Can willing adults be "exploited"?

[Ntharotep]

The problem is that exploitation can cover a wide range and "willing" can also cover a wide range.
A person might be willing to do something but they may not know, entirely, what they are getting into whether through someone purposefully withholding information or just their own naiveté.

I've heard of the mutual using of one another and everyone being Ok with it...not sure that really counts as exploitation at that point since its more than fair, and exploitation is treating someone unfairly.

You should never treat a person unfairly.

 

[Cephus]

At least you admit they're being exploited. :shrug:

Not really. They're so stupid, they deserve it.

 

[Bodi]

Yes... but those girls are also exploiting the film industry to get ahead... it really isn't explotation, it is just choice.

 

[Nilly]

Anybody can be exploited.

People can think they're not being exploited when they are being exploited. Some people may know they are being exploited but continue to be exploited anyway because they don't have another option.

Free will isn't always free because choices don't happen in a vacuum. A girl might choose to have sex with a particular client for money, but that doesn't mean that she wouldn't be in another profession if other circumstances had turned out differently.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Not really. They're so stupid, they deserve it.

Gee, sounds like the same type of argument used for blaming the woman/young girl for simply wearing "revealing" clothing whenever they get raped. Not saying that you have given that argument, but it does sound like the same type of argument.

 

[Absentglare]

Of course it can qualify as exploitation.

Ask yourself, if you had a daughter or niece trying to get into porn at 18, would you try to discourage them or not ?

 

[X Factor]

There are some people that pose as interviewers for porn jobs but in fact turn out to have no connections to any porn company out there. During the "interview" they get free sex, send the person home and never have any intention what so ever of calling them back for any reason. I'd say that is exploitive. :shrug:

I agree. Blatant misreprentation can be exploitive. I've gotten more than one call from someone claiming to be from the IRS saying the police are practicly on their way right now to arrest me if I don't call them back. No doubt if I called them, I could save myself the trouble as long as I get some sum of money out to them. They are trying to exploit the gullible. Misreprentation, to me, goes the "willing" element.

 

[X Factor]

Of course it can qualify as exploitation.

Ask yourself, if you had a daughter or niece trying to get into porn at 18, would you try to discourage them or not ?

Of course and the "talent scout" sure seemed sleezy to me, but one of the stories showed an 19 year old from Texas, very much the "girl next door" type, defending her choice to her parents.

 

[Cephus]

Gee, sounds like the same type of argument used for blaming the woman/young girl for simply wearing "revealing" clothing whenever they get raped. Not saying that you have given that argument, but it does sound like the same type of argument.

It's not remotely close to the same argument. Actions have consequences. Engaging in bad actions can result in bad consequences. Welcome to reality.

 

[Absentglare]

Of course and the "talent scout" sure seemed sleezy to me, but one of the stories showed an 19 year old from Texas, very much the "girl next door" type, defending her choice to her parents.

I wouldn't want my daughter, girlfriend, or mother doing that for a living.

It does seem like an easy and sleazy way to make a quick buck. The easy way is rarely worth it.

 

[Kal'Stang]

It's not remotely close to the same argument. Actions have consequences. Engaging in bad actions can result in bad consequences. Welcome to reality.

Sure sounds like the same argument. Of course actions have consequences. :shrug: That's sorta what we're talking about here. A "girl/woman deserve rape because they wore a revealing outfit?" Their action was wearing a revealing outfit, consequence was them getting raped. vs "they were stupid, they deserve to have that "recruiter" take advantage of them". They're action was agreeing to an interview without making sure it was legitimate. The consequence is that the person lied to them. Do you really not see how its the same type of argument?

Sorry Cephus, I really don't see it as being any different. Everything you've said has been said by those people that make the claim that its the woman's fault for getting raped by wearing revealing clothing. Even the "actions have consequences" statement is the same. Just because "actions have consequences" doesn't mean that "insert whatever here" is deserved and/or not in the wrong.

 

[Risky Thicket]

I'd like to respond to the thread and I'd like to answer the poll, but I feel like I'm being manipulated and coerced.

 

[Neomalthusian]

Anyone can be defrauded. Fraud should be illegal.

Offering to buy something for a price that, in some people's opinion, is too low, should not be considered exploitation or fraud. Left wingers advocating minimum wage and other labor laws regarding compensation act like low pay is therefore necessarily exploitation. It's not.

