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Can You Know God?

You can only "know" god as a fictional character in religious stories.
 
Is the the OP talking about God, Allah, infinite truth, the universe, a force greater than us, love, etc.?
 
Dragonfly said:
Can you “know” god? Or know what god thinks and wants?

Can reading and studying one book, written/edited by fallible men thousands of years ago, mostly unknown fallible men, help you to actually “know“ god?

If a Muslim says yes then is the Koran the book to read?

Simply because you “read and study” a book (written by anonymous, regular, fallible humans), what makes you think you can “know” a supernatural entity and it’s thoughts/desires?

An analogy to ponder:
You can read about how to fly a plane.
Spend decades reading and studying about how to fly airplanes.
Does simply reading about it make you a pilot?
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You can't know God from a book because he's beyond the physichal world. The only way to understand the Monad and peak through the boundaries of our prison is to find gnosis.
 
joluoto said:
You can't know God from a book because he's beyond the physichal world. The only way to understand the Monad and peak through the boundaries of our prison is to find gnosis.
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What exactly does that mean? How does one know one knows?
 
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Elora said:
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And, how do you know that is the truth? Why should anybody pay attention to the opinion of the person who wrote the pseudo-graphical book 1 Timothy ?
 
Atheists telling theists what theists know is kinda neat.
 
Mulefoot said:
Atheists telling theists what theists know is kinda neat.
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News Flash and Pro-Tip:

Most atheists were once theists.
Most atheists come from theistic families.
Most atheists live in theistic communities and countries.
Many atheists know far more about theism than many "theists".

So try again please...
 
Dragonfly said:
News Flash and Pro-Tip:

Most atheists were once theists.
Most atheists come from theistic families.
Most atheists live in theistic communities and countries.
Many atheists know far more about theism than many "theists".

So try again please...
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Actually, the Bible says different...

“How long will you inexperienced ones love inexperience?
How long will you ridiculers take pleasure in ridicule?
And how long will you foolish ones hate knowledge?" Proverbs 1:22

"Like a dog that returns to its vomit,
The stupid one repeats his foolishness." Proverbs 26:11
 
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Dragonfly said:
News Flash and Pro-Tip:

Most atheists were once theists.
Most atheists come from theistic families.
Most atheists live in theistic communities and countries.
Many atheists know far more about theism than many "theists".

So try again please...
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Since most (theologically, all) theists were once atheists, they therefore are allowed to determine the mindset of current atheists?
 
What I stated is accurate. No one can know gods. It is impossible. They can only claim to know.
 
devildavid said:
What I stated is accurate. No one can know gods. It is impossible. They can only claim to know.
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When theists questions whether atheists actually possess a "lack of belief", or instead positively "believe" that God doesn't exist, your response here is typical of what causes the confusion. Your card-carrying definition is obviously inconsistent with these kinds of assertions.

Of course you don't know this.
 
Mulefoot said:
When theists questions whether atheists actually possess a "lack of belief", or instead positively "believe" that God doesn't exist, your response here is typical of what causes the confusion. Your card-carrying definition is obviously inconsistent with these kinds of assertions.

Of course you don't know this.
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I am addressing the question of being able to know gods. It is not possible. But it is possible to believe in anything at all. Belief is not the same as knowledge. Not believing is not the same as not knowing. Not believing in gods is the opposite of believing in them. Atheism vs, theism.
 
My relationship with my God is a personal one, when I err he makes it known to me( damned ). Likewise, when I do right he blesses me. It's a complicated situation, but it is a personal relationship, it's not for anyone looking at me from the outside to judge.

That's what freedom of religion grants me, tho I may still be subject to the laws of man, man's punishments mean nothing to me, I have to be right with my God and he will see me though. Who is to say what is right and what we maybe damed for, it's a personal choice and the consequences of man only endure so long as I am alive, but the consequences of God stretch for eternity.

