Can willing adults be "exploited"?

[CanadaJohn]

Willing adults are exploited every day, in every profession and form of employment. After all, exploitation means the use of resources to the benefit of another. Your boss exploits your talents every day, and in exchange provides you with a salary or payment. Nothing different here.

I make no judgements on how other people earn a living or what manner they choose to use their personal physical or mental talents. As long as the activity is legal in the jurisdiction, more power to you.

 

[radcen]

I was watching a documentary called "Hot Girls Wanted" because why wouldn't I? It's about the amature porn industry and how there's no shortage of young women, all 18 and over, willing to do it. The Neflix decription mentions exploitation and that got me thinking, if it's an adult doing it of their own free will, is it exploitation? It's not just about porn either. I've seen the term come up in discussions about football and MMA and pretty much anything where someone is doing something, that someone else doesn't like.

Thoughts?

Poll on the way

Adults can be exploited. First, and obvious, would be adults with limited mental capacity, i.e. autism, etc.

But, second, people who have no immediate or foreseeable options can be exploited, as well. Happened more in the past than now, such as people who are flat broke might take a less than ideal situation to feed their kids, and so on. It's easy for someone safe ad snug in their easy chair to discount such a scenario, but the face is that hunger and/or desperation compromises a lot of ideals.

 

[Paleocon]

I was watching a documentary called "Hot Girls Wanted" because why wouldn't I? It's about the amature porn industry and how there's no shortage of young women, all 18 and over, willing to do it. The Neflix decription mentions exploitation and that got me thinking, if it's an adult doing it of their own free will, is it exploitation? It's not just about porn either. I've seen the term come up in discussions about football and MMA and pretty much anything where someone is doing something, that someone else doesn't like.

Thoughts?

Poll on the way

Sure. It's possible to treat someone as an object with their consent. And this is bad.

 

[radcen]

Gee, sounds like the same type of argument used for blaming the woman/young girl for simply wearing "revealing" clothing whenever they get raped. Not saying that you have given that argument, but it does sound like the same type of argument.

No, it's the same argument. You can tell by use of the word "deserve".

 

[radcen]

So Bernie Madoff exploited no one?

To a smaller extent, but his victims were just as greedy as he was, and were looking for something that wasn't realisic. I don't see that as pure exploitation.

 

[Hawkeye10]

I don't think so. If someone is willing to be exploited, then how can it be exploitation if it is entirely willing and voluntary?

Now replace "exploited" with "victimized" and watch victim culture ideology blow up.

 

[shelphs]

I was watching a documentary called "Hot Girls Wanted" because why wouldn't I? It's about the amature porn industry and how there's no shortage of young women, all 18 and over, willing to do it. The Neflix decription mentions exploitation and that got me thinking, if it's an adult doing it of their own free will, is it exploitation? It's not just about porn either. I've seen the term come up in discussions about football and MMA and pretty much anything where someone is doing something, that someone else doesn't like.

Thoughts?

Poll on the way

I was watching a documentary called "Hot Girls Wanted" because why wouldn't I? It's about the amature porn industry and how there's no shortage of young women, all 18 and over, willing to do it. The Neflix decription mentions exploitation and that got me thinking, if it's an adult doing it of their own free will, is it exploitation? It's not just about porn either. I've seen the term come up in discussions about football and MMA and pretty much anything where someone is doing something, that someone else doesn't like.

Thoughts?

Poll on the way

[NOTE: to be in-keeping with the spirit of the question posed by this post, the following excludes the very obvious exploitation of "workers" who are physical forced or mentally coerced or wholly destitute]



This form of exploitation focused by X Factor's post isn't specific and isolated to "anything where someone is doing something, that someone else doesn't like", it very much includes most all forms of employment, for the overwhelming majority of people employed are underpaid. And increased wealth, more free time, and the like are motivating factors for USA citizens to become porn actors and MMA fighters.



MONETARY:

Paying workers the least market-allowed amount maximizes profits, which results in a disproportionate payout to employees verses owners' earnings. Exploitation occurs whenever worker compensation is so low it results in and perpetuates an increasing discrepancy and massive gap in wealth distribution.

The overwhelming majority of workers worldly are massively economically exploited. But even if porn actors and MMA fighters were paid proportionally to owners, are their jobs exploitative? OR, is self-employed porn exploitative?



MORALITY:

What this post by X Factor speaks to is a moral exploitation more so than a monetary failing, however. It speaks to choosing a field of work many find indecent. But because people who find employment in positions that go against society's moral norms of modesty, privacy, and physical and mental health, it's not automatically exploitative, as these people's morals may differ. That could be what drew them to choose porn, stripping, or fighting. It's good money with a high income potential; 1) and the work is acceptable or; 2) to do what they enjoy and feel they do best.

Risks like social stigma and head trauma and other inherent social/health complications are understood by porn workers and MMA fighters yet they still choose to participate either amateurly or professionally. Alternate work options simply aren't as appealing by comparatively lacking in high potential income earnings and social status, e.g., an MMA fighter, even a minimally successful one.



SOCIAL FAILING:

The working poor are not destitute, but they don't live comfortably. In an environment where mostly only low-status and -pay work alternatives exist, some find porn and MMA provides a more preferred and better lifestyle. If higher pay for low-end jobs existed, fewer might choose self-employment in porn and decide to fight professionally and risk great injury.

