• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Can Stock Buyback Activity Translate into Wealth and Prosperity for Woking Class Americans?

Montgomery

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 21, 2020
Messages
1,953
Reaction score
283
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist

The booming stock market has been given ample opportunity to translate into even some sort of relief for so many working class Americans living in poverty. Is it just a matter of allowing more time?

America is in huge turmoil, close to a point at which the people are almost ready for revolution. There's even been a faux attempt at revolution by those who were the most dissatisfied with the status quo.

Purely and simply, America's biggest problem that causes the unrest and violence is income inequality.

Can a booming stock market deliver? Trump staked his popularity on the stock market bringing hope for the working class American.

Or is a booming stock market inversely related to the wellbeing of the working class American? Biden puts no faith in a booming stock market. His agenda would speak to having the opposite effect on the markets.
 

The booming stock market has been given ample opportunity to translate into even some sort of relief for so many working class Americans living in poverty. Is it just a matter of allowing more time?

America is in huge turmoil, close to a point at which the people are almost ready for revolution. There's even been a faux attempt at revolution by those who were the most dissatisfied with the status quo.

Purely and simply, America's biggest problem that causes the unrest and violence is income inequality.

Can a booming stock market deliver? Trump staked his popularity on the stock market bringing hope for the working class American.

Or is a booming stock market inversely related to the wellbeing of the working class American? Biden puts no faith in a booming stock market. His agenda would speak to having the opposite effect on the markets.

In order to take advantage successfully, people need to be able constantly invest and trade. A problem comes as one tries the transition from being financially dependent to financially independent, the taxes are such that as you make more money it becomes increasingly difficult to achieve independence till you manage to accumulate enough wealth that your income becomes such that a tax increase does not affect you as much as previously. Secondly the American tax system is skewed toward business and investment and against employment which means people should get out of be employed as soon as they can in order to have the best chance to increase their income and eventual wealth.
 
The was the theory of the Roaring 20s - everyone should put their money and savings into the get-rich stock market. The stock market has no value to the poor and the radical over valuation of the stock market due to everyone turning to the stock market for economic security resulted in the Great Depression.

The stock market is booming because of the obliteration of half a million American businesses - all on behalf of the wealthiest corporations of the stock market consuming the former profits of their competitors - while having lockdown and restriction orders also meant to divert all national wealth and spending to the big stock market companies.

It is a massive artificial bubble that is going to burst. Destroying small businesses and lower income people to make the stock market companies fabulously wealthy has assured that massive inflation and economic collapse is inevitable.
 
The stock market and the foundational economy are two different things.

The GOP tax-bonanza for the wealthy and corporations envisioned tax savings being used to invest in company expansion and thus increase jobs.

That didn't happen. Corporations gave the upper tier managers raises and used the rest for stock buybacks or acquisitions.
 
We have 401Ks, Roths, and the other retirement fund, so we participate in the stock market.

A lot of people either don't have access to those or they didn't participate.

It does make me watch the stock market a bit closer.




.
 
In order to take advantage successfully, people need to be able constantly invest and trade. A problem comes as one tries the transition from being financially dependent to financially independent, the taxes are such that as you make more money it becomes increasingly difficult to achieve independence till you manage to accumulate enough wealth that your income becomes such that a tax increase does not affect you as much as previously. Secondly the American tax system is skewed toward business and investment and against employment which means people should get out of be employed as soon as they can in order to have the best chance to increase their income and eventual wealth.

I've bolded the part of your reply that I found very interesting. You seem to be suggesting that a point will be reached at which more taxation will become irrelevant. It's an interesting concept but I'm not aware of any particular point where that happens. Can you suggest some such figure?

The only thing that comes to mind would be absolute poverty or a situation in which a person or family would attempt to live free of society and off the grid, so to speak, and then decides to begin to become involved and so starts to earn money and pay taxes.

What is poverty within a system that provided free and quality health care along with free and high quality education? If that sort of system exists then would it allow some people to live off the grid and independent of government?
 
We have 401Ks, Roths, and the other retirement fund, so we participate in the stock market.

