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Can anything bring Israel and Palestinian to peace?

Can Israel and Palestinian find Peace?

  • Yes

    Votes: 8 47.1%
  • No

    Votes: 8 47.1%
  • Dont Know

    Votes: 1 5.9%

  • Total voters
    17
  • Poll closed .

cherokee

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Post what you think may or may not work.
 
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Kandahar

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Sharon's plan seems to be working beautifully. Finish building the fence along whatever borders Israel wants, pull out of the crappy areas Israel doesn't want, keep the Palestinians out of Israel, and if the Palestinians don't like it tough ****.

Suicide attacks have been down dramatically since the unilateral strategy began.
 

Calm2Chaos

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A 5 megaton blast over the Hamas capitol buillding
 

DeeJayH

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I voted no because i believe IF it ever happened it will be a long way off
the Hamas victory was not the right direction for palestine to take
but atleast it was a democratic election
 

jfuh

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I highly doubt it. Israel itself is a state based not on ethnicity, but on religion. That wouldn't be so bad if those nations surrounding Israel were not a completely different religion that have been at war for essentially the last 2000 years. So even if, big if, there were no more anti-semantic fanatics that strap bombs to themselves and blow up school buses, the Israeli side would still have such fanatics because they are a religious state.
This whole wall building thing will only make matters worse.

So no, I don't think there can be any peace in the forseeable future.
 

Kandahar

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jfuh said:
I highly doubt it. Israel itself is a state based not on ethnicity, but on religion. That wouldn't be so bad if those nations surrounding Israel were not a completely different religion that have been at war for essentially the last 2000 years.
That's a myth. Since the birth of Islam, there has been a lot more Christian-Jew and Christian-Muslim animosity, than Jew-Muslim animosity. Historically, Muslims have been very tolerant of Jews living amongst them. That animosity has mostly come about since the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, and especially since the creation of Israel as a modern state.

jfuh said:
So even if, big if, there were no more anti-semantic fanatics that strap bombs to themselves and blow up school buses, the Israeli side would still have such fanatics because they are a religious state.
Israel doesn't have people strapping bombs to themselves to blow up Palestinian school buses. These Israeli fanatics are largely a figment of the imagination of Palestinian sympathizers.

jfuh said:
This whole wall building thing will only make matters worse.
Suicide bombings have declined significantly since the construction of the wall, and Israel has pulled completely out of Gaza. It seems to me that the wall is working quite well, where both negotiations and occupation have failed.
 

jfuh

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Kandahar said:
That's a myth. Since the birth of Islam, there has been a lot more Christian-Jew and Christian-Muslim animosity, than Jew-Muslim animosity. Historically, Muslims have been very tolerant of Jews living amongst them. That animosity has mostly come about since the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, and especially since the creation of Israel as a modern state.
It's true that muslims have been generally very tolerant of those living amongst them who are of a varied religious belief. But the issue is of fundamentalists that will do anything to derail peace. That's really something that is prevalent on both sides of the wall.


Kandahar said:
Israel doesn't have people strapping bombs to themselves to blow up Palestinian school buses. These Israeli fanatics are largely a figment of the imagination of Palestinian sympathizers.
No Israel does not, Israel directly sends over tanks and gunships with high collateral damage.
But more importantly Israel has fanatics on it's own side that are willing to assasinate presidents for thier cause, sound familiar?

Kandahar said:
Suicide bombings have declined significantly since the construction of the wall, and Israel has pulled completely out of Gaza. It seems to me that the wall is working quite well, where both negotiations and occupation have failed.
Israel's complete withdraw from Gaza is a good start.
But here's my issue with the Wall. It creates a pshycological impact on those on the otherside as well as a very false sense of security for those within. Any wall can be overcome given time and determination, both of which a fanatic has plenty of.
 

Kandahar

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jfuh said:
It's true that muslims have been generally very tolerant of those living amongst them who are of a varied religious belief. But the issue is of fundamentalists that will do anything to derail peace. That's really something that is prevalent on both sides of the wall.
Even if you think that the Israeli conservatives are extremists, I'd hardly call them fundamentalists. Israel is a fairly secular society.

jfuh said:
No Israel does not, Israel directly sends over tanks and gunships with high collateral damage.
Do the Israelis try to kill as many civilians as possible to further their goals? Isn't the success of those missions measured in whether the goals were achieved and how FEW civilians were killed, rather than how MANY?

jfuh said:
But more importantly Israel has fanatics on it's own side that are willing to assasinate presidents for thier cause, sound familiar?
Ok, so you've shown that there's at least one fanatic in Israel. Is there any country in the world where that's not the case?

jfuh said:
Israel's complete withdraw from Gaza is a good start.
But here's my issue with the Wall. It creates a pshycological impact on those on the otherside as well as a very false sense of security for those within. Any wall can be overcome given time and determination, both of which a fanatic has plenty of.
One would think that to be true (I certainly did when the construction began). But you can't argue with results; the wall has indeed succeeded in keeping suicide bombers out, so perhaps it's not as easy to overcome as people think.

The potential psychological impact on Palestinians not being able to travel to the infidel's territory, is greatly outweighed by the Israelis' right to not be blown up.
 

jfuh

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Kandahar said:
Even if you think that the Israeli conservatives are extremists, I'd hardly call them fundamentalists. Israel is a fairly secular society.
Surprisingly in many more ways then the US today, yes I agree. But nevertheless a nation based on the Jewish faith. Thus innately it has reserves of other religious beliefs which in itself is problematic. The point is there are fundamentalists on both sides that do not care for peace.