 

[Goshin]

I see a difference between this and a dishonest con job, though. If it's a complete lie, then I'd say participation is not actually voluntary since it's based on a lie. The girls in the doc knew exactly what they were volunteering for. Now, I will say that it is possible to exploit a desperate situation, like, offering a job as a stripper for someone you know is desperate for money, then again, is that any different than hiring anyone to do something they wouldn't do otherwise? If I hire a panhandler to do yard work, is that exploitation?

Depends...

Are you paying him a fair wage for the work you expect of him? Or are you paying him crap wages since his choices are that or starve? The latter could be exploitation.

Are his working conditions reasonable and fairly safe?

Did you make sure he was fully informed on the subject of how lawn mowers can eat your feet if you're not careful?

Did you warn him that sometimes your mower's throttle gets stuck and it runs amuck for several minutes?

 

[DiAnna]

Can they be exploited? Sure. Are they being exploited? That depends upon whether the "hot young girl" was given full disclosure about expectations, use of her image, and compensation.

If you want to know if I believe a hot young girl should be legally allowed to use her looks and her body to gain personal advantage, sure I do. She may live to regret it, but hey, who among us does not regret some of our youthful stupidity.

Then again, I also don't think prostitution should be illegal because I have a bit of a thing about victimless "crimes" between consenting adults.

 

[chromium]

'Adult' is a legal status conferred long before we knew much of anything about what causes behavior. It doesn't necessarily reflect reality or justice. If you wonder why 18-19 year olds act far less responsibly than 30 year olds, it's largely because the frontal lobe isn't developed until the late 20s. In the same way, atrophy of this region coincides with dementia so that the elderly can also be easily exploited

I won't comment on porn but things like scams and peer pressure clearly leaves this age group vulnerable

 

[RetiredUSN]

Mutual exploitation makes the world go round.

Exploiting the the uneducated, or naive......not so much.

 

[chromium]

I agree. Blatant misreprentation can be exploitive. I've gotten more than one call from someone claiming to be from the IRS saying the police are practicly on their way right now to arrest me if I don't call them back. No doubt if I called them, I could save myself the trouble as long as I get some sum of money out to them. They are trying to exploit the gullible. Misreprentation, to me, goes the "willing" element.

but you're taking the side of the gullible over the deviously clever in one scenario but not necessarily others. What if neurological/longitudinal studies indicate a 19 year old can be as easily swindled into activity they would at age 30 never consent to, such as violent sport, drugs, marrying someone they barely know, taking out massive debt?

What about the ethics of those who con them into such things? Most would say they're less scummy than the nigerian scammer, but consider the college coach who makes *millions* off convincing an 18 year old to risk their health for pennies (and not even workman's comp) and a long shot at a pro career, or the federal government and banks that give out tens of thousands in non dischargeable loans to high school kids with no guarantee they will get any return on the investment

I think these findings should rightly lead to reassessing things we take for granted - when should a person really be cut loose into the world, when should they be held as accountable as a 30 year old?

 

[upsideguy]

I don't think so. If someone is willing to be exploited, then how can it be exploitation if it is entirely willing and voluntary?

So Bernie Madoff exploited no one?

 

[joG]

I was watching a documentary called "Hot Girls Wanted" because why wouldn't I? It's about the amature porn industry and how there's no shortage of young women, all 18 and over, willing to do it. The Neflix decription mentions exploitation and that got me thinking, if it's an adult doing it of their own free will, is it exploitation? It's not just about porn either. I've seen the term come up in discussions about football and MMA and pretty much anything where someone is doing something, that someone else doesn't like.

Thoughts?

Poll on the way

Until we dump consent and free will as a basis of law and justice, it sounds rather odd to presume it be exploitation to contract with willing persons in any negative sense.

 

[joG]

So Bernie Madoff exploited no one?

The difference is that Bernie was hiding information. IT was not the contract that was the problem. It was the fraud leading to the contract.

 

[Cephus]

So Bernie Madoff exploited no one?

Sure he did, but the people he took advantage of weren't trying to be exploited and the evidence of his dishonesty wasn't easy to find.

 

[USViking]

If there is no deception then there is no exploitation.

And as for coercion, coerced behavior is involuntary.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Yes. Specific groups are more vulnerable like the young and also people in desperate situations.

 

[The Mark]

Other: Yes, it is possible for someone to be misled (read: exploited) about the possible long-term problems associated with being in porn.

The same is true in any other industry or business - people can be misled by various means. This is why there are contracts and rules against some things.