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Can a free country like USA produce a good leader

RDS

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Bush screwed up for two terms. Obama is on the brink of failure. Sarah Palin will be a pain in the arse if she is voted as president in 2012.
 

bhkad

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Bush screwed up for two terms. Obama is on the brink of failure. Sarah Palin will be a pain in the arse if she is voted as president in 2012.
Bush didn't screw up for two terms and I prefer to give Obama three years and nine months before judging him a failure or not and Palin has said the presidency is not "on her radar" for 2012.
 

EpicDude86

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You're going to start a thread with that question, and then talk about Bush, Obama, and Palin? As if America hasn't existed or had leaders before 2000??
 

Korimyr the Rat

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Bhkad speaks wisdom. Don't judge a leader for his works until they're done.
 

RDS

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Bhkad speaks wisdom. Don't judge a leader for his works until they're done.
Well, I have read quite a bit in this forum. You mean nobody has passed judgement on Obama in this forum?
 

RDS

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Bush didn't screw up for two terms and I prefer to give Obama three years and nine months before judging him a failure or not and Palin has said the presidency is not "on her radar" for 2012.
Bush did not screw up? How did the $12T public debt come about?
 

RDS

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You're going to start a thread with that question, and then talk about Bush, Obama, and Palin? As if America hasn't existed or had leaders before 2000??
Lets focus on a 16 year horizon first.
 

bhkad

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That makes him a good for nothing leader.
He kept us safe for seven and a half years when everyone thought we'd be hit again after 9/11.
 

RDS

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He kept us safe for seven and a half years when everyone thought we'd be hit again after 9/11.
Well thats a consolation but you are not being honest.
 

PeteEU

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He kept us safe for seven and a half years when everyone thought we'd be hit again after 9/11.
Yea, but invading other countries that had nothing to do with 9/11 and killing 10s of thousands of people if not 100s of thousands.

Oh lets not forget doubling the US national debt, and allowing the biggest economic bubble to grow and grow until it popped like a zit wiping out all economic gains during his presidency..

Other than that he was a great president, spending most of his time on vacation...
 

bhkad

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Well thats a consolation but you are not being honest.
Before becoming unduly offended, what am I being dishonest about?
 

bhkad

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Yea, but invading other countries that had nothing to do with 9/11 and killing 10s of thousands of people if not 100s of thousands.

Oh lets not forget doubling the US national debt, and allowing the biggest economic bubble to grow and grow until it popped like a zit wiping out all economic gains during his presidency..

Other than that he was a great president, spending most of his time on vacation...
He prevented a greater Middle East War by invading Iraq.

The national debt was to put us on a war footing and keep us safe, and the zit burst from the aforementioned mortgage crisis GWB warned of.

And someone seems to have Bush Derangement Syndrome.
 

RDS

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He prevented a greater Middle East War by invading Iraq.

The national debt was to put us on a war footing and keep us safe, and the zit burst from the aforementioned mortgage crisis GWB warned of.

And someone seems to have Bush Derangement Syndrome.
Bush was fooled by CIA abt WMD in Iraq. Iraq was invaded cuz of WMD but no WMD was found in Iraq.
 

bhkad

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Bush was fooled by CIA abt WMD in Iraq. Iraq was invaded cuz of WMD but no WMD was found in Iraq.
When Saddam bluffed about having WMD's only a fool could cavalierly disregard the bluff.

That June 2000 speech was about weapons of mass destruction. In talking casually about that speech, Saddam began to tell the story of his weapons. It was a breakthrough that had taken five months.

"Oh, you couldn't imagine the excitement that I was feeling at that point," Piro remembers.

"And what did he tell you about how his weapons of mass destruction had been destroyed?" Pelley asks.

"He told me that most of the WMD had been destroyed by the U.N. inspectors in the '90s. And those that hadn't been destroyed by the inspectors were unilaterally destroyed by Iraq," Piro says.

"So why keep the secret? Why put your nation at risk, why put your own life at risk to maintain this charade?" Pelley asks.

"It was very important for him to project that because that was what kept him, in his mind, in power. That capability kept the Iranians away. It kept them from reinvading Iraq," Piro says.

Before his wars with America, Saddam had fought a ruinous eight year war with Iran and it was Iran he still feared the most.

"He believed that he couldn't survive without the perception that he had weapons of mass destruction?" Pelley asks.

