Cameron bedroom tax failing big time.

[Infinite Chaos]

How about a single working person, living in a nice two bedroom property, either bought or privately rented, which they can easily afford?

They get a third reduction on their Council Tax bill, paid by the state.

The number of people who can "easily afford" a nice two bedroom property is quite small these days. The average house price in the UK is £242,415 and the average salary for men is around £31, 337 (£24,423 for women). Going by a simple mortgage calculator - that's not enough for many to buy those nice little properties that may exist.

Let alone have a council tax reduction for living on their own. From my viewpoint - the fact they are working means the state should be off their back. We need as many earning and productive as we can; living off the state shouldn't be more attractive than earning your own living.

 

[Baltim]

The number of people who can "easily afford" a nice two bedroom property is quite small these days. The average house price in the UK is £242,415 and the average salary for men is around £31, 337 (£24,423 for women). Going by a simple mortgage calculator - that's not enough for many to buy those nice little properties that may exist.

Let alone have a council tax reduction for living on their own. From my viewpoint - the fact they are working means the state should be off their back. We need as many earning and productive as we can; living off the state shouldn't be more attractive than earning your own living.

Come to the north of England where I live where a two bedroom house over the road fro me recently sold at auction for £55k without needing any major renovations.

 

[PeteEU]

Come to the north of England where I live where a two bedroom house over the road fro me recently sold at auction for £55k without needing any major renovations.

No one wants to live in the north of England so of course it is cheaper there

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Come to the north of England where I live where a two bedroom house over the road fro me recently sold at auction for £55k without needing any major renovations.

No one wants to live in the north of England so of course it is cheaper there

Well, I live in the North and have seen houses sell for less than £55k at auction - they are usually bought by landlords and property investors who then put DSS or jobless people in as tenants.
Usually there is the basic minimum of doing the house up done. Very few singletons (as I suggested before) will have £55K or thereabouts lying around to buy an auction house outright.

 

[Baltim]

Well, I live in the North and have seen houses sell for less than £55k at auction - they are usually bought by landlords and property investors who then put DSS or jobless people in as tenants.
Usually there is the basic minimum of doing the house up done. Very few singletons (as I suggested before) will have £55K or thereabouts lying around to buy an auction house outright.

Haven't you heard of mortgages?

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Haven't you heard of mortgages?

Your original point was about singletons who could "easily afford a nice two bedroom property."

How does your question refute anything I said? Mortgages have only recently become slightly easier to get but you still need quite a heft deposit. There are also fewer long term jobs which would have banks falling over themselves to offer mortgages for.

 

[gunner]

Your original point was about singletons who could "easily afford a nice two bedroom property."

How does your question refute anything I said? Mortgages have only recently become slightly easier to get but you still need quite a heft deposit. There are also fewer long term jobs which would have banks falling over themselves to offer mortgages for.

I'm in the process of moving and pretty much all mortgages require a 25% deposit, now. I'm lucky enough to have plenty of equity, but those 'first timers' look to be looking to the bank of mum and dad, the lucky ones that is.

Paul

 

[Oftencold]

Exclusive: 50,000 people are now facing eviction after bedroom tax - UK Politics - UK - The Independent





Basically if you have a family, with mother, father and 1 child, and have 3 bedrooms, then you get part of your housing benefit taken... taxed as punishment for having a room too many.

But on the flip side, the money went to give tax breaks to the uber wealthy! So what if people are being pushed into homelessness in the run up to winter. They will just die in the cold weather and become less of a burden for their rich benefactors!

The coalition government are idiots..

Tell the folks to call their extra room "Islamic Meditation Chambers." I'll bet that they can even get an official subsidy for that.

 

[Baltim]

Your original point was about singletons who could "easily afford a nice two bedroom property."

How does your question refute anything I said? Mortgages have only recently become slightly easier to get but you still need quite a heft deposit. There are also fewer long term jobs which would have banks falling over themselves to offer mortgages for.

Up until 2008 mortgages were pretty easy to get on low rates so we have the situation that people are living alone in nice two bedroom houses, with low repayments, having their council tax subsidised by the tax payer.

Until a couple of years ago I lived alone in a two bed house but ended up having a friend in need move in temporarily and we decided we enjoyed sharing so he stayed.

This lost me my council tax rebate.

I'm not plucking facts out of the air here, there are plenty of single home owners who are living quite comfortably on their earnings in properties larger than they need who have a third of their CT paid by the state.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

-- I'm not plucking facts out of the air here

Jut making a mountain out of a molehill..

--there are plenty of single home owners who are living quite comfortably on their earnings in properties larger than they need who have a third of their CT paid by the state.

Several issues thrown in here to desperately make a case.
1- we are not yet a communist state where the state decide who will live in what house.
2- If someone single can afford a large house then they can choose to buy one, they pay single person's council tax. If someone single can only afford a small cheap house then they can choose to buy one, they pay single person's council tax. Single person's council tax counts whether you are a multi-millionaire living by yourself or a nurse living by yourself.
3- Tax rebates for single people counts also if anyone else in the house is
- An apprentice studying for a recognised qualification.
- A young person (under 25) in approved training.
- A full-time student (attending university or college, or under the age of 20 and studying A levels or their equivalent).
- An 18 or 19-year-old in full-time education.
- A student nurse.

4 - Equally, single person tax rebate counts if anyone else in the house is -
- a resident hospital patient.
- a person living in a care home.
- a person who is severely mentally impaired.
- a person staying in hostels or night shelters.
- a carer (providing at least 35 hours care a week) if they are not the main resident’s husband, wife or civil partner.
- a prisoner.
- a monk or a nun.
- a member of visiting forces.
- an individual with diplomatic privileges and immunities.