A lot of people either don't have access to those or they didn't participate.

It does make me watch the stock market a bit closer.




.
And in fact your 401K's are used as a method to force the working class to participate in the stock market.
 
The was the theory of the Roaring 20s - everyone should put their money and savings into the get-rich stock market. The stock market has no value to the poor and the radical over valuation of the stock market due to everyone turning to the stock market for economic security resulted in the Great Depression.

The stock market is booming because of the obliteration of half a million American businesses - all on behalf of the wealthiest corporations of the stock market consuming the former profits of their competitors - while having lockdown and restriction orders also meant to divert all national wealth and spending to the big stock market companies.

It is a massive artificial bubble that is going to burst. Destroying small businesses and lower income people to make the stock market companies fabulously wealthy has assured that massive inflation and economic collapse is inevitable.
If my understanding of 401k's is correct then the stock market crash will take you down with it. That's an incentive for most Americans to uphold the system.
Does that relate directly to government interference in the affairs of the American people, and that which some Americans condemn most adamantly?
It seems to me as a Canadian that that would be government interference in the people's affairs that is just too intolerable!
 

The booming stock market has been given ample opportunity to translate into even some sort of relief for so many working class Americans living in poverty. Is it just a matter of allowing more time?

America is in huge turmoil, close to a point at which the people are almost ready for revolution. There's even been a faux attempt at revolution by those who were the most dissatisfied with the status quo.

Purely and simply, America's biggest problem that causes the unrest and violence is income inequality.

Can a booming stock market deliver? Trump staked his popularity on the stock market bringing hope for the working class American.

Or is a booming stock market inversely related to the wellbeing of the working class American? Biden puts no faith in a booming stock market. His agenda would speak to having the opposite effect on the markets.

Yes. If you have a retirement plan such as an IRA, a 401(k), a 403(b), a 457 or other vehicle, you are almost certainly invested in the stock market. Assuming you are not invested in a single stock (no matter how good the stock is doing at the present moment), you can achieve incredible wealth by being a joint owner along with millions of others in publicly-traded corporations worth trillions of dollars.
 
If my understanding of 401k's is correct then the stock market crash will take you down with it. That's an incentive for most Americans to uphold the system.
Does that relate directly to government interference in the affairs of the American people, and that which some Americans condemn most adamantly?
It seems to me as a Canadian that that would be government interference in the people's affairs that is just too intolerable!

Employee contributions to 401ks are optional. Not mandatory. I know plenty of people who do not contribute to their company's 401k.
 
The stock market and the foundational economy are two different things.

The GOP tax-bonanza for the wealthy and corporations envisioned tax savings being used to invest in company expansion and thus increase jobs.

That didn't happen. Corporations gave the upper tier managers raises and used the rest for stock buybacks or acquisitions.

Real high paying jobs aren't coming to Americans anymore. The system can't sustain that! Low paying jobs for the masses is in the future of all countries, but the American people are feeling it first, and earlier than the world's leading democracies.

This is 'sharing the wealth' written in the simplest way to understand. All countries with large populations are being faced with the same problem as the world's population gets closer to 10 billion, at which point if's predicted to stop growing.

China has addressed the issue with a new approach which can allow capitalism within certain definite bounds. They obviously know that their 1 1/2 billion people will rise up against the system if they'r not provided with a share of the wealth.

America's people are currently doing just that! No other valid analysis of the American system can be offered as a reason for the turmoil and the near attempt at revolution.
 
Employee contributions to 401ks are optional. Not mandatory. I know plenty of people who do not contribute to their company's 401k.
Yes, I'm aware of that. But for a citizen to shun the system that's been created, he loses an opportunity to take part in that which appears to be so profitable. Is that not some form of force by government? I would consider it much more applicable to complains of government interference than some of the imaginary government interference being hinted at by Americans.

You're in tune with reality and so it should be fair to ask you what government interference that Canada accepts specifically, you couldn't condone.
And are any of them worth the cost of bankruptcy on account of needing an appendectomy?

