fallible men, help you to actually “know“ god?

If a Muslim says yes then is the Koran the book to read?

Simply because you “read and study” a book (written by anonymous, regular, fallible humans), what makes you think you can “know” a supernatural entity and it’s thoughts/desires?

An analogy to ponder:
You can read about how to fly a plane.
Spend decades reading and studying about how to fly airplanes.
Does simply reading about it make you a pilot?

Not a perfect analogy - if you read and studied all the controls and what they did and all that stuff, it would potentially help you fly a plane even if you never had before.

I tend to think "knowing god" is more "believing god".

I don't think we can scientifically prove that the various written books claiming to be guides to belief in one or more deities are accurate, so it all boils down to belief.
Sure you could study the books, but they don't prove a thing IMO.

 

[Lisa]

Of course I can say I had parents (if I was an orphan) but I'd be hard pressed to prove any specific humans were my parents. Dig up their bones and do a DNA? What if their ashes were scattered in the wind? Despite this I could still know them from the words of others. Just would have to believe them.

The words of others claiming to prove or know god are not proof of anything, except your lack of critical thinking skills. We call those people apologists. They aren't facts.

I understand that you want to believe in god but there is no evidence of a God that doesn't rely on religious faith and belief to support it. That is not an objective fact, no matter how hard you believe it.

 

[Overitall]

The words of others claiming to prove or know god are not proof of anything, except your lack of critical thinking skills. We call those people apologists. They aren't facts.

I understand that you want to believe in god but there is no evidence of a God that doesn't rely on religious faith and belief to support it. That is not an objective fact, no matter how hard you believe it.

Ahh, objective facts you say! If the testimony is coming from someone else it is objective. It's just a matter of how far removed from the actual evidence it is.

 

[Lisa]

Ahh, objective facts you say! If the testimony is coming from someone else it is objective. It's just a matter of how far removed from the actual evidence it is.

Word of mouth isn't objective unless it is testable by a 3rd party. The bible is certainly not evidence.

 

[Overitall]

Word of mouth isn't objective unless it is testable by a 3rd party. The bible is certainly not evidence.

Then I guess neither one of us will ever be able to prove George Washington ever lived if we can't trust word of mouth.

 

[Lisa]

Then I guess neither one of us will ever be able to prove George Washington ever lived if we can't trust word of mouth.

We have his home, his writings, and 3rd party evidence. Unlike Jesus or god.

Plus a buried body and DNA

 

[Overitall]

We have his home, his writings, and 3rd party evidence. Unlike Jesus or god.

Prove that was his home right after you prove he existed. No fair using the words of historians.

 

[Lisa]

Prove that was his home right after you prove he existed. No fair using the words of historians.

Tombs

Visit the final resting place of George and Martha Washington.

www.mountvernon.org

 

[Overitall]

Tombs

Visit the final resting place of George and Martha Washington.

www.mountvernon.org

So someone stuck a plaque on a grave and said it was George Washington's. That's your proof?

 

[Lisa]

So someone stuck a plaque on a grave and said it was George Washington's. That's your proof?

Is that claim sincerely the best that you can do? You do have any evidence that George and Martha aren't buried there?

 

[Overitall]

Is that claim sincerely the best that you can do? You do have any evidence that George and Martha aren't buried there?

You're stuck aren't you.