Can Texas Secede from the U.S.?

[Texmex]

Yes there is a big difference between killing enemies who are trying to destroy you and invading a state and killing fellow citizens. You going to volunteer to fight in the invasion of Texas?

I live in Texas and I would fight in the invasion of Texas. But, since I am already here, I could be a spy for the Union.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

Thanks for that. I will have to read the entire ruling when I get the chance. That said, the whole "perpetual and indissoluble' argument seems a bit thin to me and more opinion than anything that can be supported in fact

Especially when the federal government at this time is picking and choosing which laws it wants to enforce or ignore. When the law DC breaks down, all bets are off.

 

[Tigerace117]

As you correctly state, our Constitution does not specifically prevent secession and Art IV S3 C4 does show a potential template for withdrawal, peacefully, by a state, or states, by gaining the consent of the legislature of that state, or states concerned, as well as that of Congress.

However, I do not see your potential of counties option to secede. That would be, based on the potential template, up to the state itself, its Constitution and its legislature to decide, IMO. If the state did not consent to it, pursuant to the stated Art IV section and clause, it could not be done without the seceding State's legislative consent. Of course there could easily be some horse trading by the National Congress to get their consent to secede...

It might be a serious mess, but if a state truly no longer wants to be in a Union which is going in a direction that it and its people clearly do not want to follow, it might be a bigger mess to try to keep them in such a dysfunctional union. Like going to war, it should not be a impulsive or capricious decision, but if they want out, like we did from Great Britain in 1776, a nation should not have to spill blood to keep them in.

Matter of fact, I think passive resistance and non violence as practiced by Gandhi and Dr. MLKing, Jr should be the method of choice. If all the people in Texas no longer complied with Federal law, did not pay any of the various Federal taxes, refused to work in conjunction with Federal agencies... what could the Feds do?

Cant put 27 million Texans in Jail.

Only problem is there aren't 27 million Texans who want to leave the union. 2700 is pushing it by my guess.

States tried to leave the union when it was going in a direction they didn't like back in 1860-1861. How well did that work out for them?

 

[Moderate Right]

If I remember correctly, any state can secede from the country and it has obviously been done in the past. Whether it sticks long term is a different matter.

 

[Texmex]

Actually it did start peacefully. It only ever lead to an attack because Lincoln was being unreasonable and not taking his people out of the state.

You are delusional ignorant. Lincoln did no such thing.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

The South will not rise again.... get over it already

The south has already risen. It's where the newest automobile plants, aircraft factories, etc are locating as they are being taxed and regulated out of existence elsewhere in the states.

 

[Henrin]

Yep.

I fail to see how someone could argue that is justified.

 

[Henrin]

You are delusional ignorant. Lincoln did no such thing.

Except he did. His advisors were telling him to listen and bring his people back, but he decided instead to play hardball. As it turns out the south was not bluffing.

 

[Tigerace117]

I live in Texas and I would fight in the invasion of Texas. But, since I am already here, I could be a spy for the Union.

Actually it did start peacefully. It only ever lead to an attack because Lincoln was being unreasonable and not taking his people out of the state.

Why should the federal government leave federal property?

 

[EMNofSeattle]

No. The Civil War proved that.

Maybe, but the civil war ended up only as it did because of the shelling of Ft Sumpter.

If a state or group of states declared secession via referendum and didn't use military force I think it would be politically unpopular to have drones throwing missiles at people just because

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

It only proved Lincoln wouldn't let it happen. Would Obama or Hillary fight a civil war?

It almost does not matter whether Obama or Hillary would fight such a war. I have serious doubts today that modern American soldiers would fight their own countrymen.

 

[Citizen.Seven]

Thanks for that. I will have to read the entire ruling when I get the chance. That said, the whole "perpetual and indissoluble' argument seems a bit thin to me and more opinion than anything that can be supported in fact

There's a surprise: the courts of a conquering power finds the conquest legal. I'm shocked, shocked!

 

[Henrin]

Why should the federal government leave federal property?

Why should someone dealing with an adversary allow them to stay in their country?

 

[EMNofSeattle]

The south has already risen. It's where the newest automobile plants, aircraft factories, etc are locating as they are being taxed and regulated out of existence elsewhere in the states.

Agreed, we should use federal tax policy on this. Red states that refuse to levy adequate taxes should have all federal funding over a 1.1 dollar spent to collected ratio stopped

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

Yeah, they would. And I'm betting the vast majority of American citizens would support it.

I am betting the vast majority of Americans would not support Hillary or Obama doing any such thing.

 

[Tigerace117]

Maybe, but the civil war ended up only as it did because of the shelling of Ft Sumpter.

If a state or group of states declared secession via referendum and didn't use military force I think it would be politically unpopular to have drones throwing missiles at people just because

Yeah, but what's the likelyhood of that?

Especially considering most of these secessionist groups are far right groups.

 

[Tigerace117]

I am betting the vast majority of Americans would not support Hillary or Obama doing any such thing.

Oh, I'm pretty sure most Americans would. Those who already hated government would bitch about it, but most people would be perfectly fine with putting down a rebellion.

 

[Frank Apisa]

What have we come to?

 

[Henrin]

Yeah, they would. And I'm betting the vast majority of American citizens would support it.

Maybe they would, but I can pretty much guarantee military enlistment wouldn't go up even a little bit.

 

[Crovax]

It almost does not matter whether Obama or Hillary would fight such a war. I have serious doubts today that modern American soldiers would fight their own countrymen.

Agreed, you would probably lose half of them to the other army as well as the bases weapons too. It would be a massively devastating war on a much greater scale than the civil war that neither side would want to engage in.

 

[Tigerace117]

Why should someone dealing with an adversary allow them to stay in their country?

Fort Sumter never belonged to South Carolina--- South Carolina has no right to steal the property of the United States of America. South Carolina also has no inherent right to attack federal personnel or, in the case of West Virginia and Kentucky, the Confederacy had no inherent right to try and seize territory or stop lands from leaving without an act of war.

 

[Henrin]

Agreed, you would probably lose half of them to the other army as well as the bases weapons too. It would be a massively devastating war on a much greater scale than the civil war that neither side would want to engage in.

I'm pretty sure enlistment numbers put the majority of enlistments coming from the south.

 

[Master PO]

Secession

May 31st 1787, Constitutional Convention, Proposal made - Can the federal government use it power to preserve the harmony of the union by using force on states?

Answer - NO!

USSC - has stated a state cannot secede, violating the compact and keeping states bound to the union, and violating the right of self government.

 

[Tigerace117]

Maybe they would, but I can pretty much guarantee military enlistment wouldn't go up even a little bit.

We've got enough troops to deal with any secession movement as it is anyway.

 

[Henrin]

Fort Sumter never belonged to South Carolina--- South Carolina has no right to steal the property of the United States of America. South Carolina also has no inherent right to attack federal personnel or, in the case of West Virginia and Kentucky, the Confederacy had no inherent right to try and seize territory or stop lands from leaving without an act of war.

Do you even know there was dispute over the fort before the attack came about? Why would anyone leave a country and then feel perfectly fine having that countries bases in their country filled with solders?

Do you understand how that fort filled with solders is a risk that needs to be dealt with?