It just comes down to a matter of how you view things and how you want to view them, that is what free will grants us. Maybe when I die, that is it, I just cease to exist, and in that case I will never know it, so it doesn't matter to me. The only thing I can be sure of is man's punishments and judgements of me end when I die, and that I simply chose to believe that we have a righteous God and that he will judge me by my works and it's not for anyone else to tell me otherwise. Just like it's not for me to tell anyone else otherwise when it comes down to what they believe or don't believe, because if they sin, their sins are not my sins. There is no such thing as collective damnation because each us have our own personal relationship with God. If you are a good person and you try to do right and you show contrition when you err God will know it, and I simply chose to believe none of us will be damned for eternity if we live our lives this way, without regard to whether you worship any God or no God at all.

Being right doesn't matter, doing right is the only thing that does. So if you chose to believe there is no God and no final judgement when you die, but you still live your life as a good person a just God will take that into consideration, I don't think a just God requires your worship to some text written by God knows who for God knows what reasons, to worship a just God you must simply live you life here as a just person.
 
devildavid said:
I am addressing the question of being able to know gods. It is not possible. But it is possible to believe in anything at all. Belief is not the same as knowledge. Not believing is not the same as not knowing. Not believing in gods is the opposite of believing in them. Atheism vs, theism.
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You're equivocating on the word "know". I believe God exists, and as a result of this belief I pray to him, become acquainted with him and therefore "know" him - like I would "know" some friend or relative.

That I can't know someone that you don't think exists is a claim regarding the verb gnosis or knowledge, not the knowing of familiarity thru a relationship.
 
Mulefoot said:
You're equivocating on the word "know". I believe God exists, and as a result of this belief I pray to him, become acquainted with him and therefore "know" him - like I would "know" some friend or relative.

That I can't know someone that you don't think exists is a claim regarding the verb gnosis or knowledge, not the knowing of familiarity thru a relationship.
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I am treat the word know and belief as two separate and distinct things. The OP is about being able to know god, not just believe in god.

You can only believe in god. You can know people because they are physical and exist. Talking to an entity in your head is not the equivalent of knowing that entity. That you can't know a god is because it cannot be independently verified that there is such an entity that can be known. It is just your belief. It can be independently verified that you know a person. You are the one equivocating on the word know, not me.
 
devildavid said:
I am treat the word know and belief as two separate and distinct things. The OP is about being able to know god, not just believe in god.

You can only believe in god. You can know people because they are physical and exist. Talking to an entity in your head is not the equivalent of knowing that entity. That you can't know a god is because it cannot be independently verified that there is such an entity that can be known. It is just your belief. It can be independently verified that you know a person. You are the one equivocating on the word know, not me.
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You're still stepping outside of your atheism definition, and making a positive claim on God that he does not exist. THAT itself is a belief, as there is no evidence to support claim.

To stay consistent with atheism, you could reject or deny of course. But that's not what you're doing here.
 
Mulefoot said:
You're still stepping outside of your atheism definition, and making a positive claim on God that he does not exist. THAT itself is a belief, as there is no evidence to support claim.

To stay consistent with atheism, you could reject or deny of course. But that's not what you're doing here.
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No, I am not at all. I was responding to the question posed in the OP. Can god be known. The answer is no, because gods are not the subject of knowledge, but of belief. You can either believe in them or not, but you can't know them even if you believe in them.
 
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devildavid said:
No, I am not at all. I was responding to the question posed in the OP. Can god be known. The answer is no, because gods are not the subject to knowledge, but of belief. You can either believe in them or not, but you can't know them even if you believe in them.
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I could grant that Gods are in the category of belief (vs knowledge, at least in the sense of being aware of something of the natural state of things). Religion (at least Christianity) references a different kind of knowing (which I think the OP is referencing) that deals with familiarity of relationships.

Different "knowing" which isn't subject to empiricism. In the later sense, I know God.
 
Mulefoot said:
I could grant that Gods are in the category of belief (vs knowledge, at least in the sense of being aware of something of the natural state of things). Religion (at least Christianity) references a different kind of knowing (which I think the OP is referencing) that deals with familiarity of relationships.

Different "knowing" which isn't subject to empiricism. In the later sense, I know God.
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I think the OP is referring generally to knowing a god. Christianity is not special in that regard, nor does it have any exclusive claim to a different kind of knowing. So it is you who is equivocating on the word know.
 
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