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Can You Know God?

devildavid said:
Anyone's belief or disbelief in something is not relevant to whether something is factual. Our personal opinions do not determine it either. This is not about what you or I believe. It is about what can be demonstrated to be factual.
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So, if God makes an appearance and shakes the heavens, would that be factual enough?
 
devildavid said:
I only told you that your claim that it was real can only be a belief because it its impossible to demonstrate that it is factual.
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I can't reproduce it but it was much more than a belief. But I see what you're saying that any unreproducible experience we go thru is only a belief to another person.
 
grip said:
So, if God makes an appearance and shakes the heavens, would that be factual enough?
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Sure, as long as god made itself physically known to our senses that it was what was shaking the heavens. And it would need to be independently verifiable.
 
grip said:
I can't reproduce it but it was much more than a belief. But I see what you're saying that any unreproducible experience we go thru is only a belief to another person.
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Yes, you had an experience. But what you have done is interpret the experience subjectively. It was all internal. No one can ever verify it independently. So it can only be a matter of belief for you or anyone else.
 
grip said:
It was unbelievable and far greater than anything in the bible. You'll see it eventually.
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If you can’t even begin to describe it, then you’re less believable than people who say they’ve been abducted and “probed” by aliens on a spaceship.
 
grip said:
Many researchers *think* they've found consciousness but they haven't proved it.
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Consciousness is a neurological function. That's proven. Again, basic neurology.
 
grip said:
So, if God makes an appearance and shakes the heavens, would that be factual enough?
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If he instantly created a second sun, turning our solar system into a binary star system, that might be credible evidence of godhood.
 
devildavid said:
Sure, as long as god made itself physically known to our senses that it was what was shaking the heavens. And it would need to be independently verifiable.
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Oh, it'll be known to your senses and innermost being. Everyone will be verifying it, lol.

devildavid said:
Yes, you had an experience. But what you have done is interpret the experience subjectively. It was all internal. No one can ever verify it independently. So it can only be a matter of belief for you or anyone else.
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You'll be seeing him in time. Like I've said before, I have no intention of proselytizing, just stating my experiences and opinion.

Dragonfly said:
If you can’t even begin to describe it, then you’re less believable than people who say they’ve been abducted and “probed” by aliens on a spaceship.
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There's no way to translate the experience into words. It was too profound and indescribable. Besides, you're already prepared to respond, 'Prove it." Waste of my time.

Gordy327 said:
If he instantly created a second sun, turning our solar system into a binary star system, that might be credible evidence of godhood.
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The revealing will come from the inside of you. And it is a real shocker.

Gordy327 said:
Consciousness is a neurological function. That's proven. Again, basic neurology.
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meeting-bored.gif
 
grip said:
The revealing will come from the inside of you. And it is a real shocker.
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No, that's simply a matter of convincing myself. It would be psychological in nature (as a probable disorder) and subjective and anecdotal. It would be no different if I got high on drugs and then claimed I met God.
grip said:
meeting-bored.gif
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I see you can't refute anything I said. Not surprising either.
 
grip said:
There's no way to translate the experience into words. It was too profound and indescribable. Besides, you're already prepared to respond, 'Prove it." Waste of my time.
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Obviously I can’t say prove it. I can say I don’t believe it.

However since you can’t put any of it , nothing at all into words I’ll just assume you’re posting lies, delusions, dreams, or all of those combined.
 
Dragonfly said:
Obviously I can’t say prove it. I can say I don’t believe it.

However since you can’t put any of it , nothing at all into words I’ll just assume you’re posting lies, delusions, dreams, or all of those combined.
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I don't think it is any of those things. He truly seems to believe he had an experience with god. I take his word that he had an experience, which he subjectively concludes was a glimpse of god. Without knowing the details surrounding his experience, it is impossible to judge what caused it but I would hazard to guess it took place entirely in his brain(mind). And being unable to enter anyone's brain(mind). it is impossible for anyone else to verify it. However, his presentation is rather arrogant, which I can understand would cause some to question his honesty.
 
devildavid said:
I don't think it is any of those things. He truly seems to believe he had an experience with god. I take his word that he had an experience, which he subjectively concludes was a glimpse of god. Without knowing the details surrounding his experience, it is impossible to judge what caused it but I would hazard to guess it took place entirely in his brain(mind). And being unable to enter anyone's brain(mind). it is impossible for anyone else to verify it. However, his presentation is rather arrogant, which I can understand would cause some to question his honesty.
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I think "delusions" and/or "dreams" covers that doesn't it?

I've heard plenty of "he came to me in a dream" type stories over the years.
Plus there's the "near death experience" type episodes we hear about.

Making up outright lies? Probably not.
Lying to themselves? Might be closer to the truth.
 
Dragonfly said:
Can you “know” god? Or know what god thinks and wants?

Can reading and studying one book, written/edited by fallible men thousands of years ago, mostly unknown fallible men, help you to actually “know“ god?

If a Muslim says yes then is the Koran the book to read?

Simply because you “read and study” a book (written by anonymous, regular, fallible humans), what makes you think you can “know” a supernatural entity and it’s thoughts/desires?

An analogy to ponder:
You can read about how to fly a plane.
Spend decades reading and studying about how to fly airplanes.
Does simply reading about it make you a pilot?
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Gnostics believe you can.
 
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