So, yes, porn actors and MMA fighers are exploited, but so too is everyone else. Worker exploitation is a scale, and one's value is determined by where their job rests on that spectrum of exploitation. And those who earn the least, who give up the most, , who have the fewest options and freedom, who have higher social and health risks, are more exploited.

But among American citizens, miners might the the most exploited (very low life expectancy). And one could also argue the working poor who work hard and earn so little in return are more exploited than porn workers and MMA fighters.

 

[Northern Light]

Yes. Exploitation means that there's oppression, abuse or unfair treatment. Sometimes people willingly put up with that in order to get something else they want. See: indentured servitude, which is human trafficking (illegal) that people willingly enter into all over the world every day in order to try to illegally immigrate to a better life.

Contract law and tort law are complicated though and the courts might see things differently, based on liabilities, responsibilities, and whether there is criminal negligence or personal damages.

In the world at large though? Totally. How many times have you seen a raw deal that makes you cringe, but technically it's legal? Sooo many times. Big businesses know how to milk that angle like experts.

 

[NoC_T]

Low-paid workers are willing to be exploited, the world over. Whether or not they have a 'choice' is arguable, given the conflict between free will and necessity.

These girls are adults. Assuming no direct coercion, I don't see that there's any issue, beyond the larger one of opportunity. Certainly, I could see how a poor student might prefer working in porn to say, washing dishes in a kitchen, working part-time in a warehouse or waiting tables. Not everyone enjoys the benefits of a middle-class background. It may be that some of them actually enjoy it?

 

[RetiredNSmilin]

I was watching a documentary called "Hot Girls Wanted" because why wouldn't I? It's about the amature porn industry and how there's no shortage of young women, all 18 and over, willing to do it. The Neflix decription mentions exploitation and that got me thinking, if it's an adult doing it of their own free will, is it exploitation? It's not just about porn either. I've seen the term come up in discussions about football and MMA and pretty much anything where someone is doing something, that someone else doesn't like.

Thoughts?

Poll on the way

I saw that same show, and to me I see no "exploitation" at all.

Hell, if the girls keep the money, and the men pay the girls that money, then there is only someone's agenda being hurt.

It is a far thing from sex trafficking, as they tried to make it out to be.

Same with the pole dancers and bar maids that travel the country following festivals and such.

 

[RetiredNSmilin]

Low-paid workers are willing to be exploited, the world over. Whether or not they have a 'choice' is arguable, given the conflict between free will and necessity.

These girls are adults. Assuming no direct coercion, I don't see that there's any issue, beyond the larger one of opportunity. Certainly, I could see how a poor student might prefer working in porn to say, washing dishes in a kitchen, working part-time in a warehouse or waiting tables. Not everyone enjoys the benefits of a middle-class background. It may be that some of them actually enjoy it?

low paid? Let me take you on a trip to Ft Collins, CO. I will show you how "low paid" those college girls are.

 

[cpwill]

Can such be exploitation? Sure, absolutely. Should it be illegal? Not so much. In the case of all three examples, it could qualify as exploitation as the participants are not always cognizant of the long term ramifications of what they are doing, which those profiting from it do not make clear. However, there is a definite limit to just how much the government can protect people from their own ignorance.
.

Exactly. The porn industry chews up and spits out these young women, who go in with promises of wealth, and often leave with fairly little (like the old Company Town, I understand there seem to be a lot of "fees" you have to pay).

 

[cpwill]

low paid? Let me take you on a trip to Ft Collins, CO. I will show you how "low paid" those college girls are.

Strippers often do much better - especially the ones in the higher end joints that are still willing to do extras. That's a form of porn/sex work, I suppose, but not really what's under discussion.

 

[NoC_T]

low paid? Let me take you on a trip to Ft Collins, CO. I will show you how "low paid" those college girls are.

I don't doubt some are luckier than others.

 

[Gaztopian]

You're initially tempted to view the exploitation of willing adults as an oxymoron, but once you involve the social, the economic, and the political in your reasoning, the paradox is harmonized, and your conception of volition is broadened.

Consider a college student who graduates into a job market that, as a result of aggressive deregulation and unfair competition, labels entry-level jobs as unpaid internships. In principle, no one is coercing the student into accepting such an internship, but what choice does he have if he's to pursue a career in his chosen field? he's given freewill but not choices to practice it.

Another, more concrete example. Israel doesn't coerce Palestinians to work in the same illegal settlements afflicting them; they wake up every morning, gear up, and willingly head to construction sites. But Israel does divest them of choice when it restricts their mobility and economic activities, dictating where they can and can't go, what they can and can't import. No impartial arbiter would have the audacity to claim these workers are a willing party to their own demise.

Adults can be exploited, because volition transcends the absence of coercion to include the presence of choice. A man practicing volition without choice is free only in appearances.

 

[molten_dragon]

I was watching a documentary called "Hot Girls Wanted" because why wouldn't I? It's about the amature porn industry and how there's no shortage of young women, all 18 and over, willing to do it. The Neflix decription mentions exploitation and that got me thinking, if it's an adult doing it of their own free will, is it exploitation? It's not just about porn either. I've seen the term come up in discussions about football and MMA and pretty much anything where someone is doing something, that someone else doesn't like.

Thoughts?

Poll on the way

I don't think it's always exploitation, but I think it can be in some cases.

If everyone is up front about everything, I don't think it's exploitation. If the girls are being lied to about what's going to happen to them, then it is.