The real world is a pretty great place my friend!
 
Yes. If you have a retirement plan such as an IRA, a 401(k), a 403(b), a 457 or other vehicle, you are almost certainly invested in the stock market. Assuming you are not invested in a single stock (no matter how good the stock is doing at the present moment), you can achieve incredible wealth by being a joint owner along with millions of others in publicly-traded corporations worth trillions of dollars.
Isn't it a well established fact that for every stock market winner there is a loser?
And then the losers are the ones who didn't possess the sophistication (*or the inside trader) to buy and sell at the right time.

Some will do very well in the stock market.

I'm really just saying that I prefer to have a completely free choice on whether or not I participate. And if I choose to not participate then I demand to not be penalized by the system for my choice.
Government interference in our affairs is the hot topic here right now.

*ability of large corporations to manipulate the market to their advantage. The working class are the losers as soon as they jump in.
 
Last edited:
The booming stock market has been given ample opportunity to translate into even some sort of relief for so many working class Americans living in poverty. Is it just a matter of allowing more time?
Nope.

"Trickle Down" is just another "Zombie" belief by the right, which is wrong, and repeatedly shown to be wrong, but refuses to die.


Or is a booming stock market inversely related to the wellbeing of the working class American?
It doesn't have to be inversely related. We can have less income inequality, and a healthier society, and good stock prices.


Biden puts no faith in a booming stock market. His agenda would speak to having the opposite effect on the markets.
Well, the stock market has continued to rise since early November, so there goes that theory.

Wall Street is certainly not thrilled about the possibility of paying more taxes, or a working Consumer Protection Bureau, or facing more regulation. However, I think investors realize that Trump was not taking COVID seriously, was botching the economic recovery, and was a huge threat to the stability of the nation.[/QUOTE]
 
Nope.

"Trickle Down" is just another "Zombie" belief by the right, which is wrong, and repeatedly shown to be wrong, but refuses to die.[//quote]

That's right and it's called supplyside economics.

It doesn't have to be inversely related. We can have less income inequality, and a healthier society, and good stock prices.

You can take a chance but you'll have to get out just in time because it will crach again.

Well, the stock market has continued to rise since early November, so there goes that theory.

That which I said has nothing to do with the stock market's rise of fall but it does relate to Biden's agenda.
 

The booming stock market has been given ample opportunity to translate into even some sort of relief for so many working class Americans living in poverty. Is it just a matter of allowing more time?

America is in huge turmoil, close to a point at which the people are almost ready for revolution. There's even been a faux attempt at revolution by those who were the most dissatisfied with the status quo.

Purely and simply, America's biggest problem that causes the unrest and violence is income inequality.

Can a booming stock market deliver? Trump staked his popularity on the stock market bringing hope for the working class American.

Or is a booming stock market inversely related to the wellbeing of the working class American? Biden puts no faith in a booming stock market. His agenda would speak to having the opposite effect on the markets.
Common (wet)Dreams to the contrary ordinary citizens can profit from the stock market and approximately half or our households do.

Income inequity is a natural part of an economy that suppoarts jobs from floor sweepers and burger flippers to highly skilled physicians, engineers, and scientists. Simply put - you income is derived by your worth to your employer and the cost of finding a replacement for you AND the competition to obtain your services. Almost anyone can operate a broom or flip burgers, relatively few can performo neurosurgery or decision artificial intelligence computers.
 
Common (wet)Dreams to the contrary ordinary citizens can profit from the stock market and approximately half or our households do.

Income inequity is a natural part of an economy that suppoarts jobs from floor sweepers and burger flippers to highly skilled physicians, engineers, and scientists. Simply put - you income is derived by your worth to your employer and the cost of finding a replacement for you AND the competition to obtain your services. Almost anyone can operate a broom or flip burgers, relatively few can performo neurosurgery or decision artificial intelligence computers.
Roughly half lose while half win. The next big crash is likely in the planning stages by the big players. They'll sell off while ordinary Americans are at work pushing brooms and flipping hamburgers.

America is close to revolution. Can you think of a reason why the working people are so unhappy?
 