"Absolutely," Piro says.
Interrogator Shares Saddam's Confessions - 60 Minutes - CBS News
 
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PeteEU

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He prevented a greater Middle East War by invading Iraq.
Oh he did.. how exactly did he do that? By empowering Iran? Iraq was no threat after all.. So how exactly did he prevent a greater Middle East War.. stop Iran for going for the bomb? Lower the buying of arms in the Middle East?

The national debt was to put us on a war footing and keep us safe, and the zit burst from the aforementioned mortgage crisis GWB warned of.
Oh he did then? Why did he not do anything about it? I mean it is not like he and his party did not have total power for 6 of the 8 years he was in power and controlled Congress for at least 4 years before he got into office.... If he knew and the Republican's knew it was coming then why on earth did not do anything about it?

Why did he expand government, why did he double the US debt? Why did he as his first act as President put in place rules and regulation that prevent a free market on prescription drugs in the US? Why did he he sign bloated government programs after bloated government programs?

And someone seems to have Bush Derangement Syndrome.
Yea you. You refuse to accept that Bush was an utter failure as President in almost every aspect.
 

Sov

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The USA might seem "free" compared to Singapore, but that's not saying much. You can get a year in prison for chewing gum there. Is it run by good leaders? Bad babysitters maybe.

Edit: I forgot, they actually allow prescription gum there now. How gracious of them. :3oops:
 
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PeteEU

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The USA might seem "free" compared to Singapore, but that's not saying much. You can get a year in prison for chewing gum there. Is it run by good leaders? Bad babysitters maybe.
Depends on what people think "free" is.. there lacks a definition in this thread :)

Singapore has a more free and friendly business sector than the US for example last I looked.

Rankings - Doing Business - The World Bank Group
 

bhkad

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Oh he did.. how exactly did he do that? By empowering Iran? Iraq was no threat after all.. So how exactly did he prevent a greater Middle East War.. stop Iran for going for the bomb? Lower the buying of arms in the Middle East?
Israel wasn't going to do nothing with a 'Sword of Damocles' hanging over their heads by Saddam who'd tried to wipe them out before in 1991 and who had before pursued nukes. And if Israel had attacked Iraq it risked a wider general Middle East conflagration.

I'll leave it for someone else more knowledgeable than I to defend GWB's economic record.

But the things I said are unassailable.

He kept us safe, 9/11 and the GWOT happened and he warned us about Fannie Mae 17 times.

Great president.
 

RDS

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The USA might seem "free" compared to Singapore, but that's not saying much. You can get a year in prison for chewing gum there. Is it run by good leaders? Bad babysitters maybe.
We are a first world country with one of the highest per capita incomes. Las Vegas Sands wouldnt have invested $5 billion here under the leadership of babysitters.
 

PeteEU

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Israel wasn't going to do nothing with a 'Sword of Damocles' hanging over their heads by Saddam who'd tried to wipe them out before in 1991 and who had before pursued nukes. And if Israel had attacked Iraq it risked a wider general Middle East conflagration.
And they are going to leave Iran alone, a far bigger threat even back then? Israel were gonna attack Iraq you say.. says who? And what exactly would they attack? A few camels in the desert? And why would the rest of the Middle East give a damn about what Israel did to Saddam.. he was after all rather hated by most countries... I doubt Iran would come to save his ass..

But what did the little vendetta war do.. it empowered Iran to new heights and today Iran is a far bigger threat to Israel than Saddam and Iraq ever were.

I'll leave it for someone else more knowledgeable than I to defend GWB's economic record.

But the things I said are unassailable.

He kept us safe, 9/11 and the GWOT happened and he warned us about Fannie Mae 17 times.

Great president.
That Fannie and Freddie had next to nothing to do with the sub-prime market and the derivatives that lead to the whole melt down only shows how factually lacking your arguments are.
 

Sov

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Depends on what people think "free" is.. there lacks a definition in this thread :)
True. I just couldn't resist being snarky. America's War on Drugs is even worse than Singapore's War on Wrigley ever was.

Optimal freedom to me would mean having the right to do what one wills, provided that one does not limit others' equal right to do the same. This is radical in any existing country, not just Singapore.

Note: It's not legal to cane women in Singapore, only men. They really know how to take the fun out of everything! :(
 
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