Can fracking reindustrialize America?

[Jack Hays]

Soooooo, the cost is externalized. If you knew what that meant you wouldn't be so blithe about how cost effective fracking is, and how expensive renewables are.

But you don't understand economic fundamentals.

Ah, but I do, and I think the means I described are appropriate.

 

[Papa bull]

Not quite. The problem is studies show that leaking occurs at the interface of the surface with the drilling/injection systems

It's a solvable problem. But it must be addressed and regulated, and the industry, not private landowners or the public, should pay for it.

I agree with all that. It should, however, be noted that spillage and leakage is not commonplace.

 

[poweRob]

Until I see Republicans lining up to buy property for them and their children to live in right next to fracking sites... I'll just consider it yet another bull**** nimby industry that they want to dump on everyone else.

 

[Jack Hays]

Until I see Republicans lining up to buy property for them and their children to live in right next to fracking sites... I'll just consider it yet another bull**** nimby industry that they want to dump on everyone else.

Please see Papa Bull's #148.

 

[Carjosse]

"Hundreds" may be too short. It might be thousands.

It will be phased out before it is ever needed and also isn't that what they estimate for oil fields that run dry tens years later.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Since your articles preceded the statements I cited, it's hard to see how they could be "in response." Just sayin' . . .:lamo

Thats not true on of the article takes a direct quote from what you posted.

 

[Jack Hays]

Thats not true on of the article takes a direct quote from what you posted.

Not possible without time travel.

 

[Northern Light]

It's pretty straightforward. The talking heads will try to obfuscate the facts but it doesn't change physical reality.



Aside from being inherently noxious, fracking poisons ground water.

 

[Jack Hays]

It's pretty straightforward. The talking heads will try to obfuscate the facts but it doesn't change physical reality.

View attachment 67155316

Aside from being inherently noxious, fracking poisons ground water.

Except that your graphic would need to be about three feet deeper. Fracking takes place about 10,000 feet below the water table.eace

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

Fracking need to be regulated, so that its costs are internalized (the companies pay for it, not the water users) and the chemicals the industry uses need to be researched and where appropriate, replaced with less toxic chemicals.

That said, fracking (which was developed by the Carter Administration's investment in energy research) has the potential to make this nation extremely wealthy and energy secure. That will not only lead to more general prosperity, but it will change our foreign policy. We can finally dump the autocrats in the Middle East, like Saudi Arabia, and follow a more principled support of democracy there. And it will avoid costly oil-inspired military folly like Bush's invasion of Iraq.

Wow, that is about the first even semi-factual and somewhat down to earth post I have ever seen from you joaq...

Wait a minute...

Okay, so who kidnapped the real jaoq, is impersonating him here on DP...?? Come on, nobody is going to pay any ransom, I can tell ya, so it seems a kinda lame grab....

Compliments if that is really you out there joaq...:thumbs:

 

[ReformCollege]

Until I see Republicans lining up to buy property for them and their children to live in right next to fracking sites... I'll just consider it yet another bull**** nimby industry that they want to dump on everyone else.

I'd buy land next to the fracking sites... EXCEPT IT COSTS TO DAMN MUCH....... Jeez you really expect your average joe to buy land that multibillion dollar oil companies are salivating over?

 

[ReformCollege]

It's pretty straightforward. The talking heads will try to obfuscate the facts but it doesn't change physical reality.

View attachment 67155316

Aside from being inherently noxious, fracking poisons ground water.

I like how you turn to a cartoon to prove your points. If you're going to argue fiction, you might as well not even argue.

 

[ReformCollege]

Soooooo, the cost is externalized. If you knew what that meant you wouldn't be so blithe about how cost effective fracking is, and how expensive renewables are.

But you don't understand economic fundamentals.

So how expensive would it be if that cost were internalized? Give us numbers.

 

[ChuckBerry]

fracking whose benefits that could lower our fuel bills.

...and reduce Russia's political power by making Europe less dependent on its gas in winter.

 

[ChuckBerry]

fracking (which was developed by the Carter Administration's investment in energy research) has the potential to make this nation extremely wealthy and energy secure. That will not only lead to more general prosperity, but it will change our foreign policy. We can finally dump the autocrats in the Middle East, like Saudi Arabia, and follow a more principled support of democracy there. And it will avoid costly oil-inspired military folly like Bush's invasion of Iraq.

It's the political implications of fracking that have imo the most far reaching consequences. I think the last major foreign policy hurdle we will have is Iran's nukes...once Israel is reasonably safe from such a widescale attack, we will be able to safely retreat into our watery fence and let the world go hang.

 

[poweRob]

I'd buy land next to the fracking sites... EXCEPT IT COSTS TO DAMN MUCH....... Jeez you really expect your average joe to buy land that multibillion dollar oil companies are salivating over?

