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Can Obama Pardon Millions of Immigrants?

Can Obama pardon Illegal Aliens

  • Total voters
    33
Casper said:
First off I believe Pardons apply only to Us Citizens and secondly one has to name the person being Pardoned, does he know all their names and addresses, if so why are they not arrested and deported.
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Actually, I would think that pardons from the President could apply to any person and only with respect to US laws (and sub-jurisdictions therein). He can absolve anyone from prosecution and/or punishment within the borders of the USA (& territories). He cannot pardon any person from prosecution and punishment outside of the borders of the USA. It's that simple, I believe.
 
CharloTexan said:
Actually, I would think that pardons from the President could apply to any person and only with respect to US laws (and sub-jurisdictions therein). He can absolve anyone from prosecution and/or punishment within the borders of the USA (& territories). He cannot pardon any person from prosecution and punishment outside of the borders of the USA. It's that simple, I believe.
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So he can name all of them by name? I do not believe any President has the right to simply pardon everyone that broke a specific law.
 
Casper said:
First off I believe Pardons apply only to Us Citizens and secondly one has to name the person being Pardoned, does he know all their names and addresses, if so why are they not arrested and deported.
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Its actually anyone who commits an federal offense against the usa can be pardoned its not exclusive to citizens. but a pardon as I mentioned earlier is a pardoning of a criminal conviction. so they would first have to be charged with the crime and then that could be pardoned. it doesn't excuse them from further offenses. although he could alleviate that by giving an individual amnesty.
 
apdst said:
He might be able to pardon them, but he can't natialize them. The Constitution gives that power to Congress.
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This is the part that people dont think about or bother to learn about when they cite Reagans signature of the amnesty legislation in 1986.
 
How about Aliens from another planet-can the president give them the right to land?

Or should he kick off the first interplanetary war?

:lol:

We won't be laughing when we get hit by their phaser beams.
 
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VanceMack said:
This is the part that people dont think about or bother to learn about when they cite Reagans signature of the amnesty legislation in 1986.
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That's because there are sooooooo many people (most of them Libersls) that don't have a clue what The Constitution says.
 
It is not a requirement that illegal aliens be convicted in order to be deported. So even lacking a conviction the president can pardon them so that they will not be deported. There must be contingencies applied to this however. A path to legal citizenship must actively be followed or any pardon will be rescinded. This would require a registration process, and anyone not registered could also be deported if caught. This policy should reduce the unmanageable 11,000,000 illegals to some number more reasonably manageable for any deportation purposes.
 
I think President Obama has pretty well established that he's above the law and can do as he pleases.
 
Patrickt said:
I think President Obama has pretty well established that he's above the law and can do as he pleases.
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He like other Presidents used his executive powers. He like others had it overturned by the USSC.
 
He can pardon them for criminal actions, but he cannot unilaterally grant them residency or citizenship.

He also can't completely put a stop to all current deportation proceedings.

If any President tried to pardon 11 million people for immigration violations, there'd be a national movement to amend the Constitution to limit or eliminate the pardon powers of the President.
 
Visbek said:
He can pardon them for criminal actions, but he cannot unilaterally grant them residency or citizenship.

He also can't completely put a stop to all current deportation proceedings.

If any President tried to pardon 11 million people for immigration violations, there'd be a national movement to amend the Constitution to limit or eliminate the pardon powers of the President.
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That certainly doesn't mean President Obama won't do it. We should have learned when President Clinton pardoned Marc Rich while Marc Rich's family was shoveling money into Hillary Clinton's campaign and put some restrictions on presidential pardons but we let it slide.
 
VanceMack said:
But the law doesnt work that way. If they are 'pardoned' it would be for nothing more than being here illegally in the first place. That doesnt change the fact that they are here illegally. You MUST follow Constitutionally law. There is a reason we have immigration law. On a grand scale its the same reason you have doors with locks and fences on your own property. Even with the best of intentions there MUST be a maintenance of population, health standards, availability of jobs, etc. There must be law. there must be order. Not from a punitive sense but from a logical and logistical sense.
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Most of them come here for work so that they can provide for their families either back home or here when their family comes with them. When they buy things with the money they earn they pay taxes on those things which then goes to the city or state that they live just like your taxes. They are contributing to their community in many ways. Rounding them up like cattle and sending them back is inhumane in my personal opinion and not in the spirit of community. Poverty and hardship will make people do desperate things such as crossing deserts in their country to work on a ranch in ours all for much less money than most Americans will make at a fast food restaurant. If I were to look at logically i'd say it's logical to want to try to improve your life by going where there is more opportunity. We'd all do the same thing if in their shoes. I think that most Americans take their lives for granted and where blinders when it comes to the plight of others across our own border. We must follow law, but reasonable law, and we must also be empathetic to others and help in any way we can.
 
JANFU said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/06/opinion/can-obama-pardon-millions-of-immigrants.html?_r=0

Can Obama pardon Illegal Aliens Yes
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Sure...why not. After all, Reagan did it in 1986, right?

