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history books, which is the same evidence I have for all the things that occurred before I was born.
this is not evidence of anything, as far as this discussion goes.
what evidence do you have to support your claims?
...So my answer would be that yes 200 years ago .. you could have been both .. and no, in todays world .. you couldn't
the same evidence I have to support your claims that black slaves exist....
Thanks, I made that equate that is not correct in my earlier post. I wrote that one could contract one self into slavery, but it would just be servitude. Slavery and servitude can effectively be very similar conditions. I'd now vote No on slavery but Yes if servitude was swapped in for for slavery.slavery......is not voluntary servitude or indentured servitude or prison labor.
....
Thanks, I made that equate that is not correct in my earlier post. I wrote that one could contract one self into slavery, but it would just be servitude. Slavery and servitude can effectively be very similar conditions. I'd now vote No on slavery but Yes if servitude was swapped in for for slavery.
But, could one voluntarily enter into a contract with someone to become their indentured person for some reason if they didn't, for example, repay a loan?....
if you believe someone is a human being in any form, no true Libertarian would accept that person being denied any rights or freedoms.
But, could one voluntarily enter into a contract with someone to become their indentured person for some reason if they didn't, for example, repay a loan?
slavery is not a condition one can voluntary enter into.
Voluntary slavery (or self-sale) is the condition of slavery freely entered into. In ancient times this was a common way for impoverished people to provide subsistence for themselves or their family and provision was made for this in law.[1] For example, the code of Hammurabi stated that, "besides being able to borrow on personal security, an individual might sell himself or a family member into slavery."[2]
In ancient times one of the most direct ways to become a Roman or Greek citizen was by means of a self-sale contract. For the laws surrounding Roman and Greek manumission made it quite possible for such erstwhile slaves to then become citizens or near-citizens themselves.[3]
In medieval Russia, self-sale was the main source of slaves.[4]
1: M. L. Bush (1996), Serfdom and slavery: studies in legal bondage, p. 21
2: Anthony Appiah, Martin Bunzl (2007-07-02), Buying freedom, pp. 95–97, ISBN 978-0-691-13010-1
3: The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia. Geoffrey W. Bromiley. Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing, 1995. ISBN 0-8028-3784-0. p.543.
4: MA Klein (1986), "Slavery in Russia, 1450-1725", American Journal of Sociology
who is denying that black slaves exist?
OK. So if an economic situation occurred where people had to enter involuntary servitude in order to fulfill contractual agreements, e.g. mortgages, that would be supported in a libertarian system?that's not slavery, as slavery is involuntary,
what evidence do you have that they exist?
OK. So if an economic situation occurred where people had to enter involuntary servitude in order to fulfill contractual agreements, e.g. mortgages, that would be supported in a libertarian system?
what evidence do you have that they exist?
Lawsuit: St. Johns farm took advantage of homeless men in Jacksonville
Posted: May 3, 2012
A Florida potato farm has been accused of targeting destitute Jacksonville men to serve as seasonal workers, exploiting their situations and then not paying them what they were owed, according to a lawsuit filed last week.
The class-action lawsuit says Bulls-hit Ranch and Farm in Hastings used a labor contractor who found men at local homeless shelters and hired them as migrant agricultural workers to work in potato packing.
The men, the lawsuit says, were taken to the farm in St. Johns County to work with promises of at least minimum-wage pay, housing and meals provided at a labor camp. They were then required to pay the contractor for the housing and were supplied illegal drugs they bought on credit, according to the lawsuit.
If I was offering mortgages, e.g. a bank, and I wanted to insure that my bank would be paid off, I would require servitude if payment wasn't made. (We just bought another house on a short sale. The 2nd lender took a real bath. The owner walked away, he still owned his 1st home and will just have bad credit for a while.)folks don't choose to enter into involuntary servitude.
that's like being forced to volunteer your time.
Slavery in Sudan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Since 1995, many human rights organizations have reported on contemporary practice, especially in the context of the Second Sudanese civil war. Both the government-backed militias and the rebels (led by the SPLA) have been found guilty of abducting civilians, according a 2002 report issued by the International Eminent Persons Group, acting with the encouragement of the US State Department.[2] According to the Rift Valley Institute's Sudan Abductee Database, over 11,000 people were abducted in 20 years of slave-raiding in southern Sudan.[3]
now, where is YOUR evidence?
slaves were seen as human beings, even back then.
lesser & inferior human beings? yes. But still human.
therefore, even back then, one could not be both a slave-owner and a Libertarian.
nor could one be a Libertarian and believe women or Jews should not have the right to vote.
if you believe someone is a human being in any form, no true Libertarian would accept that person being denied any rights or freedoms.
...People 200 years ago could have owned slaves and not believed in slavery.....
Originally Posted by Thunder
who is denying that black slaves exist?
what evidence do you have that they exist?
ARealConservative said:we are talking about the founding fathers. prove they existed then, without using history books, as my use of those did not satisfy you.
Why would you post the preceding and then post the following?
It certainly looks like you are trying to avoid admitting that modern slavery does exist by bringing up the "founding fathers"
the context of our discussion. he is claiming that our history did not include the enslavement of chinese people. He asked what proof I had that it did exist, I said history books...
"history books", is not evidence.
quotes & links.....is evidence.
from Ron Paul :
But to me, it’s a moot point. I thought the great people in the 1950s and the 1960s were people like Branch Rickey and Jackie Robinson. I mean, that’s how real integration occurred. Where did the real segregation come from? From government. Government-endorsed slavery. Government-endorsed segregation law. Government-endorsed… how long did the government have segregation of the armed forces? Up until the World War Two. So to say that we who defend private property are labeled “racists”, I think that’s, and you didn’t. You didn’t.
they were persons....just lesser-persons...because of their race & origin.
No. Persons can not be property.
Slaves were not people.
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