Most UK citizens know this and understand this, why is this such an issue if not some strange jealousy that you have to pay council tax because your working friend lives with you? He or she probably also pays rent. If not you because you are a saint, then other people in similar situations will be...

 

[Baltim]

Jut making a mountain out of a molehill..



Several issues thrown in here to desperately make a case.
1- we are not yet a communist state where the state decide who will live in what house.
2- If someone single can afford a large house then they can choose to buy one, they pay single person's council tax. If someone single can only afford a small cheap house then they can choose to buy one, they pay single person's council tax. Single person's council tax counts whether you are a multi-millionaire living by yourself or a nurse living by yourself.
3- Tax rebates for single people counts also if anyone else in the house is
- An apprentice studying for a recognised qualification.
- A young person (under 25) in approved training.
- A full-time student (attending university or college, or under the age of 20 and studying A levels or their equivalent).
- An 18 or 19-year-old in full-time education.
- A student nurse.

4 - Equally, single person tax rebate counts if anyone else in the house is -
- a resident hospital patient.
- a person living in a care home.
- a person who is severely mentally impaired.
- a person staying in hostels or night shelters.
- a carer (providing at least 35 hours care a week) if they are not the main resident’s husband, wife or civil partner.
- a prisoner.
- a monk or a nun.
- a member of visiting forces.
- an individual with diplomatic privileges and immunities.

Most UK citizens know this and understand this, why is this such an issue if not some strange jealousy that you have to pay council tax because your working friend lives with you? He or she probably also pays rent. If not you because you are a saint, then other people in similar situations will be...

Actually I'm not jealous that I've lost the rebate, I think it's perfectly fair.

The point I'm trying to make is that you seem to think it's okay to target the poorest in society and make them even poorer while those who can afford to pay full CT (even multi millionaires) are subsidised if they're single/live alone or with people who don't contribute.

I personally believe CT should be means tested (which would have disqualified me from receiving it even when living alone) to avoid pushing the poorest in society further into poverty.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

-- The point I'm trying to make is that you seem to think it's okay to target the poorest in society and make them even poorer while those who can afford to pay full CT (even multi millionaires) are subsidised if they're single/live alone or with people who don't contribute.

That's a plain falsehood.

--I personally believe CT should be means tested (which would have disqualified me from receiving it even when living alone) to avoid pushing the poorest in society further into poverty.

Council Tax Support - there used to be something called "council tax benefit" for the very poorest; it's now called Council Tax support.

First you make false claims against me and then you raise doubt that you actually live in the UK otherwise you would know about Council Tax benefits..

 

[Baltim]

That's a plain falsehood.



Council Tax Support - there used to be something called "council tax benefit" for the very poorest; it's now called Council Tax support.

First you make false claims against me and then you raise doubt that you actually live in the UK otherwise you would know about Council Tax benefits..

Something that changed five months ago which I've not had to look into for over four years as I don't need or receive a reduction of my council tax due to not living alone, being on what would be considered a low income or receiving benefits.

Having looked further I also see it's a quarter reduction, not a third. The point still stands that single people are entitled to a reduction whether they need it or not.

And yes, I'm from Britain. Bradford, West Yorkshire, to be precise.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Something that changed five months ago which I've not had to look into for over four years as I don't need or receive a reduction of my council tax due to not living alone, being on what would be considered a low income or receiving benefits.
And yes, I'm from Britain. Bradford, West Yorkshire, to be precise.

Four years? Council tax and council tax rebates have been in place since 1993.. most people living in the UK the last 20 years would know about the rebates.

Having looked further I also see it's a quarter reduction, not a third. The point still stands that single people are entitled to a reduction whether they need it or not.

OK, to address the point you're trying to make - one person (whether a millionaire or a nurse) does not have the same net household income he or she would have if living with another person. The actual fact is that if two people paid £1000 council tax (and didn't fit into any rebate band) and one moved out - the single person left does not pay £500 afterwards but approximately £800. The rebate for being single is still more of a penalty on being single than it is for living with someone else. The general idea being a reward for families staying together whereas you're seeing it as some ludicrous reward for living on your own.

 

[Baltim]

Four years? Council tax and council tax rebates have been in place since 1993.. most people living in the UK the last 20 years would know about the rebates.

Actually, the change I was referring to were the changes made in April 2013 where CT benefit was changed to CT reduction.

OK, to address the point you're trying to make - one person (whether a millionaire or a nurse) does not have the same net household income he or she would have if living with another person. The actual fact is that if two people paid £1000 council tax (and didn't fit into any rebate band) and one moved out - the single person left does not pay £500 afterwards but approximately £800. The rebate for being single is still more of a penalty on being single than it is for living with someone else. The general idea being a reward for families staying together whereas you're seeing it as some ludicrous reward for living on your own.

you really have got me all wrong. I have no issue with people who need the benefit/reduction if they need it.

My issue is with the fact that there aren't enough smaller properties to rehouse all the people who need to move. There are people on waiting lists practically begging to be moved into smaller homes and they're still being punished by having their benefit s reduced in spite of doing everything they can to improve their situation.

Also, on reviewing this thread, I noticed that the comment I originally responded to which caused you to then reply to me was posted by someone else and not you so I retract my comment about you being happy to see the poor made poorer and also apologise.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

-- Also, on reviewing this thread, I noticed that the comment I originally responded to which caused you to then reply to me was posted by someone else and not you so I retract my comment about you being happy to see the poor made poorer and also apologise.

Thanks for that.