Kandahar said:
Do the Israelis try to kill as many civilians as possible to further their goals? Isn't the success of those missions measured in whether the goals were achieved and how FEW civilians were killed, rather than how MANY?
I completely agree that the methodology is different. However the effect is the same, innocents are killed. Assault rifles and heavy explosives just do not work very well in preventing collateral damage. Sadly unless the bombing stop Israel will have no choice but to send over more troops, and the more troops deployed the more hatred for Israel would rein in Palestine.


Kandahar said:
Ok, so you've shown that there's at least one fanatic in Israel. Is there any country in the world where that's not the case?
I don't think of the relevance of the absolute number, but more of the relative density of this hatred and extreemism. You have soo many ppl in such a small confined space, literally, yet there is so much hatred on both sides, any long time peace will be very difficult.

Kandahar said:
One would think that to be true (I certainly did when the construction began). But you can't argue with results; the wall has indeed succeeded in keeping suicide bombers out, so perhaps it's not as easy to overcome as people think.
The results today are indeed inarguable. However, as with any relationship, you must always look long term. It will only be a matter of time before assholes packing explosives find a method to get across. I mean these extreemists are for the complete erradication and total annihalation of Israel. They're also very patient and have nothing else better to do.

Kandahar said:
The potential psychological impact on Palestinians not being able to travel to the infidel's territory, is greatly outweighed by the Israelis' right to not be blown up.
Wouldn't you agree though that the root of the problem lies directly at the psychie of the Palestinians? As you say, they look at Israel as the infidels territory.
Honestly I don't know what's so holy about the "holy land" nothing but blood shed for the last 2000 yers.
 

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Sure,

A 500 megaton bomb would bring peace to any place in the world. Just look at what we did for Japan!:blowup:
 

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Saboteur said:
Sure,

A 500 megaton bomb would bring peace to any place in the world. Just look at what we did for Japan!:blowup:
How about a little maturity, please?
 

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vergiss said:
How about a little maturity, please?
and yet, despite your view, a good point was raised
look at what has happened to Japan since it lost WW II
 

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I'm waiting for someone to recognize the demise of the "root cause" myth - namely that the violent palestinians will keep fighting till they get a state. Now the worst of them have taken power in their own country, and have not changed their "destroy israel" charter a whit. The answer to the OP question is no, short of the destruction of the state of israel. This has been obvious for a very long time - why do people have such difficulty grasping it?
 

cherokee

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Ok so we have Building a wall and a Nuke. Hmm not many possibilities.

With the Hammas winning power and the amount of extremist Jewish groups rising this can only spell more death. There has to be a solution that everyone can live with.
I think we can tell that the Arabs are not going to do anything to solve this so either we as in the US and Europe do something or we allow it go on and on and on.
I understand we can’t go back into time to the British mandate.
But what could be an even deal to both sides?




Time line:

http://www.mideastweb.org/timeline.htm

An interesting reads.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_mandate


http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1138622556315&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull
 

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cherokee said:
Post what you think may or may not work.

I think Palstine and Israel need to be restructured.Palastine should be restructured into a whole country instead of a gaza strip and then on the other side of Israel a west bank.It makes no sense for a country to be divided.I think the Palastinians should exchange the Gaza strip with Israel for equal amount of land somewhere around the outside of the West Bank or exchange the Westbank for equal amount of land with the Israelis for land around the Gaza strip.
 

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vergiss said:
How about a little maturity, please?
Sorry I was a little peeved about everything last week...

My opinion on peace between Israel and Palistien is that both countries need to put their immature vendetta aside and just leave each other alone...

It's like a religious gang war.

I realize that they have done a lot to each other but it won't stop unless they just give it up.

Israel needs to back off of Palestien and Palestien needs to accept the fact that Israel is there and it's not going anywhere.
 

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Saboteur said:
Sorry I was a little peeved about everything last week...

My opinion on peace between Israel and Palistien is that both countries need to put their immature vendetta aside and just leave each other alone...

It's like a religious gang war.

I realize that they have done a lot to each other but it won't stop unless they just give it up.

Israel needs to back off of Palestien and Palestien needs to accept the fact that Israel is there and it's not going anywhere.

If the Palestinians drop their weapons, it will bt the end of the violence.
If the Israelis drop their weapons, it will be the end of Israel.
 

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Goobieman said:
If the Palestinians drop their weapons, it will bt the end of the violence.
If the Israelis drop their weapons, it will be the end of Israel.
What a load of bull
 

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DeeJayH said:
prove it TERRORIST-SYMPATHIZER
So now it's name calling.
You think that if Palestine blows up Israel that everying is fine and dandy?
Who's the terrorist sympathizer.
Lame attacks dj, really lame.
 

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Goobieman said:
If the Palestinians drop their weapons, it will bt the end of the violence.
If the Israelis drop their weapons, it will be the end of Israel.
and

jfuh said:
What a load of bull
jfuh -
could you explain your reasoning for that?
ted
 

jfuh

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Paladin said:
and



jfuh -
could you explain your reasoning for that?
ted
Simple, anger begets anger. If the palestinians go about and drop weapons on israel, Israel is going most likly going to need to bomb the hell out of all supporting arabs nations/organizations.
If Israel does the same, the nations/organizations would most likely send the same response.
 
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