Right. Everyone is lining up to buy property where u can set ur water on fire.

 

[ReformCollege]

Right. Everyone is lining up to buy property where u can set ur water on fire.

The people with money are, and the locals are cashing in. Btw, you could have set the water on fire 60 years ago just the same. Not related to fracking, but nice try.

 

[poweRob]

The people with money are, and the locals are cashing in. Btw, you could have set the water on fire 60 years ago just the same. Not related to fracking, but nice try.

Lol... That's interesting seeing how these fracking companies buy these locals giant tanks and ship in water for them. Also funny how they pay these locals off with a stipulation of signing a contract with a gag clause in it.

http://www.motherjones.com/blue-marble/2013/08/7-year-old-kid-fracking-gag-order

 

[ReformCollege]

Lol... That's interesting seeing how these fracking companies buy these locals giant tanks and ship in water for them. Also funny how they pay these locals off with a stipulation of signing a contract with a gag clause in it.

This 7-Year-Old Is Banned From Talking About Fracking

Kinda funny how that water has been undrinkable for over 60 years as I stated before. So they get free water shipped to them that they would've had to get anyways? Good for them.

 

[poweRob]

Kinda funny how that water has been undrinkable for over 60 years as I stated before. So they get free water shipped to them that they would've had to get anyways? Good for them.

Kinda funny how you believe the water was undrinkable for the last 60 years.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

...and reduce Russia's political power by making Europe less dependent on its gas in winter.

Exactly - which makes me wonder even more at the very vocal environmentalist groups over here who seem hell bent on opposing nearly all forms of energy generation that takes place on European soil.

Better for these groups that we have high fuel bills for everyone fuel poverty for elderly people who are afraid to put the heating on this winter as long as we aren't fracking / building nuclear power stations / becoming energy self-sufficient.

 

[PeteEU]

Exactly - which makes me wonder even more at the very vocal environmentalist groups over here who seem hell bent on opposing nearly all forms of energy generation that takes place on European soil.

Better for these groups that we have high fuel bills for everyone fuel poverty for elderly people who are afraid to put the heating on this winter as long as we aren't fracking / building nuclear power stations / becoming energy self-sufficient.

Problem with fracking is that it is not safe or environmentally friendly in ANY way and keeps us dependent on carbon fuels and that trifecta of facts will cause massive opposition.

Like it or not fracking causes earthquakes where there usually are none.

Like it or not fracking requires pumping hazardous chemicals into the ground and time and time again there has been leaks into the ground water. Yes it is denied, but I dont trust oil companies one bit... just ask Ecuador.

LIke it or not we need to get off the carbon fuel addiction we have. I would rather invest money in renewable or alternative (yes even nuclear) power generation than pump more money into a dying industry.. aka the coal and oil business.

In the end the anti-fracking people have the upper hand in most areas of the world. Just show water com-busting on TV and you as a pro-fracker have lost.

 

[DVSentinel]

Maybe so, according to this author. At least it's a start. I think it's a very encouraging development, although the green lobby will be upset because it will become more difficult for renewables to compete.


How fracking is reshaping the U.S. economy

The booming oil and gas industry shows the power of the private sector, one writer argues. Outperforming other nations » eace

It might affect one industry. Overall though, until we have regulation and labor costs that make us competitive and desirable as a place for industry, then we will still see it moving away from us. As greater and greater numbers world wide become consumers of industry, then we will continue to see decreases as out products simply are not affordable compared to products produced elsewhere. Without major adjustments, we will slowly, maybe even moderately fast, see ourselves sink into insignificance.

 

[thinkforyoursel]

Oh yeah, talk to the multitude of folks who can no longer drink from their wells. Or better yet, we ought to bottle that well water and require that folks who support fracking drink it.

Fracking is like a company coming near to house to blast rocks and tell you your house won't suffer any damage. They do this for several weeks and say ...see ...your house is still standing. Several months later ...you find foundation damage, cracked pipes...or worst ...your property starts to sink.

The idea that they know ....fracking creates no environmental damage ....is such fart when this is one of the most un-controlled operation anyone can do.
You have a stable environment that took 1000's of years to get that way ...and you go in and disrupt this situation and claim ...you know what will happen ....only an idiot would believe that!!

It's a well played out strategy they run around and destroy the environment and send the lawyers and their paid cronies to dispel arguments that there is no problem. And one of their biggest ally is time ......the real damage they left behind will be apparent ...but it will take time. By then they are long gone ...and will find some scape-goat ...some other event to shift the blame.

Now ...if the Corporations can do this in America ...just imagine ...just imagine what they do over-seas where there is no regulation and no cameras or news media around.