Okay, I was kidding. Reagan didn't pardon illegal aliens but he did sign the 1986 Immigration reform bill that granted amnesty to hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens. And if you consider coming into the country illegally as a violation of standing law, then yes, he pardoned alot of lawbreakers. So, in that since, if Congress presents Pres. Obama with an immigration reform bill that authorizes amnesty, then yes, he'd be granting pardons to illegal aliens, too.
 
Excon said:
No it actually doesn't.

The President has unquestionable pardon powers for crime that have been committed.
But he can not pardon a person for a crime that they commit in the future.

He would have to pardon them and at the same time grant amnesty or citizenship, which he isn't going to do.

And if he went ahead and did this, it just shows he doesn't care one bit about this country or it's laws.
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He isn't going to do it because he can't. Granting pardons to millions of illegal aliens would only clear their record of "illegal entry into the country," but it wouldn't change their citizenship status. That can only be done via application and, thus, individual supplication even if done en-mass. In short, they'd still have to take the oath officially and be sworn in as U.S. citizens. Can't happen even if the POTUS opted to go the pardon route.

So, even though a pardon wouldn't absolve anyone of future crimes they may commit, it would absolve illegal aliens of that one crime they have committed (as interpreted by some) of unlawful entry. But that wouldn't prevent them from being deported at a future date should any one of them break the law again because none would have gotten over the U.S. citizenship barrier from the pardon alone.
 
JANFU said:
I realize he cannot pardon in advance.
If he did pardon them, would it open them up to legally applying for Citizenship?
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Yes, of course. But they could do that now if they wanted. Problem here, of course, is many illegal aliens (particularly those from Mexico and Cuba) are afraid to come out from the shadows to apply out of fear of deportation or can't afford the $2000-plus to apply. Now, granting them a pardon would provide a way for all illegals to come forward and be counted today, but it won't change much for them tomorrow.
 
JANFU said:
I am not familiar with your laws. I was also reminded of Carters pardon. I had forgotten about that.
As I stated, I thought it had an interesting take.
Now posting an OP and expectations that you have from that Member, that does not always occur. And with me will not always occur.
I post articles that may be of interest and ripe for a good discussion.
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Former Pres. Carter was able to pardon draft dodgers from the Vietnam War because he had their names on a list and they were U.S. citizens. So, that one was easy enough to do.

Granting a pardon to millions of illegal aliens whom the POTUS likely doesn't even know and likely cannot get around the "future/other crimes" aspect outside of their illegal entry into the country would be a very tall order and probably wouldn't pass constitutional muster. He's better off sticking with the framework from the DREAM Act (pardon limited to illegal border entry only, not expired work/tourist/student VISAs or any other minor crimes or felonies) and leave it at that because illegal entry and hiding in the shadows as a result are the only things he has absolute control over. He'd have an extremely difficult time getting past the rest.
 
wanderlust said:
Most of them come here for work so that they can provide for their families either back home or here when their family comes with them. When they buy things with the money they earn they pay taxes on those things which then goes to the city or state that they live just like your taxes. They are contributing to their community in many ways. Rounding them up like cattle and sending them back is inhumane in my personal opinion and not in the spirit of community. Poverty and hardship will make people do desperate things such as crossing deserts in their country to work on a ranch in ours all for much less money than most Americans will make at a fast food restaurant. If I were to look at logically i'd say it's logical to want to try to improve your life by going where there is more opportunity. We'd all do the same thing if in their shoes. I think that most Americans take their lives for granted and where blinders when it comes to the plight of others across our own border. We must follow law, but reasonable law, and we must also be empathetic to others and help in any way we can.
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While I understand your perspective and can certainly sympathize with anyone who comes to America in search of a better way of life, I think VanceMack is right on this one. Even if the POTUS did pardon every illegal alien in this country, he still couldn't make them U.S. citizens. That isn't within is Constitutional enumerated power to do. However, if he did choose to go this route he'd have to do so in a way that:

1) limited the scope of the crimnal act (i.e., illegal border crossing with no other crimes or misdemeaners committed); and,

2) provided a temporary window of opportunity whereby every illegal alien would be allowed to apply for U.S. citizenship (i.e., the next 24-72 hours).

Otherwise, every illegal alien would rush to the nearest U.S. Consulate/INS office. (Of course, that would probably happen anyway, but at least with a timeframe INS could sort through the mess...:shrug:)
 
JANFU said:
Did you read thru the article?
It has it all there.
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I read the article and I didn't see anything that addressed Excon's point. Perhaps you could quote the portion that you think does?
 
Patrickt said:
That certainly doesn't mean President Obama won't do it.
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Yes, it does. Pardoning one person is nothing like pointlessly pardoning 11 million people. Please, get a grip.
 
Visbek said:
Yes, it does. Pardoning one person is nothing like pointlessly pardoning 11 million people. Please, get a grip.
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Please, quit drinking the Kool-Aid. President Obama commuted the sentence of a batch of felons serving time. He can do as he damned well pleases, legal or illegal, as he has been doing and if he gets reversed he can tell the leftists, "Well, I tried." He encouraged children to cross the border, scooped them up and off to secret facilities and we haven't heard what's happened with any of them.

So, please, open your eyes and get a grip or just admit you like what President Obama is doing and ask him to "stay the course."
 
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