Roughly half lose while half win. The next big crash is likely in the planning stages by the big players. They'll sell off while ordinary Americans are at work pushing brooms and flipping hamburgers.

America is close to revolution. Can you think of a reason why the working people are so unhappy?
Because some believe this nonsense your peddling.
 
Spamming that's not deserving of further comments.
Feel free to ignore me, I haven’t seen anything worth an extended discussion with you
 
The booming stock market has been given ample opportunity to translate into even some sort of relief for so many working class Americans living in poverty. Is it just a matter of allowing more time?

Your thread title indicates you have no understanding of the concept.

The purpose of stock buyback is to protect a publicly-traded corporation from raiding or closure. I will provide you with examples to explain.

Krogers (a grocery store chain) typically keeps 1/3rd of its assets as cold hard cash.

When KKR attempted to buy Kroger's, which would have resulted in the destruction and closure of the company, Krogers took its cold hard cash and started buying back its own stock. That drove stock prices up and KKR could no longer afford to purchase Krogrer stock.

Zenith used to be a US company. It competed against a Korean company called Life's Good. You know them the LG company.

Zenith and its union workforce could not compete globally against Korean LG and its union workforce.

LG amassed lots of profits from the global sale of TVs, cell-phones, CD/DVD players and other electronics. It used those profits to buy Zenith stock.

Eventually, LG had bought enough Zenith stock to become the majority shareholder at 51%.

In other words, LG owned Zenith. Zenith did not have any cash to buy back its own stock to prevent LG from taking over Zenith.

Zenith had to file bankruptcy and LG bought Zenith.

As part of their union benefits, Zenith workers now work at Wal-Mart and McDonald's, since Zenith is no more.

So, the purpose of stock buyback is to keep the stock prices of a publicly-traded corporation high enough to prevent a hostile takeover, leveraged buyout, forced merger, forced acquisition or complete closure and going out of business.

That is what keeps American workers employed.

Purely and simply, America's biggest problem that causes the unrest and violence is income inequality.

State the law, corollary or theorem in Economics that requires income equality.

Can a booming stock market deliver? Trump staked his popularity on the stock market bringing hope for the working class American.

That was his mistake. The 3% of US businesses that sell stocks and employ 5.6% of the work-force sell stocks as one of several ways of raising cash.

Note that neither stocks, a stock market nor publicly-traded corporations are necessary for a successful economy.

If 100% of US companies were not corporations instead of only 97% not being corporations, people would have to use different investment vehicles to get additional money.
 
Your thread title indicates you have no understanding of the concept.

I know how it's supposed to work and so now I'm trying to address the fact that a booming stock market hasn't resulted in the raising of all boats in America. Your country's quality of life has fallen to 15th. in the world.


That is what keeps American workers employed.

Keeping some employed at low paying jobs flipping ha...............

State the law, corollary or theorem in Economics that requires income equality.

I know of no such law but I know of how the Laffer curve is said to work. Will that fill the bill for you? Point B on the Laffer curve represents the point at which less taxation brings in more tax dollars and that therefore enriches everybody and raises all boats. Supposedly? What level of taxation do you think that would be?

Note that neither stocks, a stock market nor publicly-traded corporations are necessary for a successful economy.

That would be one of 'my' talking points

If 100% of US companies were not corporations instead of only 97% not being corporations, people would have to use different investment vehicles to get additional money.

No, that's much more related to the amount of cash flow in the stock markets, not the number of corporations. Has the booming stock market translated into wealth and prosperity for America's working people? Or has it had an inverse effect?

Or in other words, can the stock market be to blame for America's fall to 15th. on 'quality of life'?

As part of their union benefits, Zenith workers now work at Wal-Mart and McDonald's, since Zenith is no more.

That and several other of your points seem to say that it does!
 
Your thread title indicates you have no understanding of the concept.

I would like to talk to you about the book, "A Declaration of Interdependence, by Will Hutton.
It has a lot to do with how America's corporations put shareholder profit above jobs for American workers.
 
Back
Top Bottom