Can someone explain to me why natural immunity testing/status is not part of the COVID solution?

[tempest62]

Indeed. alot of people died getting a useless vaccine.

Correct. Well over 10,000 so far. And hundreds of thousands more adversely to very adversely affected.

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

To get to a regular immunity where almost everyone contracts the disease (90%) you can expect something on the order of 328.1 * .90 * .01 = 2.95 million deaths.

The process is also slow allowing the disease to mutate freely so it will virtually ensure that the disease is with us forever.

We should also not in any way trust that those that have had COVID have immunity to it as there is no way to tell if getting say, a mild case caused someone to get enough antibodies to fight it later.

A lot of flaws in that theory. First nobody can say how it will mutate. The virus may very well become less harmful like most colds. Also as the virus kills off those that are the most vulnerable the death toll will come down significantly as the people left are less susceptible to this virus. Plus people who have contracted it or have been vaccinated will continue to become less susceptible to the virus. Plus those people who are asymptomatic or have very minor symptoms their body has already figured out how to deal with this particular virus. Most likely their immune system will continue to learn to deal with this virus more efficiently.

A lot of the initial deaths were those most vulnerable who we failed to protect. Luckily we were able to get a vaccine in record time. Hopefully we will continue to work on vaccines for these viruses instead of waiting for the next pandemic. The people of this country should not have been dependent on a country like China for research on these viruses or this will happen again all too soon.

 

[Variant]

A lot of flaws in that theory. First nobody can say how it will mutate. The virus may very well become less harmful like most colds.

It will likely become less harmful over time, but in the mean time having everyone get it ramps up the death toll exactly how I said.

The problem is that with a large unvaccinated population we are allowing the virus a place to hide while it mutates more and more, which means it will eventually find a way around our vaccines and won't likely be able to be win the fight overall.

So, any strategy that leads to lax vaccination efforts assures we will never win outright like with polio or smallpox.

Also as the virus kills off those that are the most vulnerable the death toll will come down significantly as the people left are less susceptible to this virus.

No, we're very good at producing people who are sickly or old, it happens quite naturally as time goes by. True we would get worse at this statistically if we let diseases run rampant in our population.

Plus people who have contracted it or have been vaccinated will continue to become less susceptible to the virus. Plus those people who are asymptomatic or have very minor symptoms their body has already figured out how to deal with this particular virus. Most likely their immune system will continue to learn to deal with this virus more efficiently.

We don't know how much immunity is obtained by asymptomatic people. Your assumption here is just that. We DO know how much immunity the vaccine yields. At least for now we do.

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

We don't know how much immunity is obtained by asymptomatic people. Your assumption here is just that. We DO know how much immunity the vaccine yields.

Yes we do. They have already had the virus and their immune system has already proven they are not vulnerable to this virus. For them this virus is just the common cold.

It is the people whose immune system doesn't know how to deal with this virus that need the vaccine. It is the people who have been vaccinated that most likely will need booster shots and continue being vaccinated. We don't know if we are immune. I get the flu vaccine every year because I don't want another bout of pneumonia. Now my brother is asymptomatic with the flu. He rarely gets the flu and even when he does it doesn't seem to bother him. Hell he has had this virus and needed no medical attention. Unfortunately I probably will die from it if I do not get vaccinated.

 

[Colin Norris]

It is all about control. To maintain the fear any solution not involving the government must be suppressed. Any science not supportive of the Democrat narrative must be suppressed.

What a load of rubbish.
Why didn't You participate in trumps science of injecting disinfectant and snake oil.
If all you have is hatred for the dems, you have nothing but paranoia.

 

[MaryP]

There is no money to be made in talking about natural immunity. Thats it in a nutshell. Soon, even though they say vaccines are useless, Fauci the lunatic will be demanding 5 or 6 vaccination shots. Some people are getting awfully wealthy off the ignorant. At least now with everyone saying vaccinations dont work its going to be real hard to convince anyone to risk death to get one.

No one is saying the vaccines don't work or that they're useless. From another thread, apologies to those who have already seen it once:

As predicted, the vaccines are not as effective against Delta, but if anyone takes a look at a graph of 'before' and 'after' numbers of cases and deaths, being vaccinated has radically reduced the overall numbers we're talking about, and the severity of cases. It could be even better if more than half of Americans were vaccinated. Vaccination is still the answer. That has not changed.

I fear the less than perfect protection of the vaccines is discouraging people who have been putting it off for one reason or another, thinking, "Well, I'm going to get sick anyway." But that's not true. Delta is 50% more contagious, or according to others, twice as contagious. That's no reason to throw up and quit. The vaccines are slowing this thing down, admirably.

There are 163 million fully vaccinated Americans. Less than 7,000 have died of Covid after being vaccinated. That's .0043% of vaccinated people have died. Compare that to the overall deathrate, which is 1.8%.

Tricky math question: Which is larger?
.0043% or
1.8%
????

If you were a gambler, which odds would you choose?

 

[madman]

This is not a rhetorical question. I sincerely want to understand. Is it too expensive or time-consuming to test for this? Does it have to do with Rx profits? Something else?

