Can you identify an "assault weapon" when you see one?

[M14 Shooter]

carbines with 16 inch or longer (16 inch is the 1934NFA minimum) get far more speed out of 9mm ammo than the typical 4-5" pistols. 115 grain standard 9mm ball as well as 124 grain 9mm are almost always supersonic out of the standard M9 (Beretta 92FS) pistol or the similar Glock 17, Sig 226 or Browning HP/P-35. 147 grain bullets usually are NOT supersonic (and are thus selected on suppressed weapons (silencers for those who aren't up on gun lingo). 147 standard SAAMI loadings often make supersonic speeds out of 9mm carbines like the beretta Storm, the US Civilian UZI models and the AR-15 9MM carbines

Right.
Thats why I was curious about his post.

 

[Blind man]

The P90 is 9mm, isnt it?
Most civilian 9mm ammo is supersonic...?

Um, HELL NO! If you look at the site ( http://www.impactguns.com/store/fn_p90.html#10140 ) it uses the powerful 5.7x28mm bullet. Which is of course a modified rifle style round. VERY powerful and since the bullets are small they get excellent penetration. The SF community likes them because they can cut through body armor etc. It is also very easy to turn and fire making it an ideal close quarters weapon. The 50 round clip is easy to manipulate and is known for consistency and durability.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Um, HELL NO! If you look at the site ( http://www.impactguns.com/store/fn_p90.html#10140 ) it uses the powerful 5.7x28mm bullet. Which is of course a modified rifle style round. VERY powerful and since the bullets are small they get excellent penetration. The SF community likes them because they can cut through body armor etc. It is also very easy to turn and fire making it an ideal close quarters weapon. The 50 round clip is easy to manipulate and is known for consistency and durability.

Interesting.

 

[Blind man]

Yes indeed, very interesting. They say in field tests that the piercing rounds can clear a mature tree and still inflict a mortal wound at close to medium range. There is also a pistol made for the same rounds that is said to have almost similar results. Both are made by the same manufacturer (FN-FAL i believe) and to my knowledge are the only two guns that accept this new ammunition. Thus making it very easy for the manufacturer to control the useage of their weapons.

 

[SixStringHero]

Uh, what's exactly wrong with 9mm rounds huh?

I own a P-89 Ruger damnit, and it's a good hand gun. Hell with a hi-cap 16 round mag and one in the chamber I seriously doubt anyone will be able to sustain that much damage even if it isn't the ALL POWERFUL and ALLMIGHTY Man Stopper .45.

Anyways, I digress.

 

[Blind man]

Uh, what's exactly wrong with 9mm rounds huh?

I own a P-89 Ruger damnit, and it's a good hand gun. Hell with a hi-cap 16 round mag and one in the chamber I seriously doubt anyone will be able to sustain that much damage even if it isn't the ALL POWERFUL and ALLMIGHTY Man Stopper .45.

Anyways, I digress.

There's nothing wrong with a 9-mm. They are great guns. That said there's a big difference between that and this

with a 20 round clip +1

http://www.impactguns.com/store/fn_fiveseven.html

They are two different weapons with different goals in mind. It's like trying to compare a drag car to a rally car. They are made for different things.

and if you want a man-stopper why not just get a Desert Eagle? One of those bullets on target and you can go home and have drink

 

[SixStringHero]

Hmmm

I can't see the picture.

 

[SixStringHero]

Nevermind, took awhile to refresh.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Uh, what's exactly wrong with 9mm rounds huh?
I own a P-89 Ruger damnit, and it's a good hand gun. Hell with a hi-cap 16 round mag and one in the chamber I seriously doubt anyone will be able to sustain that much damage even if it isn't the ALL POWERFUL and ALLMIGHTY Man Stopper .45.
Anyways, I digress.

9mm is fine for killing Europeons.
To kill a real man, you need a .45.
:mrgreen:

 

[SixStringHero]

LOL

One of these fine days I will upgrade.

 

[jamesrage]

1) Heckler and Koch-IIRC a model 21 light machine gun
Correct. Belt-fed full auto. Not an "assault weapon".

That almost reminds me of the M249.I knew that weapon so well I could take it apart and have grouped and put it back together again blind folded.

Although it looks more like a M240 or a M60 variant than it does a M249SAW

 

[M14 Shooter]

That almost reminds me of the M249.I knew that weapon so well I could take it apart and have grouped and put it back together again blind folded.
Although it looks more like a M240 or a M60 variant than it does a M249SAW

Its actually a G3 variant, which was based on the Spanish CETME series, which is a derivative of the Mauser Stg45(M).

 

[M14 Shooter]

I'm really curious -- Who voted 'all of the above"?

 

[TurtleDude]

I'm really curious -- Who voted 'all of the above"?

DIANE FEINSWINE

 

[M14 Shooter]

DIANE FEINSWINE

Ah yes.

Ms. "Americans will never be free until everyone is disarmed".

I should have guessed.

 

[SixStringHero]

I was about to say. The first picture did look like a G3A3 variant now that I think about it.

Isn't that supposed to be a German assault rifle? Or am I thinking of the G36C?