For what it's worth, I was offered a free antibody test during a routine annual physical. Why? And why can't everyone be tested? Or at least have the choice vs being vaccinated unnecessarily?

One additional consideration that concerns me, beyond the unnecessary risk of side effects when one does not need/benefit from the vaccine, is that each wasted vaccination could have been made available to others, including other countries.

We cant even get people vaccinated at 100%. What makes you think people are going to go get tested? I mean, you are a conservative. Are you saying you want to force everyone to get tested?

 

[typical_analytical]

To get to a regular immunity where almost everyone contracts the disease (90%) you can expect something on the order of 328.1 * .90 * .01 = 2.95 million deaths.

The process is also slow allowing the disease to mutate freely so it will virtually ensure that the disease is with us forever.

We should also not in any way trust that those that have had COVID have immunity to it as there is no way to tell if getting say, a mild case caused someone to get enough antibodies to fight it later.

I'm not suggesting natural herd immunity. Also you can be tested for antibodies.

Edit 'herd'

 

[typical_analytical]

We cant even get people vaccinated at 100%. What makes you think people are going to go get tested? I mean, you are a conservative. Are you saying you want to force everyone to get tested?

Why would people not want to be tested?

 

[madman]

Why would people not want to be tested?

the same reason they wont get vaxxed

 

[typical_analytical]

the same reason they wont get vaxxed

Why's that?

 

[madman]

Why's that?

I agree with you. Everyone should get tested, but are you for big gov mandating this? (becasue you know, that's not very "conservative."

as for your answer, there are many answers: laziness, access, politics, ignorance, conspiracy theories, just to name a few.

 

[Variant]

I'm not suggesting natural herd immunity. Also you can be tested for antibodies.

Edit 'herd'

We can be tested for antibodies but not how effective they are.

 

[Visbek]

This is not a rhetorical question. I sincerely want to understand. Is it too expensive or time-consuming to test for this? Does it have to do with Rx profits? Something else?

For what it's worth, I was offered a free antibody test during a routine annual physical. Why? And why can't everyone be tested? Or at least have the choice vs being vaccinated unnecessarily?

One additional consideration that concerns me, beyond the unnecessary risk of side effects when one does not need/benefit from the vaccine, is that each wasted vaccination could have been made available to others, including other countries.

Everyone can be tested, if they can get to a doctor's office.

That said: Testing is not a solution to COVID.

Testing obviously doesn't prevent anyone from getting sick.

Natural immunity is not as good as vaccination. I.e. Getting vaccinated after you've had COVID is not a waste.

As to the haters? Testing is just as invasive as vaccination. And the people who don't trust health care systems, or don't take COVID seriously, or don't have easy access to tests, either won't want or won't be able to get tested.

At this point, the solution is simple: Get as many vaccinated as possible, as soon as possible.

 

[Luce]

This is not a rhetorical question. I sincerely want to understand. Is it too expensive or time-consuming to test for this? Does it have to do with Rx profits? Something else?

For what it's worth, I was offered a free antibody test during a routine annual physical. Why? And why can't everyone be tested? Or at least have the choice vs being vaccinated unnecessarily?

One additional consideration that concerns me, beyond the unnecessary risk of side effects when one does not need/benefit from the vaccine, is that each wasted vaccination could have been made available to others, including other countries.

Unnecessarily? I don't know if you've been paying attention or not, but the numbers are exceeding the first two waves and the curve is worse than the largest wave over the winter.

 

[Fledermaus]

Correct. Well over 10,000 so far. And hundreds of thousands more adversely to very adversely affected.

Show your math.... SarahSun can't.

 

[bluesmoke]

Do you have a source for this?

Huh? You don't know that one doesn't become 100% immune having survived COVID? And that you are then less immune than if vaccinated? It has been so often published and posted, I'm just wanting clarity before I waste my time giving you evidence that the sun "rises" in the east based on the earth turning in the direction it does as it circles the sun.

 

[bluesmoke]

Where did you read that?

Where did you not read that? Do you really believe that having survived COVID gives you as much immunity as does vaccination? Must I give you evidence that has been published freely for those who bother to read?

 

[bluesmoke]

No more posted needed in this thread. Well done, that was fast!

Get to shot Trumpists, just get the shot and stop the crap.

I'm actually being challenged. This stuff has been published and posted ad nauseum and these science deniers act like they've never heard it before. Considering what sources of news they rely on, I don't doubt it. I ask them to verify that they really don't know.

 

[SarahSun]

Its becom

This is not a rhetorical question. I sincerely want to understand. Is it too expensive or time-consuming to test for this? Does it have to do with Rx profits? Something else?

For what it's worth, I was offered a free antibody test during a routine annual physical. Why? And why can't everyone be tested? Or at least have the choice vs being vaccinated unnecessarily?

One additional consideration that concerns me, beyond the unnecessary risk of side effects when one does not need/benefit from the vaccine, is that each wasted vaccination could have been made available to others, including other countries.