 

[M14 Shooter]

I was about to say. The first picture did look like a G3A3 variant now that I think about it.

Isn't that supposed to be a German assault rifle? Or am I thinking of the G36C?

The G36 is the German 5.56mm assault rifle.
IIRC, the Germans stuck w/ the G3 until the mid 1990s.

 

[LeftyHenry]

I guessed the G36, M16, and I think the last one which was a Thompson or BAR?

 

[cherokee]

I got all but the barrett right, it looks like a knock off from the one I have shot.




A bit of history...

The Maschinenpistole 43, Maschinenpistole 44, Sturmgewehr 44 (MP43, MP44, StG44 respectively) were names for a light automatic rifle developed for Nazi Germany during World War II as part of the Maschinenkarabiner (machine carbine) program, and developed from the Mkb 42(H). The many names of the Mkb 42(H)'s successor result from the complicated events in the bureaucracy of the Third Reich.

The MP43, MP44, and StG44 were names for nearly identical weapons with only small production differences and dates. The last, the StG44, was called "Sturmgewehr", literally, "storm-rifle" (or assault rifle). It combined the traits of submachine guns and automatic rifles. The translation "assault rifle" became very popular to describe this class of weapon, but it was far from being the first of this type.

It chambered a shorter version of the standard 7.92 mm rifle round, which, in combination with the weapon's design allowed it to be used like a submachine gun in close quarters but with greater accuracy and range than submachine guns in longer range engagements. However, it had much less range and power than regular rifles of the day; fortunately, at that time, much of the fighting was taking place at closer ranges such as in towns, cities, and wooded areas.










It was a popular weapon; much of the Wehrmacht was armed with either submachine guns or bolt-action rifles such as the Karabiner 98k, and only a limited number of soldiers were issued the semi-automatic rifles. There was also a distinct lack of a dedicated light machine gun (LMG). The MG34 and MG42 had versions that were meant to serve in this role but they were on the heavy side for a LMG. The StG44 was not a light machine gun, but it did fill the need for a light automatic rifle that offered mobile suppressive fire, like the Bren, while at the same time offering much of the convenience of a submachine gun or light automatic rifle.

A light automatic rifle, the FG42, was available for paratroopers as a semi-automatic rifle and light support weapon. However, it was produced in only a few thousand units because it was not economical to manufacture and due to internal politics of the Nazi government.

 

[TurtleDude]

Interesting, many people don't realize that the United States fielded an "assault rifle" in WWII as well.

THe M2 carbine

smaller than a battle rifle it shot a cartridge that was more powerful than the standard pistol cartridges of the day. It was select fire as well.

 

[SixStringHero]

Wasn't that similar to the M1 Garand, and didn't it feature a 15 round clip?

 

[TurtleDude]

Wasn't that similar to the M1 Garand, and didn't it feature a 15 round clip?

because both had wood stocks there was some similarity and both had M1 designations (MI rifle, MI carbine) and both were semi auto.

MI carbines were semi auto and normally issued with a 15 round MAGAZINE using a 110 grain or so bullet going about 1900-2000 FPS IIRC while the Garand used an 8 shot CLIP that used the far more powerful 30-06 which shot a much heavier bullet at hundreds of feet per second faster.

the M2 was a select fire version of the MI carbine and was often issued with a 30 round magazine-those magazines weren't all that reliable and many guys used the 15 round magazine. the MI and M2 carbines saw extensive service in the Korean war and the vietnam war as well. they were popular because they were very light, fairly reliable, and the bullet was fairly effective up to 100-150 yards. IN places like Vietnam, most fire fights were short range and the carbine was plenty against lightly clothed smaller asians-in the cold Korean and German theaters where the enemy were wearing heavy jackets and helmets, some thought the carbine-which was originally designed as a self defense weapon for officers, radio operators or artillerymen was underpowered as a main battle weapon. In the Nam I never heard that and many guys liked its weight and ammo capacity (you can carry alot more 30 carbine rounds compared to the 308 M14's that were the main weapon before the jammatic M16 came into nam)

they used to be pretty cheap-in the late 80's thousands that had been given to the South Korean government were re-imported, fixed up and sold for about 175 dollars. I have two of them and they shoot well. That supply has dried up and miiltary versions from WWII sell for 500-700 dollars-some of the rarer versions (several companies made them including WInchester as well as non gun makers like Inland and a postal meter company) fetch far more if in new shape, Recently Kahr/Auto Ordnance (the people who made tommy guns-currently owned by Reverend Moon's son Justin Moon) has issued a decent copy -it too sells around 500-600 dollars

 

[M14 Shooter]

You didnt hear this from me, but...

The CMP has abou 85,000 M1 carbines, and are testing the waters for their sale to individuals.

 

[TurtleDude]

You didnt hear this from me, but...

The CMP has abou 85,000 M1 carbines, and are testing the waters for their sale to individuals.

good idea given that there is NO NM course of fire for the carbine and making someone shoot a NMC to qualify is idiotic.

 

[M14 Shooter]

good idea given that there is NO NM course of fire for the carbine and making someone shoot a NMC to qualify is idiotic.

The CMP has loosened their requirements considerably. A hunting license is good enough.