Its becoming clear natural immunity is far better than the non sterile corona shot. As more studies come out its going to be clear its a lifetime immunity.

Had COVID? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

People who recover from mild COVID-19 have bone-marrow cells that can churn out antibodies for decades, although viral variants could dampen some of the protection they offer.

www.nature.com

Im starting to feel like a "good German" in the 30's and 40's who opposed the Nazi genocides. We need to stand up to todays liberal Nazi's who see people they dont approve of as untermenschen. People have a right to decide whats injected into them and there is no reason for them to be made untermenschen over a corona shot. The liberal Nazi's today are nothing to be proud of.

 

[Logophile]

Evidence For Lasting Natural Immunity Against COVID Infection Is Strong, Say Multiple Scientists

Scientists have been “at war” during this pandemic. Like with so many other global issues today, contradicting evidence…

thepulse.one

As scientists, we have been stunned and disheartened to witness many strange scientific claims made during this pandemic, often by scientists. None is more surprising that the false assertion made in the John Snow Memorandum – and signed by current CDC Director, Rochelle Wolensky – that “there is no evidence for lasting protective immunity to SARS-CoV-2 following natural infection.

Dr. Jay Bhattacharya from Stanford, Dr. Sunetra Gupta from Oxford, and Dr. Martin Kulldorff from Harvard

This sentiment has been shared throughout the pandemic. Ali Ellebedy, PhD, associate professor of pathology & immunology at Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis expressed the following in May after publishing a study. The study showed that months after recovering from mild cases of COVID-19, the people studied still had immune cells in their body pumping out antibodies against the virus that causes COVID-19.

Last fall, there were reports that antibodies wane quickly after infection with the virus that causes COVID-19, and mainstream media interpreted that to mean that immunity was not long-lived…But that’s a misinterpretation of the data. It’s normal for antibody levels to go down after acute infection, but they don’t go down to zero; they plateau. Here, we found antibody-producing cells in people 11 months after first symptoms. These cells will live and produce antibodies for the rest of people’s lives. That’s strong evidence for long-lasting immunity.
Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis Press Release

All this crap about natural immunity not being an effective deterrent against Covid is utter bs. And it is - without a doubt - financially driven and partisan propaganda. And all the people here that are making idiotic claims that natural immunity is insignificant should take a hard look at the history of pandemics. Thanks!!

 

[bluesmoke]

According to this, that's not true.

Immunotherapy and COVID Vaccine: FAQs

Here’s what people who take immunotherapy for cancer need to know about the COVID vaccines.

www.healthline.com

"may not necessarily benefit"

"May not" as in "May not". "necessarily" as it it doesn't mean so.

"suggest that natural infection provides immunity similar to vaccination."

"suggest" as in makes one think, consider, comes to mind, consider. "similar" as in resembling but not the same.

"Therefore, people who haven’t had COVID-19 can be prioritized for vaccination."

As in because you've had COVID and survived, those who've not had COVID should be vaccinated before you.

"The study is a preprint and hasn’t yet been peer-reviewed for publication."

"preprint" meaning it has not even been finally approved. Not yet "peer reviewed" meaning the yet to be finally approved for print nor reviewed by those in the science community, nor published could have been put together by someone sitting on their bed that weighs 400 pds.

I like the "according to this". It absolves you of making any commitment to claim or taking a position that is incumbent in debate.

 

[Phys251]

Its becom

Its becoming clear natural immunity is far better than the non sterile corona shot. As more studies come out its going to be clear its a lifetime immunity.

Had COVID? You’ll probably make antibodies for a lifetime

People who recover from mild COVID-19 have bone-marrow cells that can churn out antibodies for decades, although viral variants could dampen some of the protection they offer.

www.nature.com

Im starting to feel like a "good German" in the 30's and 40's who opposed the Nazi genocides. We need to stand up to todays liberal Nazi's who see people they dont approve of as untermenschen. People have a right to decide whats injected into them and there is no reason for them to be made untermenschen over a corona shot. The liberal Nazi's today are nothing to be proud of.

And there's the Godwin. One more square marked off on my bingo board.

 

[Mulefoot]

I think the consensus at this point is that natural immunity and vaccine immunity are similar, but the data propose "that those who’ve had and recovered from a COVID-19 infection still stand to benefit from getting vaccinated."

How Immunity Generated from COVID-19 Vaccines Differs from an Infection

A key issue as we move closer to ending the pandemic is determining more precisely how long people exposed to SARS-CoV-2, the COVID-19 virus, will make neutralizing antibodies against this dangerou…

directorsblog.nih.gov

 

[snakestretcher]

Having had COVID does not make one naturally immune, but merely more resistant to future contraction of the disease and much less so than when vaccinated. "Natural immunity" is not a solution and all those who've had COVID still need to be vaccinated.

Exactly; just like the seasonal flu vaccine needs a booster every year as immunity dwindles over the months. One can still contract flu, but the symptoms will be far less severe.

Misconceptions about Flu Vaccines

Read more on common misconceptions about seasonal flu and flu vaccines effectiveness.